Alt Shoo Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I am aware of the strengths and weaknesses of these two, but if you had the opportunity to pick up one of these, what would you go for and could you explain why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 22, 2020 Administrators Share Posted January 22, 2020 I'd go GFX 100 Larger sensor IBIS Phase-detect AF Excellent 10bit codec, not too huge file sizes Very good EVF Much higher resolution stills Better ergonomics for video (i.e. tilt screen) and more features frontfocus, Alt Shoo and Juank 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1Dx III as I mostly shoot action so the fps for still and 60fps and 120fps for video are very important. Plus medium format has more limited lens selection and no real long lenses. MF lens are even more bulky than FF ones. Last but not least I have a good selection of Canon lenses. I did not check footage of the GFX 100 so not sure on the impact but is 10bit 4:2:0 and not 4:2:2 and max 30fps... 5 fps still is very slow for any action. Imo GFX 100 is a landscape camera if that is your primary goal then is probably a great camera and 1Dx is the wrong one. But anything fast paced or need long reach then GFX is not a great choice. If primary goal is video a C500 II or FX9 is a much better choice. Not really sure why your question because are so opposite these two cameras. Juank and Alt Shoo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinad Amir Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Id pick both Andrew Reid, Alt Shoo, IronFilm and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 55 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: I'd go GFX 100 Larger sensor IBIS Phase-detect AF Excellent 10bit codec, not too huge file sizes Very good EVF Much higher resolution stills Better ergonomics for video (i.e. tilt screen) and more features Yes that is why I am strongly considering it and for the “affordable” IMAX quality of the image. The only concern would be about the lenses, which I will refer to more in @gt3rs comment response. The stills aspect is also a great addition because I can also create a high quality billboard type poster with this camera. I’m just curious if Fuji will add more features to it in the future with firmware updates. Regarding the video quality, I’ve done some YouTube searches and the footage I’ve seen is really quite remarkable. It definitely has a look that I’m more aware of compared to other sensor formats. Very intriguing. 22 minutes ago, gt3rs said: 1Dx III as I mostly shoot action so the fps for still and 60fps and 120fps for video are very important. Plus medium format has more limited lens selection and no real long lenses. MF lens are even more bulky than FF ones. Last but not least I have a good selection of Canon lenses. I did not check footage of the GFX 100 so not sure on the impact but is 10bit 4:2:0 and not 4:2:2 and max 30fps... 5 fps still is very slow for any action. Imo GFX 100 is a landscape camera if that is your primary goal then is probably a great camera and 1Dx is the wrong one. But anything fast paced or need long reach then GFX is not a great choice. If primary goal is video a C500 II or FX9 is a much better choice. Not really sure why your question because are so opposite these two cameras. I’m not really concerned with higher frame rates because I don’t shoot much action. However my concerns are with the lens choices. I am aware of the limited options, but aren’t there converters which will allow me to use other lenses? Also regarding those converted lenses, there may be some vignette-ing? Even if using full frame lenses? And it does 10 bit 422 external. I don’t look at them as opposites, more like parallels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 43 minutes ago, Rinad Amir said: Id pick both Man if only! That would be so awesome and sad too because then I’ll have two powerhouses that still aren’t Netflix approved! Lol Rinad Amir 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 22, 2020 Administrators Share Posted January 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, Alt Shoo said: Man if only! That would be so awesome and sad too because then I’ll have two powerhouses that still aren’t Netflix approved! Lol It's IMAX approved instead! 32 minutes ago, Alt Shoo said: I’m not really concerned with higher frame rates because I don’t shoot much action. However my concerns are with the lens choices. I am aware of the limited options, but aren’t there converters which will allow me to use other lenses? Here was my lens adapters strategy with the GFX 50S... It will be same when I get GFX 100, in 100 years when the price is down to under £4000. 1x Leica M -> GFX Adapter 1x EF -> GFX Adapter with Autofocus (Techart) Then multiple Leica M to whatever SLR lens I was using, be it Nikon, M42, Contax Yashica, etc. The Minolta MD lenses worked the best You get some light fall off in the corners but not hard vignetting on lenses that pair well with it. Most of the ones that cover are longer than 50mm and the wider ones don't tend to do as well. Some SLR lenses designed for full frame were over-engineered to cover a larger image area. Don't expect much in way of corner sharpness compared to Fuji's own GFX lenses though. You can also get adapters to Hasselblad HC lenses. Or cheaper, older manual focus ones. There's a lot of old medium format glass on eBay if you don't wish to experiment with full frame stuff. My favourites of the full frame stuff on GFX mount are: Canon FD 85mm F1.2 - covers full sensor and looks sooooooooo damn good Sigma 85mm F1.4 ART Minolta MD Rokkor 58mm F1.2 Minolta MD Rokkor 35mm F1.8 Here is the guy who inspired me to try the Minolta stuff https://jonasraskphotography.com/2017/08/16/minolta-x-fujifilm/ Sigma 105mm F1.4 ART worked well, but very heavy! And yes, medium format at F1.2 or F1.4 looks every bit as spectacular as you'd think it would 32 minutes ago, Alt Shoo said: Also regarding those converted lenses, there may be some vignette-ing? Even if using full frame lenses? And it does 10 bit 422 external. Yes 10bit 422 external. I think it does 10bit 422 internal in fact, or was it 420 like X-T3? Ask Philip Bloom, he has one. I'm too poor. Rinad Amir, Juank and Alt Shoo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Chiu Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Alt Shoo said: [Snip] However my concerns are with the lens choices. I am aware of the limited options, but aren’t there converters which will allow me to use other lenses? Also regarding those converted lenses, there may be some vignette-ing? Even if using full frame lenses? And it does 10 bit 422 external. I don’t look at them as opposites, more like parallels. Everything that Andrew has said in reply to you, plus: 1. Metabones Hasselblad V to GFX Speedbooster. It brings real medium format to digital! Good choices (for stills as well as video) are (a) 50mm f/2.8 F (forget about the FE versions -- the electronics won't communicate, and they are more expensive) (b) 80mm f2.8 F (the CF or C versions are also good, and optically the same; but the F version focuses closer, and could be easily de-clicked) (c) 150mm f2.8 F All three above are excellent optically, could be easily de-clicked, and surprisingly affordable. I have omitted the legendary 110mm f2 not because it isn't good (it is), but second-hand price is very expensive. 2. For video use, the 16:9 4K crop of GFX 100 is 0.918x, i.e. only a little larger than the 0.934x crop of Red 8K VV at FF. Any FF lens, except perhaps the widest of superwides, should cover. The DCI 4K crop is just a bit bigger, but we still have room to experiment. Judging from screenshots I've seen (I've forgotten where....), Sigma 24mm f1.4 Art should most likely cover the 0.918x crop wide open at near- to mid-distance, or stopped down at infinity. Alt Shoo and Juank 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 5 hours ago, gt3rs said: Not really sure why your question because are so opposite these two cameras. I agree, is a very odd question. The buyer asking this should know clearly which one they're going for. As both of these are at their core very very very hardcore professional stills cameras. (with strong / unique video capabilities, but that is very much so playing second fiddle!) So anybody buying a Canon 1D X mk3 or a Fuji GFX100 is likely FIRST a serious photographer earning a good income from it, and should know their photography well and what kind of photography it is they do. And this is the core weirdness of the question: these are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT types of stills cameras. Nobody would seriously be tossing up which one to buy, as they should know instantly which one of the two is right for their type of stills shooting. (unless they're a rich Saudi prince who just wants it for the bling factor, in which case, why not simply buy both?) As the Fuji is a medium format digital, which means slower paced and very very high resolution files. While the Canon is for fast fast paced sports photography. If I personally was in a weird scenario where I had to choose between them (I had just won a raffle to pick a camera??) then I'd personally go for the Fuji GFX100, but that is because a) it costs more, so I'm maximizing that + b) I prefer a medium format camera to a sports camera, I've got medium format lenses already that I could use Video Hummus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Alt Shoo said: Yes that is why I am strongly considering it and for the “affordable” IMAX quality of the image. You'd get a million miles closer to "IMAX quality" with an UMP G2 + a skilled DoP + a skilled gaffer (+ a skilled mixer, if there is any dialogue) than simply with a Fuji GFX100 5 hours ago, Alt Shoo said: The stills aspect is also a great addition because I can also create a high quality billboard type poster with this camera. Ditto my previous comment. A Nikon D850 (heck, a D800!) should be able to make stunning high quality billboard photos for you already. (and if you can't, the problem isn't with the camera) Blackmagic URSA Mini Pro G2 + Nikon D850 is much cheaper in total (and waaaay cheaper once you consider medium format lens costs) than one Fuji GFX100 costs. You could also consider a Sony FX9 + Sony a7R mk3 combo as well, so that you're sharing the same lens mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Alt Shoo said: Man if only! That would be so awesome and sad too because then I’ll have two powerhouses that still aren’t Netflix approved! Lol "Netflix approved" means NOTHING to over 98% of us. As that only matters if you're making a commissioned project for Netflix, and if you are then you'll have plenty of budget to hire a Varicam LT / VENICE / Weapon / whatever! If you're doing a project to later on sell to Netflix? It doesn't matter what you use! Whatever you feel is right for the story. Could be your iPhone, could be an old DVX100, could be an Arri Mini, could be a Z Cam E2, whatever you like! kaylee, mechanicalEYE and Geoff CB 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Jerome Chiu said: Metabones Hasselblad V to GFX Speedbooster. It brings real medium format to digital! https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1501863-REG/metabones_mbsphv_fg_bm1_hasselblad_v_lens_to.html Damnnn, didn't know this product had came out! Nice. Hope Metabones does a Pentax 645 speedbooster as well. Jerome Chiu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 5 hours ago, IronFilm said: "Netflix approved" means NOTHING to over 98% of us. As that only matters if you're making a commissioned project for Netflix, and if you are then you'll have plenty of budget to hire a Varicam LT / VENICE / Weapon / whatever! If you're doing a project to later on sell to Netflix? It doesn't matter what you use! Whatever you feel is right for the story. Could be your iPhone, could be an old DVX100, could be an Arri Mini, could be a Z Cam E2, whatever you like! I too fall in that 98% and I’m also extremely aware that you can use a Fisher Price “My First Camera” to create something that can possibly be sold to Netflix. However when that opportunity arises, I would like to have that option already in my stable. I don’t rent equipment, but I do get loaners. I am also in the camp that having a “Netflix” budget doesn’t mean I am forced to go out and get an Arri or what have you just because. With that budget I’m more privy to allocate that towards more important aspects (to me) like the screenplay, gaffing, set design, talent etc. With the power of today’s sensor technology I can get an S1H and rival what is considered “big budget” if all the other elements that lends itself to production quality were on par with those big budget-ed productions, all the while being Netflix approved. Also, if I wasn’t concerned with working with Netflix, I can replace that S1H and use a Gyls300 and I’ll still be able to do what I want. Which leads to my preference and me wanting to use a GFX 100 or perhaps the 1Dmkiii and not a FX9 or RED, for that matter because I prefer the look the GFX can give my productions. Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned Netflix approved because I know what that entails on forums such as this vital platform we are all on, but it’s still an important factor with my purchases. Regarding the stills aspect of it, yes I can use what are expertly suggested here for print use (even for the IMAX recommendation) and those submissions are wonderful, but it still comes down to my preference for how I want to finish my job! Andrew Reid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 On another note, Fuji released another lens for the GFX system! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted January 23, 2020 Super Members Share Posted January 23, 2020 Personally, I'd just look at the outer edges of the GFX100 system and take it from there. In no particular order these would be : The maximum of 5fps in stills, the maximum mechanical shutter speed of 1/4000th, maximum internal recording format of 4K30p 10 bit 4:2:0 and a native lens range in 35mm FOV equivalent of 18mm to 200mm. Those are all fixed limits and ones that without any changes from Fujifilm you will have to consider will always stay fixed so if you absolutely MUST have 10fps or 1/8000th or RAW or 6K or 4K60p or a native14mm or 300mm lens then walk away. Of those, though, the fps and mechanical shutter ones are the ones that are absolutely set in stone and Fuji doesn't yet feature any lenses on its roadmap that are outside of the 18-200mm range so that too should be considered an outer edge for the foreseeable future. The mitigation here with the lenses of course is that I'm only talking about native ones and it is a hghly adaptable mount including AF adapters for EF lenses so its not without options. Importantly, one of these options is a PL adapter which is something that EF bodies can't accomodate. Which leaves us with the video specs and whether the 10bit 4:2:0 internal or 10bit 4:2:2 external files it produces are good enough versus the internal or external RAW from another camera. From what I've seen of it, it has a very nice output but until you have an A/B against the other competitor then who knows really and with this sort of money on the line I'd be looking to rent them and determine that myself rather than rely on a YouTube one. At the end of the day, if I had the money and had to choose between these two particular cameras then I would buy the GFX because my particular needs for it these days wouldn't exceed the fixed hard edges of the spec and I'd favour the massive edge it gives in stills over the smaller loss in video as a worthwhile compromise. Andrew Reid and Alt Shoo 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 I was looking for a way to edit my comment and not post again, but it seems I have to post again. Anyways I forgot to mention a reason why I wouldn’t choose the fx9 and that is because the highest resolution is UHD. I prefer DCI 4K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted January 23, 2020 Super Members Share Posted January 23, 2020 This is one of the better run throughs of the GFX100 that I've seen on YouTube. Alt Shoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Alt Shoo said: I was looking for a way to edit my comment and not post again, but it seems I have to post again. Anyways I forgot to mention a reason why I wouldn’t choose the fx9 and that is because the highest resolution is UHD. I prefer DCI 4K. Go for the Panasonic EVA1? That has 4K DCI 60fps 10bit internal. https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/01/31/panasonic-eva-1-3-0-firmware-update-adds-4k60p-h-265-recording/ Rinad Amir and Alt Shoo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 4 hours ago, IronFilm said: Go for the Panasonic EVA1? That has 4K DCI 60fps 10bit internal. https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/01/31/panasonic-eva-1-3-0-firmware-update-adds-4k60p-h-265-recording/ I own a Eva1! I’m really looking for that full frame aesthetic. @BTM_Pix yes I’ve seen that video! It’s really informative. Thank you for sharing so others can be aware of its capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Alt Shoo said: I’m really looking for that full frame aesthetic. I'd just buy faster lenses instead.... ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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