New Canon invite for NAB 2012 unveiling - 'a technical briefing and dinner'

[Andrew Reid]

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First the Story Continues now the Next Evolution Is Here. This is an invite posted by [url="http://www.definitionmagazine.com/journal/2012/3/27/canons-next-evolution.html"]HD Magazine[/url] for NAB 2012. In it Canon asks a select audience to attend dinner, where they will unveil details of a new camera – widely speculated to be their debut 4K cinema camera to compete with Red.

[url="http://www.eoshd.com/content/7687/more-canon-invites-for-nab-2012-unveiling-a-technical-briefing-and-dinner/"]Read full article[/url]

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[TC]

Well, perhaps we should not get too worked up, given this is just speculation, but Canon seems to be hell-bent on alienating all their customers.

5d3 - crippled: deliberately soft video; omission of video specific and easy to implement firmware features such as focus peaking and zebra stripes; no clean HDMI out.  Owners and potential buyers disappointed.

Canon C300 - released with a very hefty price tag, yet a cheaper 4k camera may be announced while C300 pre-orders are still being fulfilled.  Owners potentially very, very annoyed.

4k camera - that this will be in an DSLR form factor seems bizarre.  4k is still currently a rather high-end format, requiring a lot of compute power in post.  A dedicated video form factor would make a lot more sense.

And what's with the staggered announcements?  1DX announced in October, but not yet shipping.  C300 announced in November, just shipping.  5D3 announced in March, shipping in March.  And now we learn of yet another announcement scheduled for April.  It just creates confusion. 

This would make more sense: uncrippled 5d3 at current price (target audience - the one-man-band hybrid photo/videographer).  C300 introduced at $8,000 (target audience - broadcast television professionals).  4k "C100" at $16,000 (target audience - cinematographers).  And everything announced at the same time and presented as a coherent range of cameras complementing each other.

[gene_can_sing]

I don't think the 4K EOS is going to undercut the C-300. I'm sure the C-300 will still probably have the better overall sensor and I have a feeling it might still have the better codec, and just be completely geared towards video production.

I doubt the 4K EOS will be RAW. Too early for that. Plus, it's suppose to be Full Frame, and in TV production, the 1.5x crop (which is the C-300) still rules. So different markets there.

I think the 4K EOS is geared towards people who want a good video camera that shoots stills like myself because I do a lot of timelapse as well. It probably will be a compromise type camera, no built in ND filters, probably a few less video features; it will take stills, but probably a lower megapixel, a more basic AF system and less bells and whistles on the stills side as well.

For me, that's a PERFECTLY fine camera since the video things I mostly use are Peaking and the Flip Screen. Clean HDMI would be really nice. But I hate shooting with an external monitor unless it's a more production oriented project where multiple people want to see the image. Out in the field on the Canon's, I find that Peaking mixed with the Z-Finder makes it really easy to get good focus without a huge monitor. If you can't get focus with a Z-Finder mixed with Peaking, you are freaking blind and should take up a different profession.

And for stills, I would even be happy with only 12 megapixels which is 4000x3000 pixels = 4K video and = 13" x 10" prints at 300 DPI, which is still a pretty damn large still.

As for the resolution, 4K isn't a huge deal in Film and TV production. The most revered camera of the moment is the Alexa, and that's 2K only, and doesn't it cost close to 50K?

So with the 4K EOS, you are going to get a more diluted all around camera (a better 5D3 for indie filmmakers), where as the C-300 is super specifically geared toward TV production and Cinema. Different markets

And Canon, please DON'T go back to a video camera body. After the freedom of DSLRs, I just can't go back to shooting with a lunch box that you cannot hand hold without a rig. I like that the camera is small, but I can make it as big as I want to make it.

If the 4K EOS is good, I will be the first person to order it. Just make sure it has true 1080p. That is my main concern. I know that sounds like a given, but with Canon, things are never a given unfortunately.

[moebius22]

It's going to undercut something.

[tttulio]

The dinner may turn out to be more interesting...

[Shawn_Lights]

4K does not automatically mean "better". I don't understand why people seem to think this. The C300 can easily be the better choice without 4K. How? Better DR, Low Light ability, built in NDs, XLR ports, monitor, etc.

The 4K Eos can have 4K and still not undercut the C300.

[bwhitz]

"The C300 can easily be the better choice without 4K. How? Better DR, Low Light ability, built in NDs, XLR ports, monitor, etc."

Ok I don't know why people keep thinking the C300 has some kind of "magic" sensor. It's not any more technically advanced than canon's other sensors. It just happens to bin the pixel on board because the C300's processor is SO OLD that it cannot do it on the software side. That's it. The 5DIII's and 1DX sensors already have more DR than the C300. They're newer technology. C300 even lacks gap-less micro lensing that even the 7D has.

But, yea, I do agree that the C300 will probably be better than a 4k DSLR for event shooting and TV. But, seriously, you're using built in ND's as an arguing point? That's like the stupidest point ever made. Who gives a crap about built in ND's. Just take the 15 seconds it takes to put a filter on... to think canon can actually trick people into paying $10k more for something as stupid as "built in ND filters" is amazing.

[Maxine]

C300's processor is obsolete, that's for sure. There's a lot of hype surrounding this camera.

[Andrew Reid]

The FS100 is almost a match for specs and image quality to the C300 despite being $11,000 cheaper and half a year older. $16,000 to $4500. Canon will need to justify this price somehow throughout the C300's 3+ year lifespan and I have no idea how they are going to do it. When newer cameras come along from Sony and Panasonic, some maybe as soon as NAB with better specs for less money who is going to buy the C300 at $16,000?

[Simco123]

So do you think a 4k Canon EOS dSLR is going to be more expensive than Canon flagship EOS DSLR the 1DX :o
A flagship camera is meant to be the most expensive unless the 4K EOS dSLR will takes over as the flagship which is unlikely.

[bradleyg5]

Canon 4d
45 MP
4k Video
5d III body
4500-5000$
Crappy AF
dual digic 5+

What do I win when I'm right?  8)

I have a feeling Canon will not release a EOS full frame camera that does not strengthen their stills line. But who knows maybe it will be a 4K EOS full frame that is the perfect video camera! You really think they'd charge less than 20 grand for that though?

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=Simco123 link=topic=482.msg3164#msg3164 date=1332993215]
So do you think a 4k Canon EOS dSLR is going to be more expensive than Canon flagship EOS DSLR the 1DX :o
A flagship camera is meant to be the most expensive unless the 4K EOS dSLR will takes over as the flagship which is unlikely.
[/quote]

Of course it will. Cinema EOS range is aimed at cinema people. Their gear costs serious money.

It isn't an Indie Cinema EOS range. Canon don't seem interested in us at the moment.

[Simco123]

It is still a dSLR in a 1DX body and aimed at stills people too just as the 5DIII can be aimed at cinema people.
Most likely a 4k without the bells and whistles of C300 otherwise they would put it in a C300 body.

[quote author=Andrew Reid - EOSHD link=topic=482.msg3170#msg3170 date=1333022316]
[quote author=Simco123 link=topic=482.msg3164#msg3164 date=1332993215]
So do you think a 4k Canon EOS dSLR is going to be more expensive than Canon flagship EOS DSLR the 1DX :o
A flagship camera is meant to be the most expensive unless the 4K EOS dSLR will takes over as the flagship which is unlikely.
[/quote]

Of course it will. Cinema EOS range is aimed at cinema people. Their gear costs serious money.

It isn't an Indie Cinema EOS range. Canon don't seem interested in us at the moment.
[/quote]

[eosjames]

[quote author=bradleyg5 link=topic=482.msg3169#msg3169 date=1333017192]
Canon 4d
45 MP
4k Video
5d III body
4500-5000$
Crappy AF
dual digic 5+

What do I win when I'm right?  8)

I have a feeling Canon will not release a EOS full frame camera that does not strengthen their stills line. But who knows maybe it will be a 4K EOS full frame that is the perfect video camera! You really think they'd charge less than 20 grand for that though?
[/quote]

I'll guess they will release the first '4k' cam with their Cinema line (and dinner :). So above the C300 and more $20K-ish. This 45mp is a great idea though since it would upstage the d800 with the 4K rez. But that would undermine some of the C300.....so maybe later? I don't know. But its an opp for them to charge premium since there will be the early adopters who don't mind paying max price.

[gene_can_sing]

I wonder if they are going to have some type of Codec increase on the C-300 to make it more enticing? Didn't the Sony F3 originally have an option to unlock 4:4:4 for an extra $3K? Now, I believe that option is included.

Seems like the C-300 should be able to easily to do something like that since it's based on Digic 5 (isn't it)?

If they do offer something like that, the C-300 would be viable for easily 3 years and have no conflict with the 4K EOS.

Philip Bloom says the C-300 is his favorite camera to shoot with and the dude owns like... every camera. So that has to say something about the C-300.