Is there a better package than the g80/85 for the price?

[Kangaroo]

I was looking for a camera to shoot video on a budget and even if I'm not really into m43 I found the g80 for around 300€ used and it has a few things that I would really like to have:

• Decent build quality
• IBIS
• Nice IQ for video but 4k it's not mandatory, I shoot mainly 1080p
• Flippy screen
• Audio in

Is there an APS-C/FF with the same spec for around 500€(used)? 

In the fuji lineup the only camera with ibis is the x-h1 but it's more expensive and the only "normal" lens with OIS is the 18-55, sony has many cameras but again the price seems to be higher for the a6300/6500/6400 and the a7/a7r/a7s are not the best from what I've seen( I'm talking about the first gen models)

All canon dslrs lack ibis but there are some model with software stabilization, the iq is not the best but i think it would be enough and they have great af but spending double the money for a canon m50/70d...I don't know if it's worth 

Do you have any suggestions? 

[Mark Romero 2]

I can only really talk about the a6500 since that is the one I have experience with, and since used they might fall in to your price range.

And I am basically going to try and talk you out of contemplating an a6500.

The ibis on the a6500 is thoroughly mediocre. You get a slight improvement using IBIS in conjunction with a liens that has stabilization (called OIS in Sony parlance). But nothing compared to Panasonic or Olympus IBIS.

The a6500 has a metric tonne of rolling shutter (even with IBIS enabled). 

The 1080p of the a6500 is really bad. Not sharp, tonne of aliasing  and moire.

The LCD screen is dim and highly reflective. It is VERY difficult to use when shooting 4K or when shooting 1080p in higher frame rates.

If you are willing to shoot in SLOG 2 you will get better dynamic range than the M43 cameras by about a stop and a half or so, and I am pretty sure that the low-light capability of the a6500 is significantly better than the capabilities of ANY M43 camera (except possibly for the GH5S, which is way out of your budget). 

Also, the AF on the a6500 is VERY good. Even though it can't match the third generation of Sony aps-c cameras (a6400, a6600), it is still quite good and far better than my Panasonic S1 (faster, works better in low light, no "pulsing" in af-c).

And the 4K is very detailed, despite the drawbacks.

In short, the a6500 is an EXCELLENT stills camera, a capable but not overly pleasant 4K video camera  that performs admirably (for aps-c) in low light or scenes with a lot of contrast.

If you need a camera that will AF well and is light enough to use on an inexpensive gimbal (like the original Crane gimbal), the the a6500 might fit that bill, despite the numerous drawbacks.

The a6300 is pretty much the same as the a6500 but the a6300 lacks IBIS and lacks a touch screen.

[Amazeballs]

It's hard to beat G80 for its price. If you don't need AF or 120p it is still a pretty decent camera. Get some nice manual lenses to go along with and you will be set. 

[Dustin]

1 hour ago, Amazeballs said:

It's hard to beat G80 for its price. If you don't need AF or 120p it is still a pretty decent camera. Get some nice manual lenses to go along with and you will be set. 

This! If I didn’t already own an a6500 I would pick up this. I had thought about downsizing to it earlier this month. I don’t shoot enough to warrant switching right now. I think the g80/85 with a cheap speedbooster and some sharp primes would be the ticket for a good music video on the cheap! Do it!

[ac6000cw]

7 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

I found the g80 for around 300€ used

At that price, if it's in decent condition, just buy it... Then add a few cheap 3rd part batteries, V30 rated SDXC cards (for 4K) and some cheap but good lenses and go out and have fun!

(I own a G80, G9 and GX80 - the G9 will beat the other two hands-down for video quality but the G80 is smaller and lighter, and the GX80 is the one I usually pick up if I want to take a camera with me 'just in case'. Which one is my favorite - hard to say, it depends on the situation...)

[fuzzynormal]

I've been considering the EM10III for awhile now.  Might be worth looking into it for you as well.  It's around 300€ used too.

Personally, Olympus impressed me when I owned the EM5 and EM5II.  Liked the way the colors looked, the IBIS, and the ergonomics.

[thebrothersthre3]

Not really for the price. Olympus would be a good option too with slightly better IBIS, but you don't get a profile like CineD. 

The XT30 is a camera I always recommend but no IBIS and I don't think it has unlimited recording. You do get great ISO performance and nice Log/eterna profiles. 

[Kangaroo]

6 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I can only really talk about the a6500 since that is the one I have experience with, and since used they might fall in to your price range.

And I am basically going to try and talk you out of contemplating an a6500.

The ibis on the a6500 is thoroughly mediocre. You get a slight improvement using IBIS in conjunction with a liens that has stabilization (called OIS in Sony parlance). But nothing compared to Panasonic or Olympus IBIS.

The a6500 has a metric tonne of rolling shutter (even with IBIS enabled). 

The 1080p of the a6500 is really bad. Not sharp, tonne of aliasing  and moire.

The LCD screen is dim and highly reflective. It is VERY difficult to use when shooting 4K or when shooting 1080p in higher frame rates.

If you are willing to shoot in SLOG 2 you will get better dynamic range than the M43 cameras by about a stop and a half or so, and I am pretty sure that the low-light capability of the a6500 is significantly better than the capabilities of ANY M43 camera (except possibly for the GH5S, which is way out of your budget). 

Also, the AF on the a6500 is VERY good. Even though it can't match the third generation of Sony aps-c cameras (a6400, a6600), it is still quite good and far better than my Panasonic S1 (faster, works better in low light, no "pulsing" in af-c).

And the 4K is very detailed, despite the drawbacks.

In short, the a6500 is an EXCELLENT stills camera, a capable but not overly pleasant 4K video camera  that performs admirably (for aps-c) in low light or scenes with a lot of contrast.

If you need a camera that will AF well and is light enough to use on an inexpensive gimbal (like the original Crane gimbal), the the a6500 might fit that bill, despite the numerous drawbacks.

The a6300 is pretty much the same as the a6500 but the a6300 lacks IBIS and lacks a touch screen.

I was looking into the a6500 but where I live it's really expensive, around 700€ used, the a6300 is not that expensive but then it's around the same price as the xt20 which I would prefer

4 hours ago, Amazeballs said:

It's hard to beat G80 for its price. If you don't need AF or 120p it is still a pretty decent camera. Get some nice manual lenses to go along with and you will be set. 

I can live without the fastest AF, I realy enjoy shooting with manual lenses! 

 

37 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

At that price, if it's in decent condition, just buy it... Then add a few cheap 3rd part batteries, V30 rated SDXC cards (for 4K) and some cheap but good lenses and go out and have fun!

(I own a G80, G9 and GX80 - the G9 will beat the other two hands-down for video quality but the G80 is smaller and lighter, and the GX80 is the one I usually pick up if I want to take a camera with me 'just in case'. Which one is my favorite - hard to say, it depends on the situation...)

I previously owned the gx80 and I really liked it, especially for the size, but I was missing the mic in, I know that I could use a recorder but I'm not doing any fancy stuff so having everything in a single camera would be awesome

21 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

I've been considering the EM10III for awhile now.  Might be worth looking into it for you as well.  It's around 300€ used too.

Personally, Olympus impressed me when I owned the EM5 and EM5II.  Liked the way the colors looked, the IBIS, and the ergonomics.

I was thinking about it, it has no crop for 4k and 120fps but no mic in, I know it may sound lame, I'm not even using a very good mic but It's really convenient sometimes 😕

4 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Not really for the price. Olympus would be a good option too with slightly better IBIS, but you don't get a profile like CineD. 

The XT30 is a camera I always recommend but no IBIS and I don't think it has unlimited recording. You do get great ISO performance and nice Log/eterna profiles. 

The xt30 is really beautiful, I do really like the eterna profile, I'm currently using a x100f but I was looking for a simple and cheap setup for run and gun video stuff, I think that eventually in the future I will sell everything and I will get an xt3

[thebrothersthre3]

20 minutes ago, Kangaroo said:

I was looking into the a6500 but where I live it's really expensive, around 700€ used, the a6300 is not that expensive but then it's around the same price as the xt20 which I would prefer

I can live without the fastest AF, I realy enjoy shooting with manual lenses! 

 

I previously owned the gx80 and I really liked it, especially for the size, but I was missing the mic in, I know that I could use a recorder but I'm not doing any fancy stuff so having everything in a single camera would be awesome

I was thinking about it, it has no crop for 4k and 120fps but no mic in, I know it may sound lame, I'm not even using a very good mic but It's really convenient sometimes 😕

The xt30 is really beautiful, I do really like the eterna profile, I'm currently using a x100f but I was looking for a simple and cheap setup for run and gun video stuff, I think that eventually in the future I will sell everything and I will get an xt3

The XT30 plus a used 18-55 is surprisingly good for run and gun. The lens OIS works really well at all the focal ranges. Couldn't recommend it more. 

Whatever you get though you'll be able to make some dope stuff with. My first cameras were the GH2, than GH4 than G7. The G85 offers a lot more than those cameras and is cheaper!

[fuzzynormal]

1 hour ago, Kangaroo said:

I'm not even using a very good mic but It's really convenient sometimes

Yeah, no doubt.  But there's a lot of audio recording options these days for outboard recording w/monitoring.  A good audio solution is very important.  Been looking at the Rode GO system recently.  

FWIW, I shot a series of 6 documentaries with two GX85's, wireless mics, separate audio recording, and it worked well.  Sync'ing in post is a step, but nothing I found too daunting.

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

And I am basically going to try and talk you out of contemplating an a6500.

Good job Mark in covering some of the many negatives of the a6500!

However there are so many negatives with the a6500, no wonder you missed some of them:
1) a6500 is risky it will overheat, the G85 never will
2) a6500 lacks a flip out screen for if you wish to film yourself
3) a6500 lacks a mic input

In my opinion the Panasonic G85 still reigns supreme as best bang for buck at its price point, like all Panasonic cameras it is a well rounded camera with few if any hidden "gotchas".

 

[Mark Romero 2]

9 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Good job Mark in covering some of the many negatives of the a6500!

However there are so many negatives with the a6500, no wonder you missed some of them:
1) a6500 is risky it will overheat, the G85 never will
2) a6500 lacks a flip out screen for if you wish to film yourself
3) a6500 lacks a mic input

In my opinion the Panasonic G85 still reigns supreme as best bang for buck at its price point, like all Panasonic cameras it is a well rounded camera with few if any hidden "gotchas".

 

1) True.

2) Well, the LCD screen is so bad, it's probably a good thing that the LCD screen doesn't flip out. Helps prevent you from being blinded by the sun reflecting off the mirror-like LCD screen surface of the a6500.

3) Actually, a6500 has a mic input (but no headphone jack) and the preamps are pretty good. Not spectacular, but pretty good. And the a6500 also has the multi-interface shoe so you can use a Sony mic in the hotshoe and connect directly that way, since you know as well as anybody that the BEST mic placement for good audio is on the top of the camera

[newfoundmass]

I really can't think of a better value than the G85. What a gem of a camera! The only contender for better value would be the GX85 but it lacks the mic input and smaller battery. 

I currently shoot with the GH5 as my A-cam, the G85 as my B-cam, and the GX85 as my C-cam. Can't see much of a need for "upgrading" anytime soon! 

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

3) Actually, a6500 has a mic input (but no headphone jack) and the preamps are pretty good. Not spectacular, but pretty good. And the a6500 also has the multi-interface shoe so you can use a Sony mic in the hotshoe and connect directly that way, since you know as well as anybody that the BEST mic placement for good audio is on the top of the camera

ah my bad, I was probably thinking of the older a6x00 series which lacked a mic input I think?

And the mic input is handy for using a lav into the camera, did that for today's vlog with a Nikon D5200 / Aputure A.Lav , fingers crossed as to how that turned out. 

[Kangaroo]

Thanks to everyone! 

Do you think that there's something for less than 1000€ that has significantly better DR? I was considering having a single camera to do everything and for 900€ you could find an a7r II or and eos RP

[Mark Romero 2]

2 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

Thanks to everyone! 

Do you think that there's something for less than 1000€ that has significantly better DR? I was considering having a single camera to do everything and for 900€ you could find an a7r II or and eos RP

In terms of DR, are you talking about stills? Video? Both?

A used D750 would still be a great STILLS camera with excellent dynamic range in stills and very good if not excellent dynamic range in video. It also has excellent low-light stills ability. I didn't really use mine for low-light video so I can't say anything about it for that. 

Of course, there is no 4K, no IBIS, and video AF is a raging dumpster fire. But it was (and still is) a camera that wedding stills photographers love.

And the lack of 4K means that you are basically losing a stop or so of noise "reduction" that you would get if you shot at 4K and then down-res to 1080p.

I don't know about an a7R II. Comparing it to my Sony a6500, the ergonomics would be better, the 1080p video would be about the same (i.e., bad), and the 4K footage would probably be worse. I would have to double check but I think the R II cameras have a better LCD and EVF than the Sony aps-c cameras like the 6500 / 6300 / 6100 / 6600 / 6400, and possibly have a headphone jack. The IBIS on the R II is probably SLIGHTLY better than that of the aps-c bodies.

The IBIS isn't great, but if you combine Sony IBIS with a Sony lens that has stabilization (OSS) then it is OK. 

Does the EOS RP have IBIS? I thought it had some funky digital stabilization. 

I guess I should also mention now that I have no idea if the Canon R lenses out there have stabilization and if they do, how good they are.

By the way: Some tamron lenses have really, REALLY good stabilization (Vibration Control, in Tamron speak, designated with a VC in the lens name). At least when shooting stills. I haven't shot video with a Tamron lens that has VC though, so don't know how good it is when shooting video. If I remember correctly, they kind of make a feint but noticeable humming / whirring sound when you activate VC. No one is going to hear it during a wedding, but your onboard mic will hear it.

So MAYBE a possibility would be something like an EOS RP and a Tamron lens that has really good VC??????? 

[Kangaroo]

I'm talking about DR in video! 

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

Thanks to everyone! 

Do you think that there's something for less than 1000€ that has significantly better DR? I was considering having a single camera to do everything and for 900€ you could find an a7r II or and eos RP

 

If you're seeking DR above all else then you'll hit major other compromises. Why not just buy a Sony PMW-F3 instead? 

 

The Panasonic G85 gives you the best all over experience 

[ReinisK]

I'm also a fan of the g80. Got it for 400eur, been using it for 2 years I think, previously had the Samsung NX1 and still sometimes use it. But most of the time it's sitting in the bag, because of how much more versatile the g80 is to me.

I also don't think it can be beaten for the price. The ibis is just awesome, 4k is great, the crop doesn't bother me nearly close to what I thought it would. 1080p is usable (very similar to a6300), not great, but that's subjective probably because of the NX1 I have, which has amazing 1080p. 

I really like how the camera handles highlights, much better than the NX1. For 300 I would be tempted to grab another one 😄

Here's a music video I shot last year with the g80 and NX1. Everything is handheld with just the camera, no rigs, 1080p 50 fps g80 with 25mm f1.7, except for some 100fps shots of the NX1 and Canon FD 35 f2 and 50 f1.4.

 

[newfoundmass]

My only real complaint with the G85 is the 60p in 1080p. Wish it had a higher bit rate.