RED cameras absent from all Oscar cinematography and best picture nominees

[Marino215]

So has Arri reached critical mass?
 
And why the Cinema EOS cameras cropping up in such top flight productions? The image isn't as good as the Alexa!

$$

[miseducation]

There's actually a video about Her's use of the C300, Canon interviewed Hoyte van Hoytema about it: 

 

He says they used it primarily in scenes where the actors had to hold the camera take shots of themselves and he was happy that he was able to do that with a camera that still has a decent amount of latitude.

 

He says they shot on 800 ISO and up and realistically the c-series cameras were the only ones was out at the time that could go to toe-to-toe with the Alexa on low-light ability.

 

Form factor is definitely Canon's strong suit in this generation of cameras so it's nice to see a cinematographer think backwards from the shot he wants to take.

 

As for the C500 on the Wolf of Wall Street, NoFilmSchool had an article about how Scorsese used it primarily for the aerial scenes, thanks to its low-light advantages over film: http://nofilmschool.com/2012/12/martin-scorsese-loves-canon-right-camera-job/

 

Lastly, my comment on RED - I think Arri's dominance this year is more of a reflection of the MX sensor's relative obsolescence in terms of low-light ability when these films were shot (late 2012 to early 2013.) I'm no Red fanboy, but I would expect Dragon to help Red make its way back onto Hollywood productions.

[odie]

on another note from Sundance 2014  cameras..used so far..noted

 

2 35mm (one arri and one panavision)

3 arri alexa

3 super 16mm

1 sony f3

1 red epic..

[PANDETTA]

Shane Hurlbut(D.P. of the upcoming Need for Speed)'s camera choices for need for speed

This video shows the strongest strength of the Alexa

Check out other videos on his channel on camera test/ comparison as well

Need for Speed was shot on the C500 and the Alexa

Shane explains the reasons he chose one camera over the other very thoroughly

[Sean Cunningham]

He's also published a video showing their actual night driving tests and his conclusions are disappointing, given they're a fixation on a slight baseline lifting of shadow detail and very electronic, very video looking response to the lights in the background.  He explains why, and it's plain to see what he's reacting too, even through the youtube filter.  What's not plain to see is why he thinks it looks better having more video looking night photography for the driving/racing portions of the film while the rest of the picture looks more film-like.  More "like a movie".

 

Perhaps that's the point, I just find it distracting, evident in the trailer, and now even moreso with the camera choice in the forefront of my perception, having seen his tests.  Knowing, rather than just suspecting, has rendered me entirely uninterested in the experience despite liking Aaron Paul. 

[FilmMan]

Not the Oscars, but a lot of good movies being shot on the Red, such as  Lone Survivor, Robocop, 300 Rise of the Empire, etc. 

[3sides]

Some of this may be due to the slow Dragon roll out for the EPIC, some maybe due to the way RED has always played the INDIE film maker card, thereby not letting the major rental facilities play with their toys in the early days, and some of this is the fact ARRI has a really rock solid product right now. ARRI will also run the financing of the camera bodies and even more importantly the GLASS, for most major rental facilities. ARRI has a better operational chain for repair and body backup too.  I maybe off the mark on this last one, however, I believe the way ARRI handles the camera operations is more in line with what the unions want as well. 

 

RED is also under new leadership. You may discount this statement, however, APPLE. DELL and HP all slid in the ratings when the Name that made the company stepped aside.  I am not saying that RED is out of the game, All of these companies have had their highs and lows. 

 

I think SONY and Panasonic are struggling the most. More iPhone footage seen then any Panasonic camera. lol.  GoPro will certainly spend lots of money marketing the product line that will certainly be spun off to form their GoPROMO camera. ( I have no idea what the real name will be, it just sounds mo pro huh? 

[tehgeek]

Robocop? Good??

[pietz]

RED cameras always look amazing on paper, just the specs that come with every new version. it really gets you like: wow 4K at 200fps, thats awesome. but when it comes to picture and especially stability while shooting, nothing beats an alexa. it is just rock solid.

[fredjones2005]

The Alexa is a UNION camera.  The Oscars is a UNION event.  Only one movie "Gravity" out of top 10 high grossing movies of 2013 is nominated for best picture.   The Oscars is a UNION event.  Where they pick there UNION friends movie.  Woody Allen can put a picture of his butt on the screen for 90 minutes and he is going to get nominated for something.

 

The Alexa camera is a easy to use camera.  Much less problems with transcoding.  ARRI supports the shit out of this camera.  Red works fine (NOW) if you know how to use it.  Remember the early days of RED, there were some issues but that is the past.  I have rented both and they worked great.

 

The new RED Dragon, you can just point the camera and make sure it’s in focus.  You can relight the scene in post to whatever you want.  The latitude is amazing.  As long as the war between cameras continues we will all be the victors with more and better equipment.

[RobertoSF]

Excellent post and thread. Just moved "The Wolf of Wall Street" up on my list of films-to-see. Love the look of the Hawks, and too rarely see them in action. If budget weren't a barrier (and when is it not for us mortals) it's tempting to think of going from the GH2/Lomo to the Alexa/Hawk-V. Hawk being something of a Lomo legacy. But we'll see what gets announced/released in the next 3 months, not that I'm buying anything other than drives and editing ware

at the moment.

[bzpop]

RED cameras always look amazing on paper, just the specs that come with every new version. it really gets you like: wow 4K at 200fps, thats awesome. but when it comes to picture and especially stability while shooting, nothing beats an alexa. it is just rock solid.

i guess you shot plenty on both

[graphicnatured]

Andrew, I have a quick question. What do you know for sure on the specs of the GH 4k? How can you be sure it will be better than the BMPC? I understand Blackmagic cameras have many limitations and fewer bells and whistles, but I haven't read anything about the GH camera including RAW. I would love to read what you've heard that makes you so sure. Thanks in advance.

[odie]

Some of this may be due to the slow Dragon roll out for the EPIC, some maybe due to the way RED has always played the INDIE film maker card, thereby not letting the major rental facilities play with their toys in the early days, and some of this is the fact ARRI has a really rock solid product right now. ARRI will also run the financing of the camera bodies and even more importantly the GLASS, for most major rental facilities. ARRI has a better operational chain for repair and body backup too.  I maybe off the mark on this last one, however, I believe the way ARRI handles the camera operations is more in line with what the unions want as well. 

 

RED is also under new leadership. You may discount this statement, however, APPLE. DELL and HP all slid in the ratings when the Name that made the company stepped aside.  I am not saying that RED is out of the game, All of these companies have had their highs and lows. 

 

I think SONY and Panasonic are struggling the most. More iPhone footage seen then any Panasonic camera. lol.  GoPro will certainly spend lots of money marketing the product line that will certainly be spun off to form their GoPROMO camera. ( I have no idea what the real name will be, it just sounds mo pro huh? 

super 16mm …poor man's arri alexa

[graphicnatured]

and I'm not saying RAW is everything, which clearly it is not, but it sure is nice to have and the images I've seen from the BMPC were pretty freaking outstanding. If they can obtain this level of image, with everything else the GH line of cams can do, then yes.

[3sides]

Not quite sure why Super 16 would be considered " poor Mans Alexa " ?? are you referring to the fact that the cameras are considered such work horses?  Shows like Friday night lights, and The Walking Dead certainly could have used higher end electronic capture instead of using 16mm. I remember lots of money being poured into 16mm film shoots because it was cheaper than 35mm film, but in todays market I would personally say shooting 16mm is much more expensive than any of the others mentioned. 

The walking dead series actually uses it because of its low resolution qualities. They don't have to spend as much on the quality of the zombie makeup effects as they would if they shot digital.

[Sean Cunningham]

Absolutely. It's a mystery how this guy ever landed a job in that scale. He has such a naughty taste.

 

Well, I think he's a talented shooter of the slick Hollywood style.  I just don't understand why, in this case, he finds one set of footage more appealing.  The way the electric light is being accentuated I find so recognizable as "video" and feel they would look equally vibrant (while the rest of the frame looked worse) with any off-the-shelf camera from BestBuy.

[Guest]

Andrew, I have a quick question. What do you know for sure on the specs of the GH 4k? How can you be sure it will be better than the BMPC? I understand Blackmagic cameras have many limitations and fewer bells and whistles, but I haven't read anything about the GH camera including RAW. I would love to read what you've heard that makes you so sure. Thanks in advance.

I don't think he's said that the GH4 is going to be better than the Pocket. This question may be better posted on the appropriate article's thread (e.g. recent 4K article).  :)

[Policar]

So has Arri reached critical mass?

 

And why the Cinema EOS cameras cropping up in such top flight productions? The image isn't as good as the Alexa!

 

They have a similar "look" and both cameras are easy to use. The CX00 is very good in low light, has a similar texture and good skin tones, and is a good run-and-gun B camera and very small and reliable. The image is surprisingly very easy to intercut with the Alexa.

[Policar]

i guess you shot plenty on both

 

I have.

 

And he's right.