Best MFT backup / second camera body

[kye]

I'm looking for a second / backup camera body for travel.  

Main setup is GH5, 7.5mm 17.5mm and 42.5mm MFT primes, and the Rode VMP+.  Second camera is a Sony X3000 action camera.  I shoot live action as well as time lapses with both.

My thoughts are that bringing a small MFT body would enable me to have a backup MFT camera should anything happen to the GH5 while travelling, and would also enable me to take time lapses while the X3000 and GH5 are busy.  For example, on a cruise ship when you're pulling into port it's great to be able to record time lapses from a couple of angles whilst also using the GH5 to take normal video.  

A second MFT camera could then record time-lapses (RAW images at native resolution are great quality) and if the GH5 has a heart attack then i'm not in paradise without a camera.  I'll also take my 14mm f2.5 lens in case the GH5 / 17.5mm lens (the main lens on the camera most of the time) end up falling out of a plane or whatever.  I'd also take a Rode Video Micro as backup audio.

Requirements are:

• Must be MFT as they're the lenses I have
• 1080 is fine, although I'd prefer higher quality rather than lower quality
• Built-in time-lapse functionality
• Still images in RAW would be great
• Slow-motion NOT required
• If it can take the same battery as the GH5 that would be spectacular (saves the hassle of extra batteries and chargers)

I'm wondering if I should go an old GH1 or something.  I know that the later G models have 4K but in all likelihood I won't be using the video functions, just the still images.  

I have a GF3 but it has no mic in, theres no time-lapse functionality (or way to trigger it remotely), and the 1080 isn't the best.  

 

.......and of course, smaller and cheaper is better....   

[Emanuel]

GX85

Apart the Japanese menus and to invariably miss the much professional interface design because simplicity is to excel the filmmaking norm matching a superior IQ quality of my P4K, I love my GX85 and my three GH1 units as well, great cams, will never sell not even one of them ; ) Yet on 1080 fence, my two GF5 units instead look like even smaller toys made of dreamlike and reliable standards anyway. Wonderful tiny capture device format factor BTW. MFT is the best format ever, let alone the incredible unique light glass itself when not for peanuts price : P

If you'd just want a 4K bargain to add to your arsenal, buy the G7 (I only have four of them! LOL : ) you'll be able to get in the range of 300-400 bucks.

 

On those words, I just try to resume the framework which grounds my MFT option route. I confess : D cams are an addition, so we need to buy good for affordable... : X

E : -)

 

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, Emanuel said:

GX85

I agree, unless having a mic input is really important then get a G85 or G9 depending on budget. 

If both are outside your budget, then just move progressively down the chain until something does fit your budget:
G7
G6
etc

4 hours ago, Emanuel said:

If you'd just want a 4K bargain to add to your arsenal, buy the G7 (I only have four of them! LOL : ) you'll be able to get in the range of 300-400 bucks.

Wow, why so many G7 bodies?

btw, I wouldn't pay that much for a G7 body in 2020! 

As Panasonic G85 bodies have now started to fall into the range of 300ish to 400ish

[BTM_Pix]

The best backup solution rather than just a camera would be an LX100 as it has a (very good) lens built in so will cover you in case a catastrophe befalls your other kit.

As its a standalone (and compact) solution you won't have to juggle with lenses either to be able to shoot two angles simultaneously and it has timelapse built in.

The downsides are fixed screen, no external audio, electronic only stabilisation and no specific flat profile like Cinelike D.

For their current used price of £250 and falling its great value for money and as has been mentioned on here frequently it a great lens with a free camera.

This is a good run through of it as travel camera.

In terms of its still capabilities, when shooting RAW in particular, it was involved in a supporting role comparison I did a while back between the SD Quattro and the Fuji X-T20 where it actually ended up more than holding its own.

If you want to have the flexibility to change lenses then the GX80/85 is the obvious alternative to the LX100 and adds tiltable screen, IBIS and Cinelike D with the easy hack but still lacks the mic input.

If you want all of that with a mic input then the G80 is the way to go and adds the articulating screen as well albeit at the cost of a larger but still pretty compact form factor.

If you want the G80 but aren't bothered about having IBIS and want to save some money, then the G7 is the one.

If its pure travel/backup/supplementary role then I'd personally go with the LX100 and for something that can be a more junior GH5 then I'd choose the G80.

And if you only need 1080p and want a left field MFT suggestion that will give you something entirely different then get an OG BMPCC

[Emanuel]

30 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Wow, why so many G7 bodies?

btw, I wouldn't pay that much for a G7 body in 2020! 

As Panasonic G85 bodies have now started to fall into the range of 300ish to 400ish

Bought new for a special price along a Black Friday a few years ago for multi-camera setup gigs such as live music shows... : -)

[ac6000cw]

I'd agree with most of the above suggestions (having owned most of the cameras mentioned) - personally I'd go with the LX100 or GX80/85 and take a small/cheap audio recorder with a mic input to workaround the lack of mic input on those. The GX80/85 has the advantage of USB charging so that's one less thing to take with you, and the video autofocus is much better than the LX100, if that matters.

If you are considering the GH1 then add the G6 to list - as Andrew commented in his review years ago, it's a 'GH2 redux' with good 1080p (up to 50/60p) plus a mic input,  lightweight, and it's very cheap secondhand (as are 3rd party batteries and USB chargers for them). No IBIS though so you need stabilised lenses or a tripod.

As a general versatile 'travel camera' I've taken a GX80 plus 14-140mm Panasonic zoom lens a few times - overall smaller than some 'superzoom' cameras, dual-IS, nice to use, EVF+tilt LCD, good 1080p and 4k video with excellent stabilisation and USB charging - what's not to like?

[IronFilm]

15 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

If you are considering the GH1 then add the G6 to list - as Andrew commented in his review years ago, it's a 'GH2 redux' with good 1080p (up to 50/60p) plus a mic input,  lightweight, and it's very cheap secondhand (as are 3rd party batteries and USB chargers for them). No IBIS though so you need stabilised lenses or a tripod.

I moved from a GH1 to a G6, it is just so much better, and the G6 is now so dirt cheap I'd struggle to recommend for settling for anything cheaper. (then again the G7 is only slightly more....  it is a slippery slope! Next step each time just being a little more)

[kye]

Thanks for replies so far, very useful.

The plan is that if something happens to the GH5 then I'll use the backup camera and then replace the GH5 when I get home, so the G85 and G9 cost way too much for a camera I will hardly ever use.

The G6 is sounding like the winner so far.

What about the GH2?  It's in a similar price range.

[newfoundmass]

30 minutes ago, kye said:

Thanks for replies so far, very useful.

The plan is that if something happens to the GH5 then I'll use the backup camera and then replace the GH5 when I get home, so the G85 and G9 cost way too much for a camera I will hardly ever use.

The G6 is sounding like the winner so far.

What about the GH2?  It's in a similar price range.

Do you need a mic input? Cause the GX85 (GX80 overseas) is a KILLER camera but it lacks a mic input. I got it as my c-cam for multicamera shoots. Combined with the 35-100mm f/2.8 it blows my mind. You could always attach a Zoom H1 or something for better audio. 

[kye]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

Do you need a mic input? Cause the GX85 (GX80 overseas) is a KILLER camera but it lacks a mic input. I got it as my c-cam for multicamera shoots. Combined with the 35-100mm f/2.8 it blows my mind. You could always attach a Zoom H1 or something for better audio. 

Don't need a mic input, and GX85 is much more expensive than I would want.

The idea is simple. Only having a GH5 and X3000 means that if the GH5 has an issue the only camera for the rest of the trip is the X3000.  A G6 gives a second angle for time-lapse, and means that I can film the remainder of the trip in a normal looking manner.

From that perspective a GX85 doesn't give me much better bang for the money.

[leslie]

hunting waaAy left of field but how about a canon m like the one mr reid reviewed ? its cheap and i do realize thats a 2nd and new eco system to play with. However  with magic lantern installed that would open up a bunch of possibilities.  no idea if your lenses would mount to it via an adapter. It looks quite small and with ml it would give you timelapse and and all the extra functionality that ml brings to the game. Main issues would be batteries and the aforementioned issue with mounting your lenses perhaps. food for thought

[kye]

18 minutes ago, leslie said:

hunting waaAy left of field but how about a canon m like the one mr reid reviewed ? its cheap and i do realize thats a 2nd and new eco system to play with. However  with magic lantern installed that would open up a bunch of possibilities.  no idea if your lenses would mount to it via an adapter. It looks quite small and with ml it would give you timelapse and and all the extra functionality that ml brings to the game. Main issues would be batteries and the aforementioned issue with mounting your lenses perhaps. food for thought

It's another whole lens system unfortunately, and I don't think mft native glass can be adapted so I'd rule it out based on that.

Anyone who has played with spectacular lenses on a lower resolution lesser codec knows that the image gains much more from the nice glass than it loses due to the lower resolution and codec.

In that sense I'd get better footage with 1080 h264 + Voigtlander primes setup than a >2k / raw output combined with lenses that serve no purpose other than backup and I selected primarily based on size, weight and cost.

You mentioning the eos-m + ML setup and @BTM_Pix mentioning the P2K aren't the first time I've thought about those in the last week though, and my recent discovery that the P2K has a very flexible time lapse mode has significantly raised my level of interest in it.

That is, if I can work out how much of a PITA it is to shoot with, thus my questions in the OG Pocket thread.

[newfoundmass]

41 minutes ago, kye said:

Don't need a mic input, and GX85 is much more expensive than I would want.

The idea is simple. Only having a GH5 and X3000 means that if the GH5 has an issue the only camera for the rest of the trip is the X3000.  A G6 gives a second angle for time-lapse, and means that I can film the remainder of the trip in a normal looking manner.

From that perspective a GX85 doesn't give me much better bang for the money.

I just got a GX85 for $250! You can find deals out there! 

I dunno, I'd just spend the extra money it'll cost you since you'd be getting 80% or so of what you have in a GH5. G6 is good but it's just hard to justify getting it in 2020.

Just looking at eBay the G6 and GX85 prices are nearly identical. 

$288 is not bad at all. 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F402036976231

[ac6000cw]

Based on a quick look at dealer prices for *used* G6, G7 and GX80 in the UK, the G6 is maybe £120-160 (but there are not than many listed), the G7 around £250 and the GX80 around £200. 

On that basis, unless you can find a really good deal on a G6 or you need a mic input, I'd go for a used GX80.

[mercer]

I don't mean to speak for Kye here, but I think you guys may be missing the point with his intentions. Remember Kye hacked apart a GoPro so he could attach an old D-Mount lens for an 8mm movie camera, so I think this second camera is as much about experimenting with a cheaper camera as it is about having a second camera to intercut with his GH5.

I'd say go with a P2K or a GH2... or an Alexa Classic.

[kye]

Just looking at prices for the G6 vs G7, and had the most wonderful epiphany....  numbers are bi-directional!!!

So, why shouldn't I get the G5?  (or G4..  or G3...)

My baseline is that it has to do time lapses internally, has to have focus peaking, and has to have better 1080p than my GF3.

21 minutes ago, mercer said:

I'd say go with a P2K or a GH2... or an Alexa Classic.

and @mercer moves into first place for most ridiculous suggestion!  hoorah!

My shortlist right now is the P2K, the GH2, and G-series of 6 or under.   And i'll just quietly do a bit of googling about the classic just to rule it out completely... 

[mercer]

Well if it has to have focus peaking, you can rule out the GH2, so it's a choice between the G6 or the P2K.

15 minutes ago, kye said:

My baseline is that it has to do time lapses internally, has to have focus peaking, and has to have better 1080p than my GF3.

 

[BTM_Pix]

6 hours ago, kye said:

That is, if I can work out how much of a PITA it is to shoot with..

For the purposes that you've described you want to use it for, the answer is a massive one.

The 2.88x crop factor will mean that those sweeping vistas from cruise ships aren't quite as sweeping.

The limitation in shutter speeds will hamper timelapses, particularly for lower shutter speed equivalents.

The power requirements for it will be a challenge as it eats internal batteries so you'll need to carry a bigger external solution, particularly for timelapse.

Don't get me wrong, its a fantastic camera and you should probably look at getting one anyway on its own merits, just that for this specific role its far less suitable.

With the BMPCC, RAW doesn't just describe its recording capability but also its shooting experience.

 

[kye]

38 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

For the purposes that you've described you want to use it for, the answer is a massive one.

The 2.88x crop factor will mean that those sweeping vistas from cruise ships aren't quite as sweeping.

The limitation in shutter speeds will hamper timelapses, particularly for lower shutter speed equivalents.

The power requirements for it will be a challenge as it eats internal batteries so you'll need to carry a bigger external solution, particularly for timelapse.

Don't get me wrong, its a fantastic camera and you should probably look at getting one anyway on its own merits, just that for this specific role its far less suitable.

With the BMPCC, RAW doesn't just describe its recording capability but also its shooting experience.

I think my primary interest in it is the legendary cinematic reputation it has, and the challenge / learning curve of replicating that look with my GH5.  I never managed to get anyone to shoot similar footage with a P2K, P4K and GH5, so it might be that I just need to buy one and then I can film whatever tests I want and do it that way.

In terms of it as a backup / time-lapse camera, does it chew batteries as fast when doing a time-lapse as it does when recording?  I would imagine that not having to process as many frames, not write the same data speeds, etc would save some battery life..

The other issues with it don't phase me as much, but I understand it's a very different shooting experience, and one that's valuable to wrap my head around.

I suspect for this I'd be happy with a G5 (or lower) as they'll do auto-everything (which is great for day-to-night situations) and the likelihood of me having to use the 1080p mode is pretty low as that means I need a second non-wide-angle camera.

[BTM_Pix]

5 hours ago, kye said:

I think my primary interest in it is the legendary cinematic reputation it has, and the challenge / learning curve of replicating that look with my GH5.  I never managed to get anyone to shoot similar footage with a P2K, P4K and GH5, so it might be that I just need to buy one and then I can film whatever tests I want and do it that way.

 

Well I can do the fist two for you but not the GH5

5 hours ago, kye said:

In terms of it as a backup / time-lapse camera, does it chew batteries as fast when doing a time-lapse as it does when recording?  I would imagine that not having to process as many frames, not write the same data speeds, etc would save some battery life..

The screen stays on so its basically marginal difference to running it for continuous video.

I've just done a 5 second of content time-lapse with a 4 second interval and it took 20% of the battery.

Because there is no power saving between shots, then changing that to an 8 second interval would have yielded more or less the same battery hit.

5 hours ago, kye said:

The other issues with it don't phase me as much, but I understand it's a very different shooting experience, and one that's valuable to wrap my head around..

For me, having to go into the menu to change ISO and WB are the biggest grumbles operationally.