Advice on new Mac editing setup please!

[Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm looking into buying a new Mac for my video editing and would really appreciate any advice. 

 

Being budget minded, if I was just starting out I'd be seriously considering a PC, but I've never owned anything other than a Mac (G4 in 2001 was my first) - and I'm actually very keen on FCPX. So I'm definitely looking at Macs only.

 

I've been editing on a MacBook Pro for the last several years, but it's now way too slow for my recently increased workload. Having done a bit of research, I'm pretty sure I'm going for a desktop setup this time - more bang-for-buck, and tbh my Macbook was plugged in 95% of the time anyway.

 

So my choice is between:

 

iMac 21.5"( customized: 3.1GHz i7 / 16GB RAM / GeForce GT 750M 1GB)

iMac 27" ( customized: 3.5GHz i7 / 16GB RAM / GeForce GTX 780M 4GB)

MacPro (the new one - lowest spec)

 

I currently only edit AVCHD and H264 (G6 and D5300) - no RAW - and it will probably be that way for the foreseeable future. I would like the option of using Resolve in the future but it's not essential, particularly right now.

 

The obvious answer is probably to buy the most powerful setup I can afford, but I think a Mac Pro is probably overkill, and with all the necesarry add-ons it's a bit out of my budget.

 

So I'm primarily looking at the iMacs. In terms of screen size I'm easy - I'd lean slightly toward the 21" plus a 2nd monitor, but 27" alone would be fine too. I think it all comes down to processing power really ...

 

As I say I'll be mainly running FCPX (and one thing I'd really love is for my new mac to rip through Neat Video rendering). Can anyone help with my decision? Will the extra processing 'oomph' (i7 and graphics card) of the 27" described above be of very great benefit? Ability to run Resolve smoothly would be a bonus but not an essential.

 

One final note - all 4TB of my external drives are Firewire. Will performance suffer a lot from not having Thunderbolt drives, or is it feasible to get by with my old FW's until I can afford a few new HDs?

 

Any advice or experience greatly appreciated - thank you!

[chrisso]

Do the new iMacs have FW?

[Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1]

Do the new iMacs have FW?

No but there's a thunderbolt adapter that works fine I think

[Quirky]

Well, the Mac Pro would be cool, of course, but that same money could indeed be spend on something else, too. Having been using a 20-inch Cinema Display recently, I think my choice from those options (and probably my next machine) would be the 27-inch iMac, rather than two smaller screens, and then I'd use any change left for a HD toaster and fill it with a couple of big hard disks. 

 

I've been shooting with an AVCHD camera lately, but I never edit AVCHD directly. I always transcode the dodgy AVCHD files into ProRes 422 AVI format with a separate app, then add and organise those files along with possible audio tracks, stills and stuff, and then import it all into FCPX. I believe that will take some of the need for the raw processing power away, and make it easier for a less powerful machine. Mind you, for the time being I'm using the latest generation mini for my edits. Obviously a mightier mojo box with a faster graphics card would make things go faster and smoother, but it's still quite doable.

 

Same with the FW or even USB2/3 drives, they'll do just fine, but they just won't be as fast. The drive I'm using for the Final Cut Events and Projects folders is a Firewire 800 one. In other words, not having a Thunderbolt drive is not stopping you from editing, nor will the performance "suffer" because the lack of one. It just makes your workflow a bit slower, that's all. The more money you cough up, the faster your workflow will be. That's about it.

Well, according to my 2c, anyway.

[chrisso]

I'm working with FCPX, ProRes422 on a 2012 27" iMac and it's fine.

I do have a second screen I can calibrate (Eizo). And I use TB hard drives.

[Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1]

I should say that I do convert to ProRes (in FCPX) for editing important things, but I'd like to be able to edit AVCHD and H264 directly sometimes too, for personal stuff.

[skiphunt]

That's funny, I've been redoing my setup recently too. Only, I went the opposite way. Got tired of maintaining 2 systems, ie. laptop AND a 21.5 iMac dual monitor setup. Thought about just upgrading to the 27in iMac and getting rid of the Macbook Pro... but I do use some of the portability. I also like being able to have everything on one machine and do regular backups. It always seemed there was something I forgot to move from one machine or the other, etc. 

 

So, I just sold the iMac and bought a 27in thunderbolt display. My Macbook Pro is the 2.9 i7 13in that I bought a little over a year ago. I like the setup, very much but I may sell the MBP and get a refurbed 15in in a few months instead for the faster graphics card and retina display. 

 

The 27in thunderbolt has a hub built-in so I've got internet wired in for more speed, there's a Firewire 800 port, so I have my externals daisy chained, into the back, as well as a graphics tablet, etc. 

 

There's one split cable that comes out that I plug into the macbook pro for power and signal. I was using in clamshell mode, but now have the laptop on a small stand and use it's screen as a second monitor. 

 

The 27in also has another thunderbolt port, so I'll likely buy an external thunderbolt solid state that I'll use exclusively for anything video. Everything else will stay on FW. 

 

I like being able to sit at a large screen, have two monitors, have wired internet, etc. Then, just unplug the laptop and pick up where I left off somewhere else. I'm also running an app that makes quickly unmounting everything from the desktop easy (Jettison). No need to connect and reconnect all my peripherals, drives, etc. because they stay hooked up to the monitor. 

 

When I come back to the desktop setup, I just plug the cable back in and boom, I'm instantly back to a large monitor with a second laptop desktop screen and all my peripherals are available again. 

 

Haven't been doing video stuff in a long time, but I used to use Final Cut 6 for cutting short TV spots, and a few longer form things. Never was crazy about FCP, but it was what everyone was using at the time. 

 

Was planning on buying FCP X, but have read so many negative reviews from so-called "pros" who claim it's not good enough because they changed it too much from FCP 7, etc. But, I've read enough actual user reviews who aren't crusty editors stuck in their ways... that implies that FCP X may be just the perfect editing platform for me. I downloaded the 30 day trial to make sure it'll run ok on my MBP, and played around with some editing until around 2AM. Decided I freakin' LOVE FCP X now! It made perfect sense to me. I didn't even read any instruction or watch any tutorials other than the intro videos on Apple's site to get an idea where everything was. I'm definitely buying it. 

 

Tough call on the iMac vs MBP. If you never take it away from you... even to carry into the living room to continue using it while you're watching a movie, etc. then going dedicated desktop iMac 27in makes more sense. Faster and more stuff for around the same money as a moderately specced MBP.

 

So far, I'm liking what I have set up now. After adding a thunderbolt solid state drive specifically for video use, and possibly upgrading my MBP to a faster one in the next year, I think it'll be the best of both worlds for me.

[Axel]

Was planning on buying FCP X, but have read so many negative reviews from so-called "pros" who claim it's not good enough because they changed it too much from FCP 7, etc. But, I've read enough actual user reviews who aren't crusty editors stuck in their ways... that implies that FCP X may be just the perfect editing platform for me. I downloaded the 30 day trial to make sure it'll run ok on my MBP, and played around with some editing until around 2AM. Decided I freakin' LOVE FCP X now! It made perfect sense to me. I didn't even read any instruction or watch any tutorials other than the intro videos on Apple's site to get an idea where everything was. I'm definitely buying it.

 

I advise you to wait a couple of days. Now we have FCP X 10.0.9. Within the next two weeks, the new MacPro will arrive, and a new version will be sold, 10.1. 

 

If Apple continues it's policy - an update is free, an ungrade isn't - you paid full for an obsolete, non-updateable software.

 

And I doubt very much that it just adds the ability to use multiple graphic cards. The wish lists sent to Apple are long, and some things really should be done.

 

One thing rarely discussed is the possible integration of CinemaDNG. I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but it's not sooo unlikely, given the fact, that FCP X could play back CDNGs from the start - if only as image sequences in the timeline, with the duration of each frame set to "1". 

 

With tiny mpeg2 or mpeg4, the 'philosophy' of hot-swapping external Thunderbolt-volumes would be close to pointless. With having to encode ProRes proxies from raw in Resolve in order to access them for editing the simplicity of the FCP X workflow is gone.

[skiphunt]

I advise you to wait a couple of days. Now we have FCP X 10.0.9. Within the next two weeks, the new MacPro will arrive, and a new version will be sold, 10.1. 

 

If Apple continues it's policy - an update is free, an ungrade isn't - you paid full for an obsolete, non-updateable software.

 

And I doubt very much that it just adds the ability to use multiple graphic cards. The wish lists sent to Apple are long, and some things really should be done.

 

One thing rarely discussed is the possible integration of CinemaDNG. I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but it's not sooo unlikely, given the fact, that FCP X could play back CDNGs from the start - if only as image sequences in the timeline, with the duration of each frame set to "1". 

 

With tiny mpeg2 or mpeg4, the 'philosophy' of hot-swapping external Thunderbolt-volumes would be close to pointless. With having to encode ProRes proxies from raw in Resolve in order to access them for editing the simplicity of the FCP X workflow is gone.

 

I haven't bought it yet, and was thinking the same thing, ie. a new one is about to be released in conjunction with the new Mac Pro. But, usually Apple at least includes free upgrades to those who just bought the app within 30 days. 

 

Haven't bought the app and have added the cash to my Apple account, but figured maybe I'll just play with the trial version for 30 days and wait until the last minute to actually buy FCP until it the rumored update. 

 

The only thing I've worried about is they'll increase the price and I won't be able to get it at $299 anymore. That being said, I think even though some folks who edit all the time don't seem to like FCP X for some reason, I think it's absolutely brilliant and is the most intuitive editing app I've used to date. Will be happy to buy it right now, but would prefer not to have to pay for an update too right off the bat. ;)

 

To answer Matts question... I've betting the Mac Pro won't be a wise buy until at least the initial bugs get worked out. Apple notoriously gets early adopters to pay a premium for the latest release while having to also deal with all the first release bugs. I'd get a solid 27in' iMac now, or a hopped up laptop in my case... and wait for the rough edges to get smoothed out on the Mac Pro.

[Axel]

Imho the new MacPro is no big advantage for a typical DSLR-mpeg4 user. This only pays off if you have to deal with massive footage data. I have a MacPro Quad, early 2010. To update it to 4GB VRAM and 32 GB RAM would cost me ~ 700 € with third party hardware. For round about 1000 € I could have a Hackintosh with the power of the new MacPro - minus Thunderbolt. We don't like the idea, but on the other hand one thing is true: We pay a lot more for everything.

[Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1]

Yeah I've wondered about going down the hackintosh route - I'd certainly benefit from the savings and ability to upgrade. But the one thing that makes me happy to pay the premium on a real Mac is that I don't have to be a computer geek to use it as a pretty high-level editing workstation. Time is money too, and I like being able to focus more on the creative side of things. This is also a reason I like FCPX.

 

Axel, do you think the iMac 27" (customized: 3.5GHz i7 / 16GB RAM / GeForce GTX 780M 4GB) would also be overkill for DSLR mpeg-4?

[tehgeek]

Don't overlook the latest Mac Mini!

[Andrew Reid]

Don't overlook the latest Mac Mini!

 

No, DO overlook it. GPU just isn't very good compared to Nvidia GTX series and CUDA.

[Axel]

Axel, do you think the iMac 27" (customized: 3.5GHz i7 / 16GB RAM / GeForce GTX 780M 4GB) would also be overkill for DSLR mpeg-4?

 

No. 

[Ergo Zjeci]

Andrew we are waiting for ---> Complete RAW Video editing computer build guide by EOSHD Andrew Reid!!!!! 

 

(and for canon 85mm f1.2 mark 1 review as well)

 

PS: Please make one i just got my new 5Dmk3!!! '>   

 

 

 

Now i iam confused should i go iMac or Mac mini or hackintosh or normal PC with E cuda and so on ....

[Quirky]

 

 

Now i iam confused should i go iMac or Mac mini or hackintosh or normal PC with E cuda and so on ....

 

What exactly is confusing you? 

 

As a general rule of thumb, when you're doing something relatively heavy work like video editing on a computer, the mightier the machine the better. All the rest is up to you, your personal preferences, your budget and your personal taste. Make up your own mind based on those, don't let (or expect) other people (to) make it for you.

 

All the options mentioned, like a Mac Pro, 27-inch (or smaller) iMac, a mighty PC, etc. are feasible candidates, you just pick one that's most to your liking and is a best fit to your existing system. If you're a Mac guy with some existing OS X apps and stuff, go for an iMac or Mac Pro. If you're a Windows guy with Windows apps, go for a PC. Simple, isn't it.

 

As for the Hackintosh, I for one wouldn't recommend that as a serious tool for serious (paid) work or as a long-term reliable editing platform. Unless you're a hardcore nerd who loves to hack and tinker the hardware and software for the sake of it, and use the machine for your personal entertainment only, not for any business purposes. 

 

The PC hardware is ok, but I'd rather go for Windows and Vegas, Adobe Premiere etc. Or choose a real Mac with FCPX (or Premiere, etc). But if a Hackintosh, the KEXT tinkering and stuff fancies you, well, it's up to you.

 

As for the Mac mini, I wouldn't put it quite as B/W as Andrew did above, but obviously a mini is not an ideal machine to buy for video editing.

 

However, if you already happen to own a latest generation Mac mini and you wish to buy FCPX and start editing videos, there is no good reason why you shouldn't just buy FCPX. Basic editing is quite doable with it, with enough memory, just a bit slower.

 

Of course a mightier iMac, let alone a Mac Pro, would be better and faster, but the point is, you can start with your existing mini, and use it to earn money for a mightier machine, like the iMac, by doing great films, for example.

It ain't about the gear, but how you use them, right?  B)

 

I hope this helps with the confusion. 

[chrisso]

I would go with the most upgraded iMac you can. That's what I did a couple of years ago.

Regarding going with Mac in general, I'm not a tech-head and I find the Mac solutions are always plug and play - turn on and get working.

I'm aware the PC route is much cheaper and often more powerful.

As to FCPX, I find it does everything I need quite simply. I think Adobe Premiere is very popular, so maybe demo both.

[skiphunt]

I'm playing with FCP X using a 13in MacBook Pro i7. I believe it has the same graphics card as the MacMini which is an Intel Graphics HD 4000.  If I was going to mess with raw data, I wouldn't even bother with this setup. If I decide to do anything beyond working with compressed footage, raw, or anything beyond some creative grading, mostly straight cuts or standard transitions, or anything beyond some basic compositing, I'd likely at least sell off the MBP and get the most recent MBP with the GTX750 card. 

 

Mine with the HD 4000 card and the Mac Mini won't run Black Magic Resolve. I've read the brand new 13 inch retina's card will run Resolve, but it's extremely slow and glitchy. 

 

Really depends on what you want/need to do. At the moment, I have no need for anything beyond what I have now. If I launched on trying to edit a complete feature on my own, I'd certainly get the newest 15in Macbook Pro with solid state drive and maxed out RAM... at minimum. Or, a maxed out iMac similar to what Matt is speccing out. But, for the creative storytelling and/or art pieces I'd like to do more of, there's no reason I can see that I really need anything more than what I already have. 

 

I've read rumors before about possible external video boxes that could handle most of the graphics load externally via thunderbolt connection, so that you could theoretically do high end work controlling it from nothing but a stock Macbook Air. Seems I saw a proof of concept rig that they claimed worked, but I don't recall anything ever getting announced or making it to the market place. Has anyone else?

[Ergo Zjeci]

What exactly is confusing you? 

 

As a general rule of thumb, when you're doing something relatively heavy work like video editing on a computer, the mightier the machine the better. All the rest is up to you, your personal preferences, your budget and your personal taste. Make up your own mind based on those, don't let (or expect) other people (to) make it for you.

 

All the options mentioned, like a Mac Pro, 27-inch (or smaller) iMac, a mighty PC, etc. are feasible candidates, you just pick one that's most to your liking and is a best fit to your existing system. If you're a Mac guy with some existing OS X apps and stuff, go for an iMac or Mac Pro. If you're a Windows guy with Windows apps, go for a PC. Simple, isn't it.

 

As for the Hackintosh, I for one wouldn't recommend that as a serious tool for serious (paid) work or as a long-term reliable editing platform. Unless you're a hardcore nerd who loves to hack and tinker the hardware and software for the sake of it, and use the machine for your personal entertainment only, not for any business purposes. 

 

The PC hardware is ok, but I'd rather go for Windows and Vegas, Adobe Premiere etc. Or choose a real Mac with FCPX (or Premiere, etc). But if a Hackintosh, the KEXT tinkering and stuff fancies you, well, it's up to you.

 

As for the Mac mini, I wouldn't put it quite as B/W as Andrew did above, but obviously a mini is not an ideal machine to buy for video editing.

 

However, if you already happen to own a latest generation Mac mini and you wish to buy FCPX and start editing videos, there is no good reason why you shouldn't just buy FCPX. Basic editing is quite doable with it, with enough memory, just a bit slower.

 

Of course a mightier iMac, let alone a Mac Pro, would be better and faster, but the point is, you can start with your existing mini, and use it to earn money for a mightier machine, like the iMac, by doing great films, for example.

It ain't about the gear, but how you use them, right?  B)

 

I hope this helps with the confusion. 

Quirky first sorry for my bad english.

 

 I am not a professional DOP nor movie maker. I just want to explore the benefits from fantastic 5Dmk3 and ML 14 Bit RAW for no payed work just for enthusiastic work to pleasure my soul. In that order i want to have a smooth experience in post production since RAW workflow take a specific way to do that, i want a computer that can handle those operation as smooth as possible and since i am not a Oil mogul or not living in rich UAE country i do care if i spend 2-3k $ on a computer(apple or PC) and then realize that i made mistake with buying a laggy system which can barley process RAW workflow in post.

 

I have apple products all my life (powerbook / Power Mac / macbook pro / ipad / iphone...  as well a PC user all my life.. so for me its is not a problem of what System or Platform i will use. I just want to know if its worth to pay 2.5K for  new iMac or its better to get a PC with the right parts for 2K + 2x dell U2412M monitors for the same price..

 

The question is what system will bring better/faster results for processing RAW video in Post Production for about the same money and on some low/medium budget of 2-3k $.. so that i will not consume a lot of my time in post i rather go out and shoot.

 

And since a lot of you people already work with those huge RAW files and i want hear from experts what do you recommend, what not to buy ...or what would you go on with.

 

as for software i have try almost every program and i do not have any problems (Final Cut Pro, Vegas, avid, Adobe premiere CS, Lightroom, PS and so on ...)

 

Would like to try Davinci Resolve LUT ..

 

After i will get used to workflow ( with portable usb 3.0 HDD in my back pack  to transfer raw data from cf cards to HDD) and with some easy rig i will make some short 2-3 minute movies, and some Demo reels for my channel .

 

thank you

[chrisso]

You asked about the 2 x Dell monitors before and got good advice.

No point in trying to grade footage with two monitors that are cheap and can't be calibrated.