Canon will be announcing a new Cinema EOS camera ahead of NAB in April

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, BrooklynDan said:

For actual dramatic, narrative material, easyrigs are used much less.

When you've got budget for a grip/AC to minimize each and every second the camera spends on your shoulder, then yeah an easyrig is going to be used less. 

[barefoot_dp]

On 3/8/2020 at 3:08 AM, independent said:

Interesting. What "sets of Netflix series" have you have worked on that used easyrigs? 

 

On 3/11/2020 at 3:52 AM, independent said:

As for you, personally, I find your own arguments weak

 

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question, which I've asked twice, about what cameras and types of sets you're witnessing in New York. All you've done is post a whole lot of images you found on the web of people not in New York not using easy rigs. It's not exactly hard for me to do the same and post pictures of people who are using them.

As I already said, my observations are from a 1AC perspective shooting commercials and some drama in Australia. For more context, these are not Hollywood shoots. These are ads, content, short films and sometimes a series. These are sets where the DP and the operator are the same person. They're usually 'modern' sets in the sense that most of the crew are under 40 and have only ever worked with digital. They're also sets where every minute counts (usually as a result of ever decreasing budgets) and so the director often opts for a handheld aesthetic because it is currently popular and allows more shots per day with fewer crew. And in those situations, Easyrig is the tool of choice most of the time.
 

On 3/11/2020 at 12:09 AM, BrooklynDan said:

Easyrigs get rented a lot, but mostly to commercials and branded content. They work great for getting that spontaneous, free-floating handheld look, shot-from-the-hip style that's prevalent now in ads

Yep, that's pretty much my experience. Careful what you say though, you might get accused of spreading horseshit and misinformation by someone who refuses to back up their own comments!

[independent]

6 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question, which I've asked twice, about what cameras and types of sets you're witnessing in New York.

 

 

[Trek of Joy]

I have to say this is an interesting discussion. I've actually been shopping for one of the knockoff Easyrig's after working with a few crews that used them extensively. The production houses I work with are all smaller shops or in-house teams for ad agencies, but they're pretty commonplace here in Florida. All of the recent VISIT FLORIDA ads were shot with Red's floating on Easyrigs, or Red's mounted on Ronin's floating on Easyrigs - because its hot as balls with lots of humidity and carrying around a 30-pound setup all day is an exercise in torture. I like the look you can get from one too, more natural handheld with smaller cameras instead of that floaty gimbal look (I also shoot a lot with a gimbal, not knocking it at all). Its another tool in the toolbox. I have not shot any series/film stuff, strictly commercials and promo videos for the web/social.

As to the new cinema camera, anyone think Canon is going to go IBIS or RF mount?

Chris

[currensheldon]

I’m really hoping for an RF Mount. 
 

i am really hoping for a full frame C300II that is basically a C500II but without the 6k and with the addition of an RF Mount and 120fps in 4k. 
 

[barefoot_dp]

10 hours ago, independent said:

 

 

Well, of course I don't know what humor is. I'm Australian and we only have humour. Although I was once involved in a humerus situation - luckily my free healthcare took care or it though!

I do know what Irony is though. It's something along the lines of calling someone out for not naming a specific Netflix production, while claiming you've answered the question adequately by mentioning "productions from Netflix" 😂

[barefoot_dp]

34 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

I’m really hoping for an RF Mount. 
 

i am really hoping for a full frame C300II that is basically a C500II but without the 6k and with the addition of an RF Mount and 120fps in 4k. 
 

I'm quite happy with EF mount for the moment - after years of using lens adapters I'm looking forward to never having my aperture suddenly bug out, or constantly wondering  if a certain lens needs extra support because it has the adapter in between.

120fps in 4K is what I am really looking forward to seeing on more cameras though.

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

As to the new cinema camera...

Huh? Don't be going off topic! I thought this thread was a discussion about the anti-easyrig brigade vs the easyrig fanboys?

[independent]

17 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

Well, of course I don't know what humor is. I'm Australian and we only have humour. Although I was once involved in a humerus situation - luckily my free healthcare took care or it though!

I do know what Irony is though. It's something along the lines of calling someone out for not naming a specific Netflix production, while claiming you've answered the question adequately by mentioning "productions from Netflix" 😂

Are you lost? I just posted photos that depicted the dominance of shoulder-mounted handheld shooting (and the absence of easyrigs) on major film and TV sets. Just go back a page.

If you mean personally, I moved into NYC over a decade ago to work for a major media company, which eventually led me to work or visit sets for Boardwalk Empire, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, a couple Food Network shows, and quite a few commercials from HP to local companies. I also live within walking distance to a few studios, and I've either done work or visited them often. I also live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn where they shoot every weekend on some street, including Aziz Ansari's Master of None, Girls, Mr. Robot, etc. How many easyrigs have I seen? Not many. I also live close to Vice, where one of my friends works. He's the one who introduced me to easyrigs, and I thought they were more trouble than they were worth, but that's just my opinion. 

Unfortunately, you and the other guy are committing the classic logical error of generalizing based on your extremely narrow perspective: "I use an easy rig. That other guy uses an easy rig. Therefore, everybody is using easy rigs." 

No, most guys are not using easyrigs. Again, you said, "when shooting dramas or commercials, I'd say most guys are using an easyrig more than a tripod or dolly these days"

Yes, that's pure, organic, grass-fed bullshit. Enjoy whatever you like, but don't spread misinformation about the industry.

[independent]

12 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Huh? Don't be going off topic! I thought this thread was a discussion about the anti-easyrig brigade vs the easyrig fanboys?

Truly don’t care about personal preference. Everybody has an hole in his ass. Just not a fan of misinformation, or more generally, people not knowing what they’re talking about. Plenty of that going around the world already. 

[barefoot_dp]

11 hours ago, independent said:

No, most guys are not using easyrigs. Again, you said, "when shooting dramas or commercials, I'd say most guys are using an easyrig more than a tripod or dolly these days"

I like how you conveniently left out the part where I said it was my experience working as an AC, so that you can accuse me of making generalisations. Perhaps what we can all learn from this is that there are big differences across different styles and markets. And that some people don't like their world views being challenged.

I also really like that you accuse Australians of having no sense of humour, (sorry, the precise quote was "humor") and then go off like a firecracker when I made a joke.

And, as I noted, showing me lots of photos of guys not shooting with easyrigs is not exactly definitive proof of anything. The internet is littered with photos of all sorts of things. I could probably find a collection of photographs of Ukrainian teenagers dressed as pirates, but I'm sure you would not take that as proof that pirate attire is the dominant fashion trend amongst Ukranian teenagers.
 

[ntblowz]

New info

https://www.canonrumors.com/even-with-nab-cancelled-canon-still-plans-to-announce-a-new-cinema-camera-shortly/

 

Could be C300 III, same body form as C500 II and does 4K120P internal, S35 sensor.  Hopefully that 4K120P is DPAFed..

[IronFilm]

18 hours ago, independent said:

Unfortunately, you and the other guy are committing the classic logical error of generalizing based on your extremely narrow perspective: "I use an easy rig. That other guy uses an easy rig. Therefore, everybody is using easy rigs." 

Are you doing any different? You're also just saying how you don't see them around yourself. 

I'm saying in a number of production niches they're quite common, and I do see them around. 
Heck, on the latest film I worked on earlier this week they had a readyrig (the close cousin to the easyrig) there on set! It wasn't used on this particular film. But it was setup and standing by, ready (ha!) to be used. 

 

  

2 hours ago, ntblowz said:

New info

https://www.canonrumors.com/even-with-nab-cancelled-canon-still-plans-to-announce-a-new-cinema-camera-shortly/

Why are there these people in this thread who keep on going off topic??

Now, let's get back to the matter at hand: discussing easyrigs

[FranciscoB]

I'm guessing the c500 will keep fullframe and the other models will maintain s35.

[ntblowz]

https://www.canonrumors.com/possible-canon-cinema-eos-c300-mark-iii-update-cr2/

 

So 4K120p with DPAF, and 2K up to 150p.  Wished the 2K could go over 200p.

[barefoot_dp]

If all of that is actually true, I'd expect them to price it pretty close to the C500mkII.

Instead of offering clearly tiered products, they'll essentially have two flagships - neither of which does all of what you want, and you'll be forced to choose between 6K/FF vs s35/4K120p. Kind of like the old days of the 1d/1ds before they merged them into the 1dx.

[gt3rs]

8 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

If all of that is actually true, I'd expect them to price it pretty close to the C500mkII.

Instead of offering clearly tiered products, they'll essentially have two flagships - neither of which does all of what you want, and you'll be forced to choose between 6K/FF vs s35/4K120p. Kind of like the old days of the 1d/1ds before they merged them into the 1dx.

My guess is somewhere in between C200 and C500 II maybe at 11k if you want the FF look mostly for movie you get the 500 II if more doc action etc C300 III with s35..... c200 is the entry level... let see

[currensheldon]

On 4/6/2020 at 6:23 AM, barefoot_dp said:

If all of that is actually true, I'd expect them to price it pretty close to the C500mkII.

Instead of offering clearly tiered products, they'll essentially have two flagships - neither of which does all of what you want, and you'll be forced to choose between 6K/FF vs s35/4K120p. Kind of like the old days of the 1d/1ds before they merged them into the 1dx.

I think it will be closer to the FX9 and be priced around $12k. The lack of 6k, 6k 60fps, 6k raw, and a full-frame sensor is reason enough to drop it down $4-5k from C500 II.

120fps in 4K doesn't make up for all of those omissions for people who want those things, but is definitely the feature I want more compared to any of the others outside of a full-frame sensor. Would never use 6k raw due to file sizes and 4k is more than enough 99% of the time. Just hope the 120fps is included in the 4k 10-bit and not just raw.

Really, really wish it were full-frame though. Working with full-frame lenses is just so much simpler and easier than trying to find decent, affordable (under $3k) Super35/APS-C lenses. The Sigma 18-35mm is really the only great, affordable lens in the range and doesn't have stabilization or near enough range for most doc-stuff.

 

[IronFilm]

13 hours ago, currensheldon said:

Really, really wish it were full-frame though. Working with full-frame lenses is just so much simpler and easier than trying to find decent, affordable (under $3k) Super35/APS-C lenses. The Sigma 18-35mm is really the only great, affordable lens in the range and doesn't have stabilization or near enough range for most doc-stuff.

I don't see the big problem, as every FF lens ever made also works on S35

If your problem is a lack of good wide angle options, then just grab yourself a Tokina 11-20mm f2.8 or similar

 

[currensheldon]

14 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I don't see the big problem, as every FF lens ever made also works on S35

If your problem is a lack of good wide angle options, then just grab yourself a Tokina 11-20mm f2.8 or similar

 

Yes, but in most fast-paced environments or observational documentary, an 11-20 is not a good range. And 36-105mm f4 equivalent isn't really either. And you often don't have a chance to change lenses. That's what is frustrating with Super35 on most cinema cameras. For set-up shoots, music videos, narrative ,etc - no big deal. But for fast-paced stuff, the lens options are pretty frustrating.

Fuji is the only maker with a great range, but they don't make a dedicated video camera. Sony's range is OK (better with the 16-55mm f2.8, but NO stabilization?!), but not a fan of Sony's image. 

Oh well.