Canon will be announcing a new Cinema EOS camera ahead of NAB in April

[barefoot_dp]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

That would kill off the C300mk2, would be a "C300mk3"

Yeah, that's kind of what I was suggesting - a new C300. But as I said, what do you add to a camera in that price range that doesn't step all over the C500mkII, but is still an improvement over both the C200 & C300mk2? Which is why I think that camera in the rumor (between C200 & C500mkII) is unlikely.

The low end, as I said, makes sense. I agree with you that a C100mkIII would probably stay 8 bit - but it would still clean up in the low end market competing against the FS5.

[thebrothersthre3]

A C100 mk3 that’s essentially a C200 without RAW and with 10 bit out would be killer. 

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah its gonna be weird. Seems like they can't release a C100 mk3 without dethroning the C300 MK2. The C300 MK2 is such a low bar. That camera should have had 4k 60p to begin with. A C200 mk2 seems like it would compete to much with the C500 MK2. 

It is very very easy to avoid dethroning the C300mk2, just release a C200 without raw and call it "C100 mk3"

That is exactly what I've been suggesting since the start. 

The C100 mk3 then would lake both raw and 10bit, and lack all the usual pro I/O usually expected, there would be a MASSIVE gulf between it and the C300mk2

[kye]

Maybe they'll have another offering on the R5 level and wow everyone..  C900 with RAW 8K, 10-bit 6K60, 5K75, 4K120, all internal.

Of course, it would be a squillian dollars, but you know, whatever  

[gt3rs]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

It is very very easy to avoid dethroning the C300mk2, just release a C200 without raw and call it "C100 mk3"

That is exactly what I've been suggesting since the start. 

The C100 mk3 then would lake both raw and 10bit, and lack all the usual pro I/O usually expected, there would be a MASSIVE gulf between it and the C300mk2

Imo below c200 there is no real market, all taken by mirrorless, dslr etc. No big cinema camera manufacturer is currently investing in that price segment tell you something.

[IronFilm]

13 hours ago, independent said:

I don't think the C300 crowd would really demand RAW or 6K (cumbersome workflow, storage requirements), those would be more for narrative, creative projects. That crowd would prefer efficient codecs to accommodate news gathering, live events, reality/docs, etc. I also think that's why IBIS would be key for them. Goodbye easy rigs!

That's not the only reason easyrigs are used. 

They're used to redistribute the weight of the camera rig from the shoulder/back to your hips. 

They're also great for having fine control over height! You're not just stuck with whatever the height of your camera op's shoulder is. 

Makes for a very good tool indeed if you're abnormal! (too tall / too short)

  

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

Imo below c200 there is no real market, all taken by mirrorless, dslr etc. No big cinema camera manufacturer is currently investing in that price segment tell you something.

 

Canon C100mk2, Sony FS5, Panasonic EVA1 (only just!), UMP G2, JVC LS300 are all priced under the C200

The C100 and FS5 have been massive massive big sellers. I don't think that market should be ignored. (we all hope that Fujifilm won't ignore that market! Add XLR / NDs / SDI / TC to a X-T4 and add another grand or two to the price and we'd all be very happy!)

If a C200 without raw (maybe with another feature or two removed, to further cripple it. Such as removing the C200's ethernet port. Maybe remove the 120fps HD option, cap it at 60fps even in HD. Even the 4K, limit it to 30fps rather than the C200's 60fps) was released at US$3K (the current C100mk2 price) then I can be certain such a camera would be a massive massive hit with all the canon fanboys!
 

[gt3rs]

57 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

That's not the only reason easyrigs are used. 

They're used to redistribute the weight of the camera rig from the shoulder/back to your hips. 

They're also great for having fine control over height! You're not just stuck with whatever the height of your camera op's shoulder is. 

Makes for a very good tool indeed if you're abnormal! (too tall / too short)

  

 

Canon C100mk2, Sony FS5, Panasonic EVA1 (only just!), UMP G2, JVC LS300 are all priced under the C200

The C100 and FS5 have been massive massive big sellers. I don't think that market should be ignored. (we all hope that Fujifilm won't ignore that market! Add XLR / NDs / SDI / TC to a X-T4 and add another grand or two to the price and we'd all be very happy!)

If a C200 without raw (maybe with another feature or two removed, to further cripple it. Such as removing the C200's ethernet port. Maybe remove the 120fps HD option, cap it at 60fps even in HD. Even the 4K, limit it to 30fps rather than the C200's 60fps) was released at US$3K (the current C100mk2 price) then I can be certain such a camera would be a massive massive hit with all the canon fanboys!
 

So massive in sales that canon decided not to bring a new model in the last 6 years.... 3k usd cinema market in not rentable too many hybrid options...  not even sure that there is a big market for dedicated video mirrorless camera like the sh1 or A7S, this is my pure personal opinion is why we did not see yet a new A7S....

[Snowfun]

The C200 is a camera I’ve always had an eye on and was thinking of getting one this year. But with the 1dx3, R5 (and rumoured R1 next year?) and now this (whatever “this” is) it’s less straightforward than I’d like.

I’m attracted to the raw, AF, ergonomics, EF lenses & general usability of the C200. 
(Given I have a P4k which ticks the raw box, I’ll probably end up with an A7S3... a few extra € in my pocket and continued nightmares about ergonomics...)

[independent]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

That's not the only reason easyrigs are used. 

They're used to redistribute the weight of the camera rig from the shoulder/back to your hips. 

They're also great for having fine control over height! You're not just stuck with whatever the height of your camera op's shoulder is. 

Makes for a very good tool indeed if you're abnormal! (too tall / too short)

  

Watch those doorways! 

Yes easyrigs do take the weight off, but...that's essentially it. They don't do much to cut out jitter, shake, or vertical movement. I do hear good things about the Serene arm, but at that point, I'd go for steadicam. 

If your setup isn't too heavy, and I'm always looking to go lighter as a single operator, I greatly prefer shoulder mount with built-in stabilization. Just more intuitive, greater control.

But if you're way north of six feet tall...you should probably quit the camera department and do sound 😉

 

[thebrothersthre3]

12 minutes ago, independent said:

Watch those doorways! 

Yes easyrigs do take the weight off, but...that's essentially it. They don't do much to cut out jitter, shake, or vertical movement. I do hear good things about the Serene arm, but at that point, I'd go for steadicam. 

If your setup isn't too heavy, and I'm always looking to go lighter as a single operator, I greatly prefer shoulder mount with built-in stabilization. Just more intuitive, greater control.

But if you're way north of six feet tall...you should probably quit the camera department and do sound 😉

 

They are good for the handheld look. Great for something with low rolling shutter like an URSA mini or maybe pocket 4k. Not a big fan of handheld on most digital cameras due to the rolling shutter effect.

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Canon C100mk2, Sony FS5, Panasonic EVA1 (only just!), UMP G2, JVC LS300 are all priced under the C200

The C100 and FS5 have been massive massive big sellers. I don't think that market should be ignored. (we all hope that Fujifilm won't ignore that market! Add XLR / NDs / SDI / TC to a X-T4 and add another grand or two to the price and we'd all be very happy!)

If a C200 without raw (maybe with another feature or two removed, to further cripple it. Such as removing the C200's ethernet port. Maybe remove the 120fps HD option, cap it at 60fps even in HD. Even the 4K, limit it to 30fps rather than the C200's 60fps) was released at US$3K (the current C100mk2 price) then I can be certain such a camera would be a massive massive hit with all the canon fanboys!
 

I'd be mad if they didn't include 4k 60p in a pro cam. But yeah that is Canon and I am sure they'd sell regardless. 

The S1H should have been in a small cine cam form factor as well IMHO. Though it would pretty much blow the EVA1 out of the water(other than rolling shutter). 

[wolf33d]

EOS Cinema is dead. Long live R5

[currensheldon]

A C100 III would be awesome an instant buy for me if it had an RF mount, 10-bit 4k up to 30fps, and 10-bit in HD. Don't care if it has high frame rates, raw, etc as I would use it JUST for my observational doc stuff - which I always shoot in 10-bit (usually 4k) at 24fps. 

Can always have a Komodo on hand for commercial work. 

[FranciscoB]

Plus one on that. Good dynamic range with a solid codec and good sound. 4k 10 bit 422. No need for HFR.

[BenEricson]

1 hour ago, currensheldon said:

A C100 III would be awesome an instant buy for me if it had an RF mount, 10-bit 4k up to 30fps, and 10-bit in HD. Don't care if it has high frame rates, raw, etc as I would use it JUST for my observational doc stuff - which I always shoot in 10-bit (usually 4k) at 24fps. 

Can always have a Komodo on hand for commercial work. 

This is literally the C300 Mk2 with a different mount.

[thebrothersthre3]

44 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

This is literally the C300 Mk2 with a different mount.

That’s what he said C300 if it had a different mount 

[BenEricson]

2 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

That’s what he said C300 if it had a different mount 

And I am saying, Canon won’t make that camera because it basically already exists. 

[IronFilm]

22 hours ago, gt3rs said:

So massive in sales that canon decided not to bring a new model in the last 6 years....

Canon isn't necessarily known for making sane decisions....  or at least, ones we like!

[IronFilm]

17 hours ago, independent said:

Yes easyrigs do take the weight off, but...that's essentially it. They don't do much to cut out jitter, shake, or vertical movement. I do hear good things about the Serene arm, but at that point, I'd go for steadicam. 

They're very different beats, steadicam vs easyrig. If there is no walking around (or minimal), then (heh, if I could pick! ha, I'm not really at that level though) I'd go for easyrig over steadicam. 

Lots of movement? Of course steadicam (or gimbal)

 

  

17 hours ago, independent said:

But if you're way north of six feet tall...you should probably quit the camera department and do sound 😉

Indeed I am! Well well over 6 foot. 

And I say the same about some of my mates who are "tall" but not doing sound! Wasted opportunity. 

[barefoot_dp]

On 2/27/2020 at 10:28 PM, gt3rs said:

So massive in sales that canon decided not to bring a new model in the last 6 years....

Why release a new model when your old one is still selling so well?

19 hours ago, independent said:

Yes easyrigs do take the weight off, but...that's essentially it. They don't do much to cut out jitter, shake, or vertical movement. I do hear good things about the Serene arm, but at that point, I'd go for steadicam.

Easyrigs are great for removing jitter/shake because they let gravity do the work. It's easy to shoot steady even at 135mm without IS. They also add a third (or fourth) point of contact no matter what angle you shoot from. They also make the camera the fulcrum so when the operator turns the camera, it is an actual pan or tilt. With handheld cameras, the camera operator often has to turn their entire upper body and the camera moves in an arc which can look very strange. The downside of easyrigs is they actually add shake when the operator walks. You do get a pretty wide range of movement though and you can simulate a push/slider/crane shot while still keeping your feet planted.

A steadycam is a very different tool with a very different purpose. You lose the abilty to zoom quickly, you cant touch the lens or camera to adjust things without ruining a shot,  you're limited in how much you can change the camera height without stopping and flipping into under-slung mode, and you're usually shooting on a pretty flat plane (it's hard to shoot a low angle looking up, for example). Easyrig and steadycam each have their own issues, but neither is a direct replacement for the other.

[currensheldon]

12 hours ago, BenEricson said:

This is literally the C300 Mk2 with a different mount.

Except that camera is unwieldy and heavy and just has a terrrrrible design. The C100 series (and C200 and C500 II) are just way better designed. 
 

if Canon wants to keep rolling, they need to be OK with cannibalizing the C300 II, a camera that was way under specced at its release 5 years ago. 
 

With all the competition and a new RF Mount with amazing lenses they want to sell, would be real dumb to protect the C300 at this point.