Canon EOS R5 8K monster official topic

[mechanicalEYE]

54 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

$4999, $4500 minimum. 

They know it'll do well with their current customer base while bringing back some of the customers they've lost. 

They have no reason to go lower. 

Not so sure... photographers are all over Facebook expressing feelings of being left out with the video-centric spec's being promoted so heavily first. Photography wise there are other options to consider at any price point. You go too high, and you lose the crowd who are already happy with the glass they own. To convert buyers onto RF lenses that are pretty expensive in comparison to EF versions, you'd have to consider that it would cost over 10K once you were to add a lens kit to the 4999 that you estimate. That cost opens buyers up-to many options, especially if you're talking body only. 5D price's make more sense, and that would bring more shooters back to Canon.  I have the R and the RF trinity set, but if the R wouldn't have hit huge discounts on sale I cant say that I would have invested in the R.

[Video Hummus]

15 minutes ago, mechanicalEYE said:

photographers are all over Facebook expressing feelings of being left out with the video-centric spec's

48Megapixels, 12fps mechanical and 20fps electronic, IBIS, and tracking DPAF isn’t exciting for them? Seems to be the perfect camera for landscape photographers, wedding and event photographers, and corporate shoots. It definitely isn’t a family cam or anything.

[mechanicalEYE]

15 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

48Megapixels, 12fps mechanical and 20fps electronic, IBIS, and tracking DPAF isn’t exciting for them? Seems to be the perfect camera for landscape photographers, wedding and event photographers, and corporate shoots. It definitely isn’t a family cam or anything.

I was shocked to see so many in the R groups sour about it... not sure how but I guess all the video specs made them feel forgotten.  People will always complain about anything.

[ntblowz]

24 minutes ago, mechanicalEYE said:

I was shocked to see so many in the R groups sour about it... not sure how but I guess all the video specs made them feel forgotten.  People will always complain about anything.

Consider when R came out most of the critique is on the lackluster video feature..

And now photographers are criticizing Canon for not releasing still spec.

Either way people just gonna critique no matter what.

[Video Hummus]

12 minutes ago, mechanicalEYE said:

I was shocked to see so many in the R groups sour about it... not sure how but I guess all the video specs made them feel forgotten.  People will always complain about anything.

Maybe they never thought Canon would give them what they actually wanted and not what they settled for in the R?

It definitely upsets the current state of the camera industry. Sony is the only real competitor as far as AF performance goes so it seems like the industry is going to converge around these two brands with Fuji filling in the rest.

Not really sure what Panasonic is going to do as they no longer have the resolution and FPS advantage anymore that they’ve had with the GH5 and S1H with 4K60 in MFT and now FF. In addition, 8K is, at the moment, a hard wall. Going higher becomes exponentially more impractical.

Resolutions 8K and higher become increasingly more specialized (360, volumetric imaging, sports broadcasting) and make less and less sense for consumer consumption and capture.

Thats leaves Panasonic Lumix brand in a tough position. They need to deliver trustworthy AF as good as DPAF with the best Varicam color science and high dynamic range to survive in the coming market.

[Django]

With these monster specs, Canon is really aiming at crushing the competition, and possibly flushing out Panasonic & Nikon from the FF hybrid game.

Sony are indeed the only ones that are capable of competing but that would mean making a camera with higher specs than their new FX range and that's going to be a huge dilemma for them. Heat management is also going to be a major problem for them in their current form factor, and Sony prizes themselves on their compact products, they hate the idea of going bulkier on future models (dates back from the Japanese miniaturisation philosophy on consumer electronics).

I honestly don't see any camera company challenging these specs for the forseeable future.

Its kinda nuts what Canon are achieving here!

[Kisaha]

Only we do not have the full picture yet.

I am waiting for independent reviews and personal experience to say it as it is.

Right now all we do is speculate, which is fine, but a football game finishes only when the referee whistles one last time, and right now we are in the pre game stage. We do not even have the rosters yet!

Until now there isn't a nornal priced Canon hybrid doing half of what is advertised here..

[Oliver Daniel]

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

$2999 if they are sensible and want to sell more $2000 R mount lenses

I'm predicting $4k, at these specs it's worth double but anywhere in that $3k-$4k range would be revolutionary! 

At least we know what they've been up to for 9 years. From no 24p to 8k RAW no crop DPAF. Ridiculous.  

[gt3rs]

For photography is almost a perfect camera on paper 12 fps mechanical 20 fps electronic at 45 Mpix,  if it has the DPAF of the 1Dx III it will be also very good for action and sports something that the 5d IV was never too good at. Buffer should be also very good as they can write 30 fps at 8K RAW probably at 20 fps 3:2 14 bit should be almost infinite at least in CRaw.... will probably not be blackout free, will have rolling shutter issue with the ES but for 95% of action would be good enough.

For video we need to see the recording limit (I'm betting 30min) and if and up to which fps 4k is super sampled (if it can do FF 4k 120fps super sampled it has a monster sensor and cpu) and DR. I tend to think that up to 4k 30fps is super sampled and then pixel binned but I hope to be wrong.

Not sure the R6 will be that good on video because at the Cinema event they only talked about the R5 but let see, hope to be wrong.

 

[Simon Young]

46 minutes ago, Django said:

With these monster specs, Canon is really aiming at crushing the competition, and possibly flushing out Panasonic & Nikon from the FF hybrid game.

Sony are indeed the only ones that are capable of competing but that would mean making a camera with higher specs than their new FX range and that's going to be a huge dilemma for them. Heat management is also going to be a major problem for them in their current form factor, and Sony prizes themselves on their compact products, they hate the idea of going bulkier on future models (dates back from the Japanese miniaturisation philosophy on consumer electronics).

I honestly don't see any camera company challenging these specs for the forseeable future.

Its kinda nuts what Canon are achieving here!

This represents the type of comments I will come back to when the misty eyed corona pandemic induced haze of wishful thinking goes away.

Thinking the R5 is going to outperform the C500ii for a fraction of the price is so delusional it’s heartbreaking. Do you really think the Canon engineers have somehow come up with a way to defy physics? That the R5 sensor and body will magically not be affected by or generate heat? Or that they have conjured up a 45MP sensor that has such an incredible readout speed that rolling shutter won’t be an issue? Or that they mystically now have leap frogged the Sony sensors with regards to dynamic range?

Get a fucking grip.

[JurijTurnsek]

39 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

This represents the type of comments I will come back to when the misty eyed corona pandemic induced haze of wishful thinking goes away.

Thinking the R5 is going to outperform the C500ii for a fraction of the price is so delusional it’s heartbreaking. Do you really think the Canon engineers have somehow come up with a way to defy physics? That the R5 sensor and body will magically not be affected by or generate heat? Or that they have conjured up a 45MP sensor that has such an incredible readout speed that rolling shutter won’t be an issue? Or that they mystically now have leap frogged the Sony sensors with regards to dynamic range?

Get a fucking grip.

The dragged out marketing hype campaign sure points to specs being overhyped. Seems like Canon is creating this awareness of a technologically advanced body for people to form their opinion on it before any real testing is done and then just brush away the caveats with rose colored glasses.

[Django]

Looks like my comment has got some Sony fanboys triggered. 

Canon actually had their Cinema division work hand in hand with Imaging to produce R5. That’s how they leapfrogged the competition.
 

I stand by my words, only Sony can compete in this FF hybrid battle due to their AF & sensor advancements. But they will have a hell of a hard time matching let alone trump Canon on this one.

 

2 hours ago, Simon Young said:

Thinking the R5 is going to outperform the C500ii for a fraction of the price is so delusional it’s heartbreaking. Do you really think the Canon engineers have somehow come up with a way to defy physics?

The specs are out did you not get the memo?

8K / 4K120fps + IBIS > 5.9K / 4K60p + EIS

Obviously the C500ii has a slew of other advantages that are proper to Cine cams of that price range but on resolution, HFR, stabilisation.. YES the R5 outperforms the C500ii. And on the codec front they are similar which is also unprecedented considering the C200 doesn't even have 10-bit internal. 

Log options, recording times, media, I/O, NDs etc.. obviously all goes to the C500ii.

What you can't seem to get a grasp on is that it's a first for to have a consumer line hybrid stills cam outperform a dedicated cine cam on both resolution and HFR.. as well as equate it on codecs and sensor size.

That alone is huge and a total game changer.

DR & RS? Of course it will probably still tilt towards the cine cams.

C300iii even announced a breakthrough in the DR department.

Canon aren't crazy, they will not stop developing & innovating their cine line, I never ever stated that.

Their strategy however is to stop pulling the cripple hammer on consumer division.

They've realised the +$10K cine market isn't the same as their consumer hybrids and that there is little to no risk of cannibalising these two markets. If anything, pros will buy BOTH cams for A/B purposes.

Again this is a giant game changer as far as imaging/cinema strategies within a Japanese company.

I know its hard to believe this is all coming from Canon, a brand many had lost all hopes, but it's true.

These are all FACTS, not some dreamed up unicorn A7S3 R5-Killer Sony fanboy wishful thinking.

If you don't realise that, then you're the one who should take your own advice and get a grip on reality.

[Simon Young]

@Django wow, here goes the Sony fanboy crying again - I shoot with Nikon and Fuji by the way, I hate Sony to a fault. See what you assume when you're getting all excited about how the R5 outperforms the Canon cinema line is just that, an assumption. Numbers on paper. No real world testing, no initiated information about codecs and bitrates, reliability and on and on. Who knows, the IBIS might even be botched or just plain useless, like the Sony or the X-T4. Get a fucking grip and save the panegyric for canonrumors.

[Django]

Sorry my bad.. replace butt-hurt [Sony] fanboy with [Nikon/Fuji].

[Trek of Joy]

33 minutes ago, Django said:

They've realised the +$10K cine market isn't the same as their consumer hybrids and that there is little to no risk of cannibalising these two markets. If anything, pros will buy BOTH cams for A/B purposes.

This.

We've known for a decade that all cameras have massive amounts of untapped potential thanks to Magic Lantern, every manufacturer until the R5 hasn't been willing to unlock that potential because of other product lines to protect. That approach makes no sense because it assumes the user bases overlap. They don't. That's outdated mentality from the days before hybrids when there was a huge market for camcorders, but that way of thinking clearly still exists at the corporate level.

I shoot a lot of stills and video - and I've been shooting hybrids since the 5d2 which replaced a giant kit consisting of a 40d + lenses, a Sony 1080i FX1 mini DV camera and a smaller HDV camera for cutaways and a ton of support gear. I've owned/used a ton of hybrids since including the 5d3, 5d4, GH4, NX1, a7s, a7s2, a7r2, a7r3, a73, XT2, XT3 and the EOS R. The only cine cam I've owned in that time is the OG Blackmagic Pocket and I didn't keep it for very long because at the time I owned the 5d3 and it was much more practical to shoot photos and video without juggling multiple cameras. Content creators are far more diverse than ever before, if you can deliver publishable photo and video content you're far more marketable. Every job I get is a mix of both - as such I'll likely never own a dedicated video camera again. I was just on a shoot with a number of small town restaurants that are trying to survive with current restrictions, one camera on a monopod (5d4) and one around my neck (EOS R) walking between storefronts in a small downtown area shooting a mix of stills and video.

The user base is different and high spec hybrids can co-exist with larger cine cams. Good to see Canon finally embracing this instead of dumbing down spec to segment everything.

I will likely never buy a C300, its just too cumbersome. My entire shooting kit - including a drone and gimbal - fits in a carry-on size backpack. I will be pre-ordering the R5 the second its live.

Chris

[Simon Young]

Lovely @Django. I see that you managed to cram "game changer", "cripple hammer", "FACTS" and "butt-hurt" into two posts within the hour. It reads like an over excited, underachieving Youtube shill-tard's headline. You know what people use where I work, at the national public television, besides the ENG-cameras? Panasonic GH5, Panasonic S1, Panasonic GH5s and I've seen one S1H. You know what they won't be using doing professional video work on the field? Canon R5 in 8K raw. Get a grip.

[Geoff_L]

17 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

You know what people use where I work, at the national public television, besides the ENG-cameras? Panasonic GH5, Panasonic S1, Panasonic GH5s and I've seen one S1H. You know what they won't be using doing professional video work on the field? Canon R5 in 8K raw.

A bit off topic but : this remind me of "our planet" that I finished to watch some days ago. In the BTS episode, especially the Siberian Tiger sequence, I was intrigued by something concerning the camera traps that filmed the sequences that ended in the episode "forests". Yes, they used GH4's : https://www.tshed.co.uk/2019/04/netflix-our-planet-siberian-tigers-filmed-with-the-tshed-4k-trail-camera-system/

Seeing that among cinema cameras (saw some Red), and given how this sequence captured by the Gh4's render well, it made me thinking a lot 😄

[thebrothersthre3]

The camera will be released soon so you guys won’t have to argue anymore. 

[Django]

41 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

Lovely @Django. I see that you managed to cram "game changer", "cripple hammer", "FACTS" and "butt-hurt" into two posts within the hour. It reads like an over excited, underachieving Youtube shill-tard's headline. You know what people use where I work, at the national public television, besides the ENG-cameras? Panasonic GH5, Panasonic S1, Panasonic GH5s and I've seen one S1H. You know what they won't be using doing professional video work on the field? Canon R5 in 8K raw. Get a grip.

Why are you getting so worked up bro? I gave a sensible explanation. all you seem capable of is personal insults. Who's the one not only acting insecure but immature? Nobody here care what your work buddies use/don't use. Topic isn't "Show & Tell School Day". I never had an interest in Panasonic cameras. You don't see me in Panasonic threads talking shit. Ease up or GTFOH.

[hmcindie]

2 hours ago, Simon Young said:

You know what people use where I work, at the national public television, besides the ENG-cameras? 

Are you serious? Public tv and their cam ops shooting reality. Now that means quality.