COVID19 Kibosh

[fuzzynormal]

27 minutes ago, sanveer said:

I read another report or watched some news saying that the FDA was to be blamed partially.

Where?  On a Facebook post?  If you can't source it, don't say it.

[sanveer]

Just now, fuzzynormal said:

So, in all seriousness, do you really believe this?  

I mean, I suppose if you bounce around the lefty crackpot websites that are the equivalent of "InfoWars," you might dig up some nonsense, but otherwise? You gotta show your work on this one.  I only to give the rest of us an idea where these sorts of assertions are coming from.

You'd be surprised, but CNN and the BBC are available to most of the world. One doesn't even have to watch them for hours, to figure out the direction of the narrative for the day. 

 

[fuzzynormal]

1 minute ago, sanveer said:

One doesn't even have to watch them for hours, to figure out the direction of the narrative for the day. 

That's like, your opinion, man.  

But, really, I'm inquiring about your specific example.

[sanveer]

5 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Where?  On a Facebook post?  If you can't source it, don't say it.

"So, in all seriousness, do you really believe this?  

I mean, I suppose if you bounce around the lefty crackpot websites that are the equivalent of "InfoWars," you might dig up some nonsense, but otherwise? You gotta show your work on this one.  I only to give the rest of us an idea where these sorts of assertions are coming from."

 

You seem to be aware of all possible sources, for everyone, including all manner of conspiracy sites, that you're very aware of. I am not on Facebook, haven't really used it for about 3 years now. You're obviously very active there, and all your sources seem to stem from here, or one of the conspiracy sites you keep mentioning. Maybe you run a few of these. 

[fuzzynormal]

28 minutes ago, sanveer said:

You seem to be aware of all possible sources, for everyone, including all manner of conspiracy sites, that you're very aware of. I am not on Facebook, haven't really used it for about 3 years now. You're obviously very active there, and all your sources seem to stem from here, or one of the conspiracy sites you keep mentioning. Maybe you run a few of these. 

Well, that's pretty much just a straightforward insult, not an answer.  I'm legit asking you in good faith here.  I'm willing to debate, to a point.

You're welcome to read the posts I'm made earlier in this thread regarding sourcing if you want to know the kind of things I read.  In the meantime, I'm challenging you a little bit because all I want is a serious response to why you believe the things you say you do.  You don't have to have try to convince me of anything or worry about me doing the same to you, I just want to know what forms your opinion. I'm not much of a rhetorical "scoreboard" guy.

Hoo boy, with freelance gigs drying up, I do want to be careful I don't go down the internet rabbit hole with my time.  More productive things to do really.  

[Henry Ciullo]

10 hours ago, sanveer said:

 

 

It's a mystery why Italy has handled the crisis so badly. Or maybe the Politicians in Italy are busy doing the Bulosconi, with illegal money and underaged girls, and that's why they have Done Almost Nothing to fight the Pandemic. Hopefully, once this gets over, heads will roll (they should probably introduce the guillotine again). 

Guillotine was a French invention.. unfortunately in italy they wouldn't allow it..

Italian politicians are all idiots that only think about gaining power and keeping their asses on a good chair (last 3 governments were NOT elected by us..)

One of the poliical leaders was joking and laughing on tv about the virus at the end of february, saying it was just hype... now he is infected.

We still have open borders, boats still arrive from africa with refugees. We have no border control, beacuse we are not racists...

Italians DO NOT follow rules, we always think we know better. Even if we are in shutdown there are still trains running from northern part of the country (where it all started) to the south of the country.. where they have even worse health care.....

Masks are disappeared from every shop.. even medical staff have them numbered..

Our popoluation is very old.. and the elderly are the most stubborn..there's no way you can keep them at home...

 

 

[mercer]

I'll probably kick myself for joining this "conversation" but here I go.

As an American, I believe in American Exceptionalism. Every POTUS, no matter their party or ideology, is and was my President.

It is pretty much a fact at this point that the lower numbers of infection, as of now, are due to closing our border to China when the government did it.

This comparison with Italy is fear mongering journalism at best. It's my understanding that Italy has the second oldest population in the world, have 100,000 Chinese migrant workers in Northern Italy, and have one of the worst, if not the worst, healthcare systems in Europe.

If anything, Italy's situation could be an example that Universal Healthcare, on a large scale, is a failure.

If people want to believe their news source of choice, then by all means, believe it. But I will ask this... in 2009 when H1N1 was sweeping the world with 1 billion cases, why wasn't there the panic that there is today? Why wasn't it reported about as much? President Obama, and his administration, was praised for their response, yet President Trump has done more than his predecessor with Covid-19 than was done for H1N1 and he is ridiculed. 

With that said, in these times I really don't think this should be a pissing match. I have to assume that every leader, from every country, are doing their best for their citizens.

[Emanuel]

Have you ever been in Italy, Glenn?

You know what the problem of Italy is?

Nothing about the Italian healthcare, the best doctors are in Italy too ; ) The most touristic country of the world (and the most beautiful BTW) + lack of centralized power in Europe à la Américaine.

Here is our beef, we had to close the borders when Macau did and we didn't.

Not because makes sense to have them or have them closed then. BUT for sure, when there's a crisis of such magnitude to pop up... and people ignore the only way to understand it.

If this Scriba of yours now would be the leader Europe doesn't have, this wouldn't be happening right now...

...and I am no one, just someone with brains to figure out where the mess or misfortune is.

E : -)

[fuzzynormal]

55 minutes ago, mercer said:

when H1N1 was sweeping the world with 1 billion cases, why wasn't there the panic that there is today? Why wasn't it reported about as much? President Obama, and his administration, was praised for their response, yet President Trump has done more than his predecessor with Covid-19 than was done for H1N1 and he is ridiculed.

I think it really comes down to perceived competence and assurances, rightly or wrongly.  That comes from the CDC, WHO, POTUS.

You mentioned lower numbers of initial infection, but exponential infection rates don't really care about starting from a low value.  It's an "It only takes one" sort of situation to get that ball rolling.  

As for swine flu, H1N1 has a much lower case fatality rate of 0.01-0.08%. It does not disproportionately infect adults older than 60 years. H1N1 was spread out across the age spectrum. Weirdly, the CDC's experience with H1N1 is one of the reasons scientists are more on edge now-a-days.  Perhaps it was ignorance before, wisdom now.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/10/covid-19-gets-bad-are-we-prepared-for-triage/

The pulmonary infection among the elderly is a big deal with COVID.  I lost my Dad a year ago to a pulmonary fibrosis disease.  Being in the ICU on a ventilator is serious business.  It's not just a cold compress to the head and two Tylenol.

So that's why there's alarm bells ringing with COVID.  Experts are saying one thing and Donald is, well, just being himself and saying his typical random musings.  We all know those musings are not fact based.  So, no assurances.  If Trump's opinion about COVID aligned with the scientific facts/assertions, sure there would be people still grousing about him, but that's not what's happening here.

I'll tell you this, if I'm wrong and Donald Trump has somehow been right about all the random stuff he's said regarding COVID over the past 4 weeks, that'll be the most delicious crow I've eaten in a long time.  

In the meantime, we all know what he was saying about COVID before Friday. And many on the right were happy to be all jokey jokey about things.  Now that's it's a national emergency his supporters have instantly pivoted to this being "serious" all of a sudden.  So it's a bit maddening to those of us less forgiving of his tendencies.

For instance, he had a conference call with the nation's governors this morning.  Standard Trump things ensued. A transactional mindset was once again at the forefront.  He told them to buy medical supplies themselves to get stuff faster.  Afterwards the gov. of New York let loose with this:  https://www.militarytimes.com/2020/03/16/ny-governor-calls-on-national-guard-army-corps-of-engineers-to-increase-role-in-coronavirus-response/

Take it as you will, but it's not just me, random guy on the internet, worried about Trump's capability to actually govern when it matters.

[Emanuel]

Different strokes for different folks only applies when apples to oranges ; -)

[mercer]

4 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

The fact is that H1N1 has a much lower case fatality rate of 0.01-0.08%

Well, the mortality rate will drop as more people become infected.

[fuzzynormal]

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

Well, the mortality rate will drop as more people become infected.

The biggest irony is that if the best case scenario unfolds and we're able to pump the breaks on COVID, many people will assume everything that's about to happen in the next two weeks was all an over-reaction. 

[Emanuel]

Just now, mercer said:

Well, the mortality rate will drop as more people become infected.

How's that math, buddy? : ) It is proportional...

[mercer]

1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

How's that math, buddy? : ) It is proportional...

Exactly. It is proportional. As more people get infected, that will include healthier people who will not die, so the number of deaths will level out in proportion to the number of infected. 

[Emanuel]

15 minutes ago, mercer said:

Exactly. It is proportional. As more people get infected, that will include healthier people who will not die, so the number of deaths will level out in proportion to the number of infected. 

As matter of fact, it is rather the opposite, the more people infected, the more lack of mechanical ventilation and lack of medical staff to treat people in critical condition. Many more people to die.

You Americans are funny, you see Europe from another planet... : ) I guess that's why Hollywood will always struggle to realize what realism is ; -)

[fuzzynormal]

3 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

the more people infected, the more lack of mechanical ventilation and lack of medical staff to treat people in critical condition.

Of course that really depends on the distribution rate of contagion, not necessarily the sum of contagion. Which is why The WHO and CDC recommend self-isolation, to slow the spread and keep the finite number of hospitals beds/services available as much as possible.

[Emanuel]

2 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Of course that really depends on the distribution rate of contagion, not necessarily the sum of contagion. Which is why The WHO and CDC recommend self-isolation, to slow the spread and keep the finite number of hospitals beds/services available as much as possible.

Exactly. The only way to stop it. There's no vaccine yet, so remains the quarantine.

[mercer]

4 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

As matter of fact, it is rather the opposite, the more people infected, the more lack of mechanical ventilation and lack of medical staff to treat people in critical condition. Many more people to die.

This outlook is based on the notion that most people that get infected will need mechanical ventilation or even medical care at a facility. As of now, only a portion of the population will need those measures.

7 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

You Americans are funny, you see Europe from another planet... : ) I guess that's why Hollywood has no idea what realism is ; -)

I honestly don't understand how anything I have written warrants such a response? I'm sure the same could be said about European's opinions or assumptions of American and Americans.

[Emanuel]

Forget that... You're always so defensive thinking we aliens tend to hate Americans, oh God, I and many others, we actually love the Americans!

We just tend to see you watch Europe from your angle and there are so many differences in-between you plainly ignore, that's all : -)

[Emanuel]

15 minutes ago, mercer said:

This outlook is based on the notion that most people that get infected will need mechanical ventilation or even medical care at a facility. As of now, only a portion of the population will need those measures.

I'm sorry, I hate to sound rude (you don't even deserve it!) but you have no idea what you're talking about. There's a percentage who will need it. Stats say it. The higher amount of infected people brings all that, unfortunately. Again, Europe is not USA. We have healthcare for free, yes, but we have no those resources of your own. No fancy hospitals, no female doctors on high heels... ; )

Have you ever been in Europe, Glenn? Please answer this. Not glamour Paris, Rome or London for American tourists. Those towns are "NOT" Europe for Christ's sake!