independent Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 The lower specced R6 model has great potential to be a goldilocks indie filmmaker's camera. But some key features would require the right kind of compromises. 20 MP full frame sensor = Raw 12-bit 5.5K @ up to 30 Internal recording is key. Nobody wants the burden of rigging an extra Atomos monitor. The flip touchscreen is functional and convenient. The 1DXIII showed Canon's willingness to finally put internal recording in a DSLR. They can do it in mirrorless with some adjustments: The camera should be bigger to accommodate for heat dissipation and IBIS. The original R is a small camera. No need to cut important features to prioritize a tiny body for filmmakers, especially when the added features preclude the necessity of a rig. 10-bit 422 processing is demanding, which is going to be an issue with a full frame stabilized sensor. Offer it via HDMI. Or Canon can pull a C200 move and omit it for higher models. Take out 10-bit processing out of the equation. 4K60 can stay 8-bit. Make the camera bigger. Offer the core features for the increasing number of independent content creators: full frame, internal raw, IBIS, DPAF, and reasonable rolling shutter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 31, 2020 Administrators Share Posted January 31, 2020 Definitely a good idea to hold off on purchasing the 1D X Mark III even if you badly want one... As that camera in mirrorless form will be much better ergonomically for video. Given the choice between 8K on the EOS R6 and 4K or 5.5K on the EOS R5, I'd likely take the R5. I am also really glad about the rumours of a return to the click wheel on the back, and stills/movie mode switch instead of the touch bar, which was a bit wank. 2 hours ago, independent said: 10-bit 422 processing is demanding, which is going to be an issue with a full frame stabilized sensor. Offer it via HDMI. Panasonic S1, S1H and Leica SL2 do it internally so technology is with us already... Leica SL2 in quite a small body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Romero 2 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 SOMEWHAT OFF TOPIC QUESTION: Is there an HDMI recorder ONLY (no monitor) that is small(ish), lightweight and significantly less expensive than a Ninja V??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
independent Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 Atomos Ninja star. If you need 4k, then no. Another reason why the EOS R's HDMI out was so goofy; the Ninja V is almost as big as the camera itself. So you need to get a cage to rig it up, SSDs w/ caddies, a gimbal and tripod because the rolling shutter was so bad, and it's more trouble than it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currensheldon Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 10-bit 422 internally is a must from now on for any higher end mirrorless body. I’d much rather have that than 5.5k raw. Kisaha, meudig, kaylee and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
independent Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 I agree, but I reiterate there are some understandable reasons why canon would not. For one, they might want to protect the higher models (such as the 1DXIII and possibly the R5). They did this in the Canon C200 to distinguish it from more professional, broadcast-ready C300II. Second, this could be a physical limitation. The EOS R is a very small body. The added processing for 10-bit 422 might exceed those limits. I’m not an engineer, but the DPAF that’s unavailable in the higher frame rates of the 1DXII implies there is an added burden of that feature. Add in-body stabilization? It might just be too much. I’d take internal full frame raw as a compromise with precedent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Uzan Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 It’s supposed to be announced next week, still no reliable leaks. I don’t really know what to expect. From the current EOS R, I’d like Nocrop 4k up to 60p, 10bit 422internal, 1080p120, IBIS, and dual slot. Of course, Dual pixel in every mode. Less that 2500€ and released in april. It’s not that much, and it will hurt Sony who gave us nothing interesting for two years, Come on Canon, you can do it 😁 Dustin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trankilstef Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, Alex Uzan said: It’s supposed to be announced next week, still no reliable leaks. I don’t really know what to expect. From the current EOS R, I’d like Nocrop 4k up to 60p, 10bit 422internal, 1080p120, IBIS, and dual slot. Of course, Dual pixel in every mode. Less that 2500€ and released in april. It’s not that much, and it will hurt Sony who gave us nothing interesting for two years, Come on Canon, you can do it 😁 Not the R6, but the R5 should be announced next week. The R6 is rumored to be announced in May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted February 5, 2020 Administrators Share Posted February 5, 2020 Interesting numbering going on... R6 = aka 6D / low-light, 20 megapixel-ish body R5 = aka 5D / higher res all-rounder So Canon is sticking to their lucky numbers, with same meaning. I await the R1 (pro sports body for speed), and R7 (high-end APS-C) Juank and Alex Uzan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 10-bit internal C-Log, IBIS, and 4K no crop with decent rolling shutter And DPAF and I’m in for less than $4K. Dont care about 8K. 5.5K RAW is a “nice to have” but mostly likely impractical with media storage costs but could change. Novim and Trankilstef 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
independent Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 Those specs would severely undermine the $9,000 C300 II. RAW wouldn't be any less impractical than the RAW on the 20MP 1DX III. The less demanding RAW is more likely than 10-bit 422 on an estimated $2500 R6. Historically, it's the internal 10-bit 422 processing that has been at a premium - not RAW. Thus, the success of Atomos. Also, as far as I know, there are zero cameras that are: full-frame DPAF or equivalent autofocus IBIS internal 4K 10-bit 422 16ms rolling shutter All of those will be unprecedentedly available in a $2500 R6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 On 2/1/2020 at 4:25 AM, independent said: 20 MP full frame sensor = Raw 12-bit 5.5K @ up to 30 Internal recording is key. Nobody wants the burden of rigging an extra Atomos monitor. Won't happen while the RED lawyers are alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I'll definitely be paying attention. A canon camera with the features a Panasonic S1 has would be unbeatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said: I'll definitely be paying attention. A canon camera with the features a Panasonic S1 has would be unbeatable. Only until the S1 mk2 / Z6 mk2 gets released a few months later.... mechanicalEYE, Juank and Rinad Amir 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Just now, IronFilm said: Only until the S1 mk2 / Z6 mk2 gets released a few months later.... If Panasonic can ever get their auto focus together 🤔 Trankilstef and Juank 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
independent Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 11 hours ago, IronFilm said: Won't happen while the RED lawyers are alive The C200, C500 II, and the 1DX III would beg to differ! Canon's flavor of RAW (Cinema Raw light .CRM) is slipping through. I'm guessing they might be doing something similar to BRAW to get around the patent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Steiner Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 19 minutes ago, independent said: The C200, C500 II, and the 1DX III would beg to differ! Canon's flavor of RAW (Cinema Raw light .CRM) is slipping through. I'm guessing they might be doing something similar to BRAW to get around the patent. No, they just don‘t compress enough. Red patent is for compression ratios of 1:6 and higher. Canon Raw is 1:3 or something in that ballpark. But don‘t expect Raw on the rumored R6. It looks like this is a budget model rather than a filmmakers dream... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 4 hours ago, independent said: The C200, C500 II, and the 1DX III would beg to differ! Canon's flavor of RAW (Cinema Raw light .CRM) is slipping through. I'm guessing they might be doing something similar to BRAW to get around the patent. Well Canon and Red have cross license agreement, hence RF mount on the new Komodo and RAW Video on 1DX III. So out of all the manufacturers Canon is the only one that can make mirrorless cam with internal compressed raw video legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Steiner Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 41 minutes ago, ntblowz said: So out of all the manufacturers Canon is the only one that can make mirrorless cam with internal compressed raw video legally. So what I stated right above your post is not true then? The patent has no reference to compression ratio? I thought I had read that somewhere, but could be mistaken... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot_dp Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 5 hours ago, independent said: The C200, C500 II, and the 1DX III would beg to differ! Canon's flavor of RAW (Cinema Raw light .CRM) is slipping through. I'm guessing they might be doing something similar to BRAW to get around the patent. Canon are not doing anything special. They just don't compress beyond 5:1 or whatever the limit for the Red patent is. That's why Canon C200 files are still massive compared to BRAW or Prores Raw options. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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