Vivitar Macro vs Voigtlander Focar A, B

[HockeyFan12]

Having difficulty locating 95mm Focar A and B diopters and was wondering how the Vivitar Macro pack for much less money at B&H would compare...

What are the strengths of Focar A and B? 

[leslie]

@Tito Ferradans might be the man to ask, he's like the guru with the mojo, i'm sure he'll turn up sometime shortly.  

[Tito Ferradans]

12 hours ago, leslie said:

@Tito Ferradans might be the man to ask, he's like the guru with the mojo, i'm sure he'll turn up sometime shortly.  

I heard my name, so I here I am!

I have never used the Focars, but their price is a bit unrealistic. They're +1 and +2 (A and B respectively). What I have experienced using cheaper diopters though is severe degradation of the image towards the edges. It's harder to see with the weakest +1, but if you keep your eyes peeled, you should be able to notice it. I noticed it while shooting tests for the Vazen 40mm, Sirui and other more recent tests.

Regardless of brand, it's still super hard to find a huge fractional diopter...

 

[HockeyFan12]

4 hours ago, Tito Ferradans said:

I heard my name, so I here I am!

I have never used the Focars, but their price is a bit unrealistic. They're +1 and +2 (A and B respectively). What I have experienced using cheaper diopters though is severe degradation of the image towards the edges. It's harder to see with the weakest +1, but if you keep your eyes peeled, you should be able to notice it. I noticed it while shooting tests for the Vazen 40mm, Sirui and other more recent tests.

Regardless of brand, it's still super hard to find a huge fractional diopter...

 

Thanks, Tito. I just missed a $60 Focar A on eBay. There are a few available with a Zoomar right now, too. 

But it sound like if they're just +1 and +2, the main advantage over the Vivitar 95mm is older coatings that match the character of older lenses? I was hoping the A would be fractional, or they would be doublets for the price.

I was planning to use these with the 95mm Raf adapter on an old Lomo square front. There are lomo diopters that look higher quality on eBay for about $900 but you need to drill a hole into the front of the lomo lens I think?

Do you have any recommendations? Maybe I only need a +1 after all....

[Tito Ferradans]

32 minutes ago, HockeyFan12 said:

Thanks, Tito. I just missed a $60 Focar A on eBay. There are a few available with a Zoomar right now, too. 

But it sound like if they're just +1 and +2, the main advantage over the Vivitar 95mm is older coatings that match the character of older lenses? I was hoping the A would be fractional, or they would be doublets for the price.

I was planning to use these with the 95mm Raf adapter on an old Lomo square front. There are lomo diopters that look higher quality on eBay for about $900 but you need to drill a hole into the front of the lomo lens I think?

Do you have any recommendations? Maybe I only need a +1 after all....

There are several sizes of Focars, so be careful to get the 95mm version, and not the small ones - which are cheap.

As far as I know they are NOT doublets nor fractionals.

I once managed to grab a 4x4 +0.8 Tiffen diopter but I haven't seen any other mentions of it since then.

Another option is to get Tiffen/Schneider 4.5" (114mm) or 138mm diopters. These are plentiful and can be found for cheap when used. There's a +0.5 and a set of two or three will still be cheaper than the LOMO crazy diopters anywhere else. These Tiffen or Schneider have pretty neutral coatings so they don't impart any character on the lenses behind them. Another advantage of the extra-large size is that you'll avoid most of the edge areas where quality drops the most.

You'll have to put on your 3d modeler hat and cobble together a holder for them though, since they're not threaded.

[HockeyFan12]

2 hours ago, Tito Ferradans said:

There are several sizes of Focars, so be careful to get the 95mm version, and not the small ones - which are cheap.

As far as I know they are NOT doublets nor fractionals.

I once managed to grab a 4x4 +0.8 Tiffen diopter but I haven't seen any other mentions of it since then.

Another option is to get Tiffen/Schneider 4.5" (114mm) or 138mm diopters. These are plentiful and can be found for cheap when used. There's a +0.5 and a set of two or three will still be cheaper than the LOMO crazy diopters anywhere else. These Tiffen or Schneider have pretty neutral coatings so they don't impart any character on the lenses behind them. Another advantage of the extra-large size is that you'll avoid most of the edge areas where quality drops the most.

You'll have to put on your 3d modeler hat and cobble together a holder for them though, since they're not threaded.

Thanks. Have you tired the Vivitar ones:

They perform well here, but I would want neutral coatings like you describe. I wouldn't want green modern flares mixed with vintage lomo flares so much.

Those are good suggestions. Leica makes a diopter, too, but it's a bit expensive...

The 114mm and 138mm options are way more plentiful than I realized. Would rather find something smaller but those seem really useful.

What about this:

https://www.rapidotechnology.com/products/close-up-lens/86mm-achromatic-diopter-0-5

[Tito Ferradans]

The Rapido seems good. I haven't tried it yet, or heard from anyone that got it.

I have two sets of Vivitars (86 and 52), and had the 95mm too. They all suffer the same issues around the corners, especially past the +1. You can kind of see that in the video, the +4 and +10 shots definitely don't feel in focus. The DOF is too thin and it's virtually impossible to get anything. You really have to stop the lenses down.

[HockeyFan12]

57 minutes ago, Tito Ferradans said:

The Rapido seems good. I haven't tried it yet, or heard from anyone that got it.

I have two sets of Vivitars (86 and 52), and had the 95mm too. They all suffer the same issues around the corners, especially past the +1. You can kind of see that in the video, the +4 and +10 shots definitely don't feel in focus. The DOF is too thin and it's virtually impossible to get anything. You really have to stop the lenses down.

Thanks again, I might try it (and look for a century 86mm +1.6) but I worry the deep threads would vignette on a Lomo 50mm square front and with the Raf adapter, but have no way of knowing.

The lomo squarefront focuses to 1.5m I think, which is pretty bad (5 feet). With a +0.5 or +1 diopter do you know what the new range would be?

Also it is not a good lens optically, it is not sharp around the edges to start with. So I don't know if that means it needs all the help it can get or if the cheaper diopters wouldn't make much of a difference when it's already so bad. Thanks again, I value and appreciate the expertise. 

[Tito Ferradans]

9 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

Thanks again, I might try it (and look for a century 86mm +1.6) but I worry the deep threads would vignette on a Lomo 50mm square front and with the Raf adapter, but have no way of knowing.

50mm is pretty long and it should be ok if you're shooting S35 - unless you're pushing the limits.

9 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

The lomo squarefront focuses to 1.5m I think, which is pretty bad (5 feet). With a +0.5 or +1 diopter do you know what the new range would be?

My calculator has a tab for diopters. It's simple math, but getting min focus by hand can be mildly annoying

9 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

Also it is not a good lens optically, it is not sharp around the edges to start with. So I don't know if that means it needs all the help it can get or if the cheaper diopters wouldn't make much of a difference when it's already so bad. Thanks again, I value and appreciate the expertise. 

.Hahahahaha! Good point. I guess it's a creative choice. Personally I'd go for the "it needs all the help it can get", but depending on the project you can easily get away with it being blown to smudges.

[HockeyFan12]

On 3/3/2020 at 9:36 PM, Tito Ferradans said:

50mm is pretty long and it should be ok if you're shooting S35 - unless you're pushing the limits.

My calculator has a tab for diopters. It's simple math, but getting min focus by hand can be mildly annoying

.Hahahahaha! Good point. I guess it's a creative choice. Personally I'd go for the "it needs all the help it can get", but depending on the project you can easily get away with it being blown to smudges.

Thanks. It looks like a +0.5 is a necessity on the lomo. It only focuses to 1.5 meters so with a +1 you're missing the 1-1.5 meter range entirely.

So the Focars, if they are +1 and +2, are not a good option except as a supplement.

I talked with Raf and he thinks the 86mm might vignette as the original lomo diopter lenses are 93mm. I can custom order a Schneider +0.5 close up filter (single element) for a lot of money, but otherwise I can't find any good options. Do you know of any? If not no worries, appreciate all the help and will be confident getting the Schneider that it's the best option.

[heart0less]

This popped up only today.

 

Unfortunately, it's 82 mm..

[Tito Ferradans]

9 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

Thanks. It looks like a +0.5 is a necessity on the lomo. It only focuses to 1.5 meters so with a +1 you're missing the 1-1.5 meter range entirely.

So the Focars, if they are +1 and +2, are not a good option except as a supplement.

I talked with Raf and he thinks the 86mm might vignette as the original lomo diopter lenses are 93mm. I can custom order a Schneider +0.5 close up filter (single element) for a lot of money, but otherwise I can't find any good options. Do you know of any? If not no worries, appreciate all the help and will be confident getting the Schneider that it's the best option.

Series 9 are unthreaded 86mm, so maybe you can get some wiggle room there? They are usually cheap enough that you could order just for trying, and they have +0.5. If you wanna be extra safe - and extra large - 4.5" and 138mm also exist, or look for the elusive +0.8 4x4 I found once.

7 hours ago, heart0less said:

This popped up only today.

Unfortunately, it's 82 mm..

I'm a bit skeptical and would only believe after seeing results and comparisons...