Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 23, 2020 Administrators Share Posted January 23, 2020 Why is anybody bothering with the Pocket cameras when there is an image this good from the Panasonic S1 out there? I just don't get it. There are a lot of apologists out there for Blackmagic cameras. I think the brand has a very strong cinematic association. If it were the Pentax Cinema Camera or the Nikon ProRes Camera the hype would be a lot less. Blackmagic have done a lot of great things, Resolve, the codec side, but the S1 and S1H have a flat out better image. It's that simple. And why anybody would not want the other things offered like IBIS and EVF, also baffles me. Shootout coming soon. Alt Shoo and tomsemiterrific 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted January 23, 2020 Super Members Share Posted January 23, 2020 What are the odds of the S1 getting the ProResRAW output option ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 23, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted January 23, 2020 Probably quite high, I know Panasonic are considering it. ProRes and RAW internal on mirrorless cameras would be great next step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted January 23, 2020 Super Members Share Posted January 23, 2020 I'm committed to getting the FP but if it doesn't work out then I'd be quite tempted to chop it in for an S1 down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 23, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted January 23, 2020 I just ordered the Smallrig cage for my Fp. Looks well designed. https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-cage-for-sigma-fp-camera-ccm2518.html BTM_Pix and Rinad Amir 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliKMIA Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I would say that price, codec and lens selection is a huge plus for the Pocket 4K. You can put a lot of adapted lenses, use all the available M43 glasses, codec selection is big. In contrast the S1 is still expensive, native lenses selection is limited and expensive, doesn't bring that much to the table (no FF 4k60p) and is just so huge and heavy. Pocket 4k is $1300, S1 is $2500. The image from the pocket 4K is still nice, perhaps not as good straight out of the camera than the P4K but the robust codec option facilitates grading. Personally, I'm still deeply in love with my GH5 and I'm not considering the P4K. The S1 is a great body but it's not a huge improvement specs wise to justify to upgrade from the GH5 unless you need to shoot in the dark. heart0less, Kisaha, sanveer and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisNagelkirk Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said: I'm committed to getting the FP but if it doesn't work out then I'd be quite tempted to chop it in for an S1 down the line. Regarding the FP vs S1... I have a buddy that's shoots Alexa regularly and we've been pixel peeping the S1 a lot. He's pretty impressed with the S1 and claims it's "like 95% of an Alexa". The internal 10-bit files are great and flexible, as long as they're not terribly underexposed. You really have to do something crazy for the image to fall apart. The FP looks fantastic as an idea (their video promo is mind-blowing), but it seems WAY overpriced for the amount of hassle that the full DNG will be. When I shot raw on my Blackmagic, I used SlimRaw to convert my full DNGs to 7:1 compressed, but that got real old, real fast. Never again will I bother with full DNG sequences. Unless Sigma prices the FP to sell like cookies, like BM did with the original Pocket, then I'll likely pass on the FP. Mark Romero 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I'd say for the BRAW. Also higher frame rates in prores and RAW. Can't really beat the Pocket 6k for IQ. Its doable shooting with the Pocket 4k and internal batteries. Pretty small footprint. It can still be lighter than a RED rigged up but less ergonomic. The Panasonic S1 and URSA mini 4.6k(old used one) are on my radar right now. The S1H is a bit out of my price range. The S1 fills in the low light need and is pretty decent with dynamic range. The Ursa Mini fills in my dynamic range needs but lacks in low light. It looks way more professional having an Ursa mini on set over an S1 though. Geoff CB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanRevert Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I love the image I get out of the Pocket 4K. Having said that, I'd also like to pickup an S1 just because I love Panasonic's ergos so much. But.. I hate that they didn't put a flip out screen in the S1. Dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannick Willox Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 The S1 plus the extra video option is double the price of the P4K in Belgium. A lot of people already have good m43 glass. The internal battery is fine for me, most shoots are on AC. I bought a 100 euro Batpower solution, which gives me 4h30+45' internal in case I need it. Even with the cage and Batpower it is still half the price, because I really needed to buy Resolve otherwise. I pretty much gave up on PP. Then you have the speed and worflow of Braw. So, even if the S1 has better image quality (for Full HD deliverables ?), we have plenty of reasons to like our p4k. I do understand your point considering the p6k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Freeze Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I got my Pocket 4K shortly after the release and while being a powerful camera from the start, it keeps on improving ever since via the firmware-upgrades. Personally, I like BRAW a lot and the new recording modes (2.4:1 in 4K @ 75fps and 2.6k @120fps) are an awesome addition to the regular 4K, UHD and HD Modes. I didn´t work with the S1 yet, so I don´t have first hand experience. The specs look good, the images on youtube/vimeo look great and sure, IBIS can be a great thing to have. Do I like Blackmagic Cameras? Yes, I have the BMCC 2.5k, the original Pocket and the Pocket 4K and use all three of them, even the older models. Am I an apologist? I don´t think so. I see the downsides and disadvantages, the cameras have and would never say that they´re flawless. But they set the bar a lot higher ever since the BMCC was released, so other companies had to adapt. For now I´m totally satisfied with my Pocket 4K, and for the way I capture my footage it is the right tool. But I´m looking forward to your comparison/shootout of the both @Andrew Reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted January 24, 2020 Super Members Share Posted January 24, 2020 20 hours ago, DennisNagelkirk said: Regarding the FP vs S1... I have a buddy that's shoots Alexa regularly and we've been pixel peeping the S1 a lot. He's pretty impressed with the S1 and claims it's "like 95% of an Alexa". The internal 10-bit files are great and flexible, as long as they're not terribly underexposed. You really have to do something crazy for the image to fall apart. The FP looks fantastic as an idea (their video promo is mind-blowing), but it seems WAY overpriced for the amount of hassle that the full DNG will be. When I shot raw on my Blackmagic, I used SlimRaw to convert my full DNGs to 7:1 compressed, but that got real old, real fast. Never again will I bother with full DNG sequences. Unless Sigma prices the FP to sell like cookies, like BM did with the original Pocket, then I'll likely pass on the FP. My primary use for the FP is as a (very) small full frame stills camera for my Leica M and L lenses with the bonus of RAW video if I want it so its predominantly about the form factor first. Nothing I would do with it video wise would be of an urgency where the RAW workflow would be a massive turn off. I've cooled on it a little because of some of the issues that have cropped up so I'm watching how Sigma respond to those but even so, from a purely stills point of view, its going to give me something my SL doesn't in terms of form factor so I'll probably go for it and see how the video side pans out. From day one, it looked like it had the potential to be the full frame version of the original pocket but it could definitely do with a few of the rough edges smoothed off. The S1 I'm looking at really to develop a controller for so a bit more of a head rather than heart purchase but, yeah, from all I've seen of it I wouldn't be averse to keep hold of it once the work is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: My primary use for the FP is as a (very) small full frame stills camera for my Leica M and L lenses with the bonus of RAW video if I want it so its predominantly about the form factor first. Nothing I would do with it video wise would be of an urgency where the RAW workflow would be a massive turn off. I've cooled on it a little because of some of the issues that have cropped up so I'm watching how Sigma respond to those but even so, from a purely stills point of view, its going to give me something my SL doesn't in terms of form factor so I'll probably go for it and see how the video side pans out. From day one, it looked like it had the potential to be the full frame version of the original pocket but it could definitely do with a few of the rough edges smoothed off. The S1 I'm looking at really to develop a controller for so a bit more of a head rather than heart purchase but, yeah, from all I've seen of it I wouldn't be averse to keep hold of it once the work is done. I'm really tempted to get an S1. I liked the easy workflow of H264 on the GH5 vs H265 on the XT3. I may just get one. I feel like HLG on the XT3 and S1 may be fairly easy to match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted January 24, 2020 Super Members Share Posted January 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said: I'm really tempted to get an S1. I liked the easy workflow of H264 on the GH5 vs H265 on the XT3. I may just get one. I feel like HLG on the XT3 and S1 may be fairly easy to match. I keep thinking that in the back of my mind I'd have S1H envy but thats how they get you isn't it ! Thats the comparison I'd be most interested in though between the S1 and S1H as the 80 or 90% or whatever that the S1 is of the S1H might well be 100% enough, particularly considering the price difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: I keep thinking that in the back of my mind I'd have S1H envy but thats how they get you isn't it ! Thats the comparison I'd be most interested in though between the S1 and S1H as the 80 or 90% or whatever that the S1 is of the S1H might well be 100% enough, particularly considering the price difference. do you need high speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted January 25, 2020 Super Members Share Posted January 25, 2020 26 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said: do you need high speed? I'd file it under nice to have rather than deal breaker. That extra software key they sell for it activates 10 bit 4:2:2 4K60p external out which would be plenty for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said: I'd file it under nice to have rather than deal breaker. That extra software key they sell for it activates 10 bit 4:2:2 4K60p external out which would be plenty for me. Nah only 10 bit 422 30p 4k. HD goes up to 60p in 10 bit but not 4k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted January 25, 2020 Super Members Share Posted January 25, 2020 13 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said: Nah only 10 bit 422 30p 4k. HD goes up to 60p in 10 bit but not 4k. According to Panasonic, it does. EDIT>>> Although it only seems to be APS-C ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trek of Joy Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 On 1/23/2020 at 4:58 PM, Andrew Reid said: Shootout coming soon. Can you add the FP to the mix? Seems like all three would make a great comparison. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mckinise Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Both the Pocket Cinema Cameras and S1H have true 24.0 fps and Cinema 4k, but does the S1 have it before or AFTER the Filmmaker upgrade key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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