BMPCC Lens choice for Videoclips and Short Films starting career.

[Abraham Torna]

Hello 

 

I'm trying to figurate what lens are the best for me. Art Director and Visual Effect Artist with more than 10 years of experience. I want to enter in the film directions realms and buying a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera for start, and need advice for lens for videoclips and short films mainly, to archive the best cinematography quality possible.

 

Budget $3000 top for cover all the lens range, (no run and gun, no vintage lens ... from now)

 

This are my options:

 

 

Option A: $2530

Metabone SpeedBooster (SB) for BMPCC: $490

24mm: Samyang 24mm T1.5 Cine Lens for Nikon F $700

35mm: Samyang 35mm T1.5 Cine Lens for Nikon F $520

50mm: NIKON 50MM F1.4 AIS: $470

85mm: Samyang 85mm T1.5 Cine Lens for Nikon F $350

_________________________________

Option B: $2621

Metabone SpeedBooster for BMPCC: $490

SLR Magic 12mm 1.6 $600

Sigma 18-35 1.8 $855

Tamron 28-75 2.8 $676

Total: $2621

_________________________________

Option C: $2170

Sigma Zoom 14-35 $855

Sigma 24-70mm $825

Metabone SpeedBooster for BMPCC: $490

_________________________________

 

Lens Discarted:

 

Samyang 10mm Is not Yet in the market :(

Pana 18-35 - Barrel Distortion

Tokina 11-16 Blurry Edges with SB

 

What options you think is better for me ?, Do I miss some lens focal for the bmpcc or something else ?? 

Please Help!

 

[Axel]

What options you think is better for me ?, Do I miss some lens focal for the bmpcc or something else ?? 

Please Help!

 

With the Sigma 18-35 and Speedbooster, you cover all FOVs equivalent to 30-60 mm full frame (I know this is an awkward way of translating it, but people are not used to think in FOV angles yet, perhaps in a few years). This will be sufficient for 80 % of situations. What is missing for about 15 % is a moderate tele. With a Novoflex Nikon to MFT adapter (~150 bucks), you'd add 52mm - 100 mm with the same lens. For the rare occasions when you plan steadycam-like shots or a landscape, you'd need a very wide lens.

[chrisso]

Great advice above.
I plan on doing the same.
I have a regular Nikon to m4/3rds adapter and the a Sigma 18 to 35. I'll get the pocket speed booster when they are available again. And all I need to find is a slightly wider lens that matches the Sigma at some point, especially for more mobile filming.

[Axel]

Only minor problem is, that the Speedbooster can't be exchanged in a hurry. It comes with a small "riser", which is needed not only to support a heavier lens like the Sigma, but also to allow the camera (the riser actually) to be mounted on a tripod plate. My Contineo cage doesn't help either: It doesn't add enough height (still some 5mm or so are missing). And then you have to disassemble the SB's riser (two tiny screws) before you can mount the SB with the cage's front in the way. With the Novoflex (or any other adapter) the problem persists. Unless you use very small MFT or c-mount lenses, you definitely need a special plate beneath the BMPCC, preferably lightweight and not higher than max. half an inch. The Contineo riser kit is not what I want. 

[Abraham Torna]

Thanks to all for your answers, I think that the desition could be easer if the Sigma 18-35 don't exits ;)

 

Right Now My choise are:

 

Metabone SpeedBooster for both option:

 

Option A:

Samyang 16mm T2.2 Cine Lens for Nikon F $529

Samyang 24mm T1.5 Cine Lens for Nikon F $700

Samyang 35mm T1.5 Cine Lens for Nikon F $520

 

Total: $1750

 

Option B:

Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Lens for Nikon $800

 

Total $800

 

 

For me is hard to justify the $950 of difference in the rokinon pack, except for the cinegears. But I don't know, perhaps is only me but the are a lot of other stuff that I take in account and make me doubt:

 

If I choose the Sigma and another lens for more than 100mm focal length and wide angle like a 10 or so. Do I gonna have differences look in the lens range??

 

With the rokinons I don't have this problems becose there is the Samyang 16mm T2.2 Cine Lens and the look is consistent between all of them ?? For me this is VERY IMPORTAT.

 

For other much more subjetive: When I look all the rokinon stuff in internet (and I see A LOT), I have the feeling of films but when I saw the Sigma stuff is too cold, hypersharp (is that a defect?) and videoish. Thats could sound silly.

 

Samyang samples:

  (From:

)

 

 

Instead for the Sigma there are samples but any convinced me at the point to go away to buy it. 

https://vimeo.com/76881206

 

 

I know, I know very subjetive and video compression making his magic... But I don't know then you see things like this and make you think if you have in the right track ?!?

 

 

But OK, from now the are Option A and Option B. Please help me to deside without looking at the money.

[chrisso]

How can you divorce the lens from the skill of the operator or the subject matter?

Personally I think Axel nailed it advice-wise.

[Abraham Torna]

Yes Chrisso is very hard to separate things and a very subjetive manner. For example Michael Solomon is a very good color grading artist, just se your color reel.

 

Yes Alex nailed so good that He open my eyes (thanks alex!) about the second choise, that's why right now is my second choise.

 

But my point is, if the Sigma is soo good, that definitly is. Why anybody has made a short film ?? or if is so comparable to CP2 Why anybody has do a Ads or a Fake Ads with this wonderful Lens ??

 

I know that is sharpen than Samyang 24 at 1.8, I read that is very sharp at 18. But anybody use it in videomode profesionally. Or please correctme if I'm wrong.

[Axel]

I gave up the quest for the "filmlook" (german anglicism by origin, meaning cinematic look). Because when we had camcorders once with essentially absolute depth of field, mostly interlaced video, very low dynamic range and so forth, we used to compare them to 'the real stuff' and tried to overcome these characteristics. The VDSLR revolution made the filmlook accessible for everyone and the grading softwares completed it, to a point, where real film (analog or digital) looked clean and natural in comparison. 

 

So I understand what you wrote about the Sigma, that it looks videoish, like btw the Oly or Pan MFT lenses also do. This is the cinema camera though, and imho it's time to consider a different approach. If you are a woman, you don't dress like a transvestite or you will look ridiculous. But different strokes for different folks ...

[Abraham Torna]

 it's time to consider a different approach. If you are a woman, you don't dress like a transvestite or you will look ridiculous. But different strokes for different folks ...

 

Sorry man, perhaps is my poor english but I don't understand your point.

 

The thing is that I wanna make a career like storyteller, I would kill for a sigma-bmpcc years ago, when I shot with Pana P2 and miniDV tapes, green screen included and at that time I thought that was wonderful. 

 

But we are not in this times anymore. I want to restart my career and what to make it with a razonable budget without sacrify quality. Thats the most important part.

 

I know that Sigma win in sharpen in every chapter (http://tinyurl.com/keag2mw), is only one lens not three like the Samyang, dirt cheap compared but I would hope that some one take the time (Sigma are you listening?) to request any good DP to archive some kind of shortfilm like the Samyang named with pro color grading to to clear the few remaining doubts this lens.

 

For photo is a no brain lens, for shortfilms, videoclips and ads I'm not 100% positive about it.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Not disagreeing with any of the advice but..,

 

Remember, when comparing the Sigma to the Rok 35mm you should shift everything on the mtf chart to the right for the BMPoC, since you will only be using the center of image circle on the Rok (because of crop factor). The difference in sharpness is a bit exaggerated otherwise.  Also, if you ever upgrade to full frame, you won't be able to use the Sigma.

[Axel]

Sorry man, perhaps is my poor english but I don't understand your point.

 

Right. You may have heard the saying IT'S NOT THE CAMERA. A truism, but true nonetheless. And also IT'S NOT THE LENS. Things have become too easy, and people don't care (see my motto below) for appriopriate style. Once (say, in the seventies) it was hard to capture something worth filming, because the film stock was slow and the lenses were slow. Things needed to be manipulated more rigorously, also in front of the camera. DOPs would have been very happy to have the sharpest, fastest lenses with the cleanest and most neutral specs.

 

Now your examples show more expertise of the DOP/colorist than advantages of one lens over another, imho.

Yet I think, nice imagery, but why the heck should I bother?

 

What I am determined to do is this: Find a good subject/story, prepare everything so that it fits the intended mood (moodboard, production design, location scouting, choice of colors, lighting), capture every nuance of it without destroying anything and then grade it so that it looks better than I could have imagined in my boldest dreams.

 

What I'm determined to stop: Reacting to nice looking things in my environment, recording them with some general pleasing look on my mind but no idea what sense all this makes. All beautiful clips on youtube or vimeo are as trivial as the worst kind of holiday movies. Point and shoot with no concept whatsoever.

 

I don't say the Sigma is the best lens for the Pocket. Perhaps the Samyangs are better. But it was reasonable to buy it, and I don't care for any cinematic look or videoish look.  

[Abraham Torna]

Ok, lets say that I go with the Sigma road. 

The Sigma lens don't have aperture ring as far as I know. So this job is gonna be made with the Speedbooster for the short range and I don't know with adapter select that have aperture ring (Novoflex Nikon to MFT adapter is almost $300 in USA) that is not way to expensive ??

 

I have the EzFoto pro Canon EF to MFT and have a nice aperture ring, I can't find a similar NKN/MFT, so I can used with a nikon to canon adapter but I don't know if this affect the lens depth or anything else far for my short camera knowledge ?!?

[thecook]

Ok, lets say that I go with the Sigma road. 

The Sigma lens don't have aperture ring as far as I know. So this job is gonna be made with the Speedbooster for the short range and I don't know with adapter select that have aperture ring (Novoflex Nikon to MFT adapter is almost $300 in USA) that is not way to expensive ??

 

I have the EzFoto pro Canon EF to MFT and have a nice aperture ring, I can't find a similar NKN/MFT, so I can used with a nikon to canon adapter but I don't know if this affect the lens depth or anything else far for my short camera knowledge ?!?

http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Olympus-Panasonic-Cameras/dp/B003Y2XN9G/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1389314083&sr=8-5&keywords=nikon+to+mft

[chrisso]

Yep.

Both the Metabones standard Nikon G to MFT adapter and the speedbooster versions allow aperture control.

[Abraham Torna]

Thanks guys for the answers but correct me if I'm wrong but if I buy the Speedbooster pocket camera edition make any sense buy the standard ?? or with the Fotodiox Lens Mount Adapter, Nikon G-type to Micro 4/3  that Thecook advise I can reach the focal lenght 3x like if the lens would be conected to the camera directly ??

[Abraham Torna]

As I see it with the Sigma 18-35 ($800) can get:

 

1- Speedbooster Pocket Edition ($489):  30mm - 58mm

 

 

2- Fotodiox Lens Mount Adapter, Nikon to Micro 4/3  ($27):  51mm 100mm

 

So If I'm correct for ($1316 aprox) I cover from (30mm - 100mm) with 1 stop less and very sharp image all over ??

[Abraham Torna]

Anyone ?

[Axel]

Yes, this is a set with which you can start shooting (ND + IR filter needed, see parallel thread) - and wait or search for a good wide and a good tele.

[chrisso]

 

 

So If I'm correct for ($1316 aprox) I cover from (30mm - 100mm) with 1 stop less and very sharp image all over ??

 

This is similar to what I'm planning. I probably don't need anything longer than 100mm, so I'd just be adding a wide at some point. maybe one of the Sigma (10mm or 8-16mm).

[Abraham Torna]

Hi thecook, the adaptor that you told me (http://www.amazon.co...ds=nikon to mft) is not compatible with the sigma 18-35, it is for Nikon G lens that have aperture ring but for declicked aperture. 

 

If I go with the Sigma route I need a lens adapter with actual, APERTURE BLADES. Is there anything like this in the market ??

 

Or for a 2th option: With a ND Fader Filter and a dump mount like Fotodiox NKN-MTF Adapter can I perfectly manage all the light that enter in the lens ??