Canon EOS R5 - 8K30p 4K120p

[Django]

20 minutes ago, eleison said:

Did canon also acknowledge that if they charged $4-5k for their R5; a person can also buy 2-3 blackmagic pocket cinema cameras?  Granted it's m43, and no autofocusing -- but than you have both an A, B and also C cameras with "cinema quality" images.

The R6 is more realistic, but the pocket 4k is cheaper and the pocket 6k has 6k.  I'm assuming R6 is only 4k but auto-focusing.  The competition is fierce but are they willing to REALLY change?  I doubt it.  They seem to be stuck in the past:  "oh well use to charge 10k for our cameras, now we are going to charge 4-5k; see we have changed"... 

EOS R is a FF hybrid mirrorless system. Blackmagic is none of that. They don't even do AF. Your comparison is irrelevant.

We don't know anything about the pricing or final specs yet so it's a little early to complain about pricing don't you think?!

[eleison]

3 minutes ago, Django said:

EOS R is a FF hybrid mirrorless system. Blackmagic is none of that. They don't even do AF. Your comparison is irrelevant.

We don't know anything about the pricing or final specs yet so it's a little early to complain about pricing don't you think?!

We are all speculating :-)  The EOS R needs to target a market segment.  We don't know which segment that is - the SH1 segment (the approximately $4k or more) or the $1-3k segment where the blackmagic is currently dominating. 

If they are targeting the $4k and over segment, good luck to them.  There are less, and less buyers at this level.

[Django]

13 minutes ago, eleison said:

We are all speculating 🙂 The EOS R needs to target a market segment.  We don't know which segment that is - the SH1 segment (the approximately $4k or more) or the $1-3k segment where the blackmagic is currently dominating. 

If they are targeting the $4k and over segment, good luck to them.  There are less, and less buyers at this level.

EOS R -like most MILC systems- is aimed at photographers first, videographers second.

Again BM isn't even in that hybrid market, so they aren't competing with it let alone dominating it.

Canon have two cameras coming (R5 & R6) one will be expensive, the other less so. 

Seems like a sound strategy, not to mention if the specs are true it very well might be the class-leading FF units for 2020.

Only wild card left is Sony and I don't really see them topping this.

[Trankilstef]

2 hours ago, eleison said:

Yelp, they are aligning for the end user to be butt r$$#@%ped.  Remember how expensive their original cinema dslr were?  I think it was like $10k or something.  I would assume the r5 is going to be pretty expensive if they specs are real.

 

2 hours ago, Django said:

Don’t be silly now. Those days are long over. The competition is fierce, the market has shrunk and Canon are acknowledging both in their financial report.

The specs aren’t that crazy either. We know nothing yet about crop factor, codec bit depth or if RAW is there.

My guess is it will have slightly inferior specs to 1DX3.

Id say expect S1H pricing on the R5 ($4000-4500) & S1 pricing on the R6 ($2500).

 

 

1 hour ago, mechanicalEYE said:

I agree, they seem very aware of the current market, and plan to act accordingly. Going too high on price would just shoot them in the foot just like a crazy crop factor would at this point, competition wise. 

I think 3599 to 3999 body only would be my guess. ( maybe a little more ) but they know these new bodies will drive the purchase of their new RF lenses further which is a win win for them.

Yep it should be just a tad aver the S1H price for me. According to canonrumorsguy it should'nt be that pricey.

[Matthew19]

Since we know from the 1dx III that Canon can now handle oversampling, does anyone know whether oversampling more pixels , as would be done in the R5, requires more processing power compared to a sensor with less pixels or is it all the same? 

I just don't see how they can get more processing in less space, unless they actually held back on the 1dx III. 
 

[Andrew Reid]

It is likely 4K/60p won't be oversampled from 8K. The sensor likely won't go past 30fps in that highest resolution mode, and even then, rolling shutter in 8K might be an issue.

4K/60p will either be a crop mode, or pixel binned like the S1R / SL2.

4K/24p on the other hand may well be oversampled from the full frame 8K image.

[Video Hummus]

I’m really interested to see where the actual specs land.

If it offers 4K/60p no crop and pixel binned then that’s good enough for me.

4K120p with a heavy crop and no AF is fine with me.

Oversampled 4K24/30p would be amazing.

Dual pixel in every mode up to 60p would be killer as well as roughly 13.5 stops DR to compete with S1H.

[eleison]

3 hours ago, Django said:

EOS R -like most MILC systems- is aimed at photographers first, videographers second.

Again BM isn't even in that hybrid market, so they aren't competing with it let alone dominating it.

Yes, BM isn't completing in the hybrid market.  In the hybrid market, the best selling camera is the a7iii.  It's a $1800 camera.  So now Canon is going to try an compete in this market with a $4k camera????  You can buy two a7iii or the a7r4 which is one of the best "hybrid" cameras out there now and still cheaper than $4k.  All of these mention cameras are photographers first, and videographers second.

 

Blackmagic pocket 4k is competing in the budget cinema segment which they are dominating.  Almost everyone who has owned a pocket 4k is extremely satisfied in their purchase.  I'm not sure they will be willing to spend $3.5k more to get full frame and good autofocusing.

 

[fluidfilm]

On 1/28/2020 at 4:26 PM, wolf33d said:

Well, ladies and gentlemen are we in the most exciting year since a decade for video gear? If this is true then yes. Canon rumors is usually reliable unlike Sony Alpha Rumors that is pure BS. Especially when rated CR3. So here you have it.

Canon EOS R5 for photo + in february

45mpx / IBIS / 8k30p and 4k120p / canon DPAF. Comes with Canon colors and menus that we know.  My dream camera and then more... the one I have been wishing for since many years on EOSHD. The one that could take me back to Canon. 

Also if true, Sony is dead. Canon took a massive hit with Sony being far better than their products since the A7III. They saw a massive number of people like me jump boat, even if massively invested in their system. They released in rush and too late an absolutely shitty EOS R, with laughable video specs, mediocre stills performance (FPS, dynamic range...), no IBIS and early gen mistakes. They should be dying now or soon. Yet before dying it seems they are giving all they can now to make a turn. We can clearly see that with the 1DX3, and HOPEFULLY we will see that with that thing. 
Why R5? Is it to rule the Sony RIV? :).

Anyway Specs sound unreal... so brace yourself. But dreaming is free.

https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-r5-specifications/

Great assessment - I agree on your wrap up. Except the dying part. Canon has as a market share for interchangeable lens cameras equal to Sony and Nikon combined, so relative to the competition, they're not dying by any means. But technologically, I totally agree they're playing catchup on the video front for this form factor.

[Trankilstef]

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

I’m really interested to see where the actual specs land.

If it offers 4K/60p no crop and pixel binned then that’s good enough for me.

4K120p with a heavy crop and no AF is fine with me.

Oversampled 4K24/30p would be amazing.

Dual pixel in every mode up to 60p would be killer as well as roughly 13.5 stops DR to compete with S1H.

This would be my dream camera (all you say) !! 

[abehalpert]

I'm betting that 4k120p will be cropped to half the sensor width. (But of course we can speed-boost it.)

And 4k60p will be 3/4 sensor width and/or pixel binned full-frame.

I think the R6 may be more useful to me than the R5 if it pans out to be similar to a mirrorless 1DXmk3 and has better low-light and DR performance. But the 1Dxmk3 has relatively limited codec options, which make it less versatile than a real video camera.

That being said, 4k120p would be a great feature to offer in any package. Although I bet that general slow motion applications don't need more than 60p...

[Alex Uzan]

On 1/30/2020 at 9:32 PM, Trankilstef said:

Ok just to add my two cents. As I said in another thread I talked to a Canon rep on tuesday and he told me that on the video side the announcement that will come in February (he told me specifically before March)  will have me happier than ever. I was telling him that I loved the EOS R on the stills part but on the video though it is better than advertised all across the internet, it lacks some really important things. And he smiled, really confidently, and told me to not worry at all, to just wait for the next announcement.
Then today I spoke with a Canon Ambassador, over 30mn on the phone. We talked about her next projects etc and I couldn't help myself to ask for advice, i know she's one of the early professional adopters of the EOS R, and I told her I wanted to buy a second body, I was waiting for the next iteration of the R line, but was hesitant to not buy right now a second EOS R. She just told me this : "you better wait! I signed a NDA so I can't tell nothing but you really better wait. Something big is coming" She insisted on the "Big"... I speak to some Canon reps or this ambassador from time to time and got some insights sometime. But never, never I saw them this confident about a coming product. 
So yes, something really big is coming, and I think it will be a game changer.

Why no one has quoted your post ?
I find it interesting, and make me believe that Canon will, finally, play the true mirrorless game.

So now we have to wait a few weeks to see what Sony and Canon have in their vault.

[Dunjoye]

Canon left the DSLR vid game for 10 years  with no innovation and now they are about to hit with a bang like they never left.

[Trankilstef]

44 minutes ago, Alex Uzan said:

Why no one has quoted your post ?
I find it interesting, and make me believe that Canon will, finally, play the true mirrorless game.

So now we have to wait a few weeks to see what Sony and Canon have in their vault.

I don't know why people didn't reacted on my post, not a big deal, the important thing is really how Canon is confident and how excited they are about their new products. I've never seen it (from them) before. 

[scotchtape]

Because it is all hearsay on the internet right now  

No point in buying anything until the reviews come in.  That being said, if it's really good of course it will do well, I would switch too if it has AF in 4K60FF and everything else is up to snuff.

[leslie]

2 hours ago, Trankilstef said:

I don't know why people didn't reacted on my post, not a big deal, the important thing is really how Canon is confident and how excited they are about their new products. I've never seen it (from them) before. 

nobody in the entire history of marketing, ever talked their product down . Of course their going to be excited, excitement generates hype, hype gets everyone in a bit of a tizz and out buying stuff. Canon probably want to sell a lot of product before someone works out where its been gimped 🙄

Now before you canon fanbooys start lighting flaming torches and pick up your pitchforks i also have a canon, albeit 10 year old canon but it still works and with magic lantern onboard i can do all sorts of things canon never intended.

What canon really need to do is collaborate with magic lantern and produce something extraordinary, something really game changing. But i suspect thats way to left of field for them to consider. For you guys i hope that canon really do lift their game, as for me i have the bmd p4k its enough for me maybe further down the track i may look at another still camera, maybe not.

[thebrothersthre3]

8 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

 as well as roughly 13.5 stops DR to compete with S1H.

I doubt that'll happen

[Avenger 2.0]

9 hours ago, Dunjoye said:

Canon left the DSLR vid game for 10 years  with no innovation and now they are about to hit with a bang like they never left.

Doubt we will see zebra's, waveform monitor, vectorscope, false color, double slot recording, etc... But a simple hdmi monitor/recorder will provide you that.

But indeed see them giving you decent 8k, good dpaf, canon colors, peaking, etc... Will be a good B-cam for C300/500 or A-cam for enthousiasts/vloggers/...

[Trankilstef]

6 hours ago, leslie said:

For you guys i hope that canon really do lift their game, as for me i have the bmd p4k its enough for me maybe further down the track i may look at another still camera, maybe not.

I just sold my Pocket4K 2 weeks ago. It's a lovely camera but for the work I do I need some good autofocus sometimes and I just felt something big would come from canon. I already have a Canon EOS R that I use for my pro gigs, but I felt they would give us what I wanted : 4k60p, 10bits 422 and eventually IBIS. I'm already sold on the C-Log that is easy to grade. 
But I really didn't want to sell my Pocket 4k, the image out of this is so good, the Braw is definitely something I will miss.
 

[Jeterisk]

Here’s guessing that the body will be the size of a 5D, because:

1. Those huge RF lenses could do with a beefy body for better balance

2. Those huge video specs probably need more room for heat dispersion

3. According to their financial report, they really need to hit the nail on the head for this lower volume higher margin cam, and correct me if i am wrong but the 5D series is their best selling in this category, so creating a workhorse around that format would be smart and maybe let the R and RP series fight it out with the “prosumer” FX competition.

After using the S1 for some time and getting reminded why the “big” SLR style reigned supreme for so long, i would hugely appreciate a “mirrorless 5D” to go with those incredibly innovative RF lenses.

What do you guys think?