mercer Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 51 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: Our president is an idiot. President Trump isn't an idiot, far from it, he's an egomaniac. Hopefully, this event will alter his behavior a little, and as a country, we can get away from this identity politics bullshit during his second term. Jonesy Jones and kaylee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Super8 said: And the good news is you're wrong like the last doom and gloom predictor from France. China has 1.386 billion people and they have 198,091 cases and 7,961 deaths. it took the U.S.3 months to get here. China also has 108,403 active cases and 7,020 of those cases are serious or critical. 94% of the cases are mild. Take the time to look at charts to see what numbers have increased, and what numbers from which countries have started to flatten out. China flattened out because they took extraordinary measures, and leveraged mass surveillance tools along with a swift lockdown and massive ramping up of available beds. They effectively limited their outbreak to Wuhan. It is unrealistic to expect the same results as China if we do not put as much economic and social effort into containment as China did. So my point with the numbers is that if we do nothing, a lot of people will die, roughly in an exponential pattern. Expecting a linear 15 cases per day given our current efforts is not realistic. If we do nothing, then we will certainly run out of hospital beds, which will both increase coronavirus deaths, and other deaths as @fuzzynormal pointed out due to medical resources being taken up. The 97% of victims who don't die will still lose work, some will require expensive medical care, and both of those factors will strain our economy for the next few years at least. A number of people here are losing gigs. We need to work to limit the spread in order to keep our numbers as low as you are predicting (and that we all hope for). If we manage to pull through with just a few thousand deaths, it will be because we as a society took active measures to stop the spread. It's certainly possible but it will take effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 18 minutes ago, Super8 said: you just can't stop blaming the other side. That side is the side you didn't vote for and the side you hate. Do you think I hate the "other side"? 1 minute ago, KnightsFan said: A number of people here are losing gigs. Which is how this thread started, but you know how these things go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, KnightsFan said: China flattened out because they took extraordinary measures, and leveraged mass surveillance tools along with a swift lockdown and massive ramping up of available beds. They effectively limited their outbreak to Wuhan. It is unrealistic to expect the same results as China if we do not put as much economic and social effort into containment as China did. Or they have 82,000 less mouths to feed... I'm just kidding. KnightsFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 minute ago, KnightsFan said: China flattened out because they took extraordinary measures, and leveraged mass surveillance tools along with a swift lockdown and massive ramping up of available beds. They effectively limited their outbreak to Wuhan. It is unrealistic to expect the same results as China if we do not put as much economic and social effort into containment as China did. So my point with the numbers is that if we do nothing, a lot of people will die, roughly in an exponential pattern. Expecting a linear 15 cases per day given our current efforts is not realistic. If we do nothing, then we will certainly run out of hospital beds, which will both increase coronavirus deaths, and other deaths as @fuzzynormal pointed out due to medical resources being taken up. The 97% of victims who don't die will still lose work, some will require expensive medical care, and both of those factors will strain our economy for the next few years at least. A number of people here are losing gigs. We need to work to limit the spread in order to keep our numbers as low as you are predicting (and that we all hope for). If we manage to pull through with just a few thousand deaths, it will be because we as a society took active measures to stop the spread. It's certainly possible but it will take effort. I agree with everything you side above. The U.S. is a few steps from a lock-down. Aid for lost jobs and wages are coming. What i don't like is we don't have mask and other items we need but we are about to be locked down for 2-3 weeks anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, Super8 said: I agree with everything you side above. The U.S. is a few steps from a lock-down. Aid for lost jobs and wages are coming. What i don't like is we don't have mask and other items we need but we are about to be locked down for 2-3 weeks anyway. Unfortunately, the aid for lost jobs comes from taxes, so in the end we still swallow the cost as a nation. And it seems unlikely that our megacorporations or ultra billionaires are going to pay anything close to proportional compared to their wealth--but that's another discussion My fear is that people in the US will not be as society-minded as they should. The runs on masks (preventing even medical personnel to get them!) and toilet paper show that we have a bit of an every-man-for-himself attitude, which isn't ideal and makes me worry about our ability to keep our numbers low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, mercer said: President Trump isn't an idiot, far from it, he's an egomaniac. I sometimes do wonder if the rhetorical triplicate thing he does is by canny design, or if it's just his nature. I think I get confused because it might be a savvy technique that's using a limited vocabulary. 4 minutes ago, Super8 said: Aid for lost jobs and wages are coming. Hope you're right. Believe it when you see it. There happens to be a certain history with Donald Trump and promises of getting paid. FranciscoB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 minute ago, KnightsFan said: we have a bit of an every-man-for-himself attitude It's part of the American history and culture. We'll always be a bit behind compared to other nations in that regard. It's a blessing and a curse. Emanuel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said: sometimes do wonder if the rhetorical triplicate thing he does is by canny design, or if it's just his nature. I think I get confused because it might be a savvy technique that's using a limited vocabulary. I think he's a walking contradiction. He's a bad public speaker but speaks deliberately while trying to sound folksy. You can tell a difference in his speech when he answers off the cuff questions from the WH Press Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 50 people get mowed down by guns: now is not the time to talk about politics. Global pandemic happens, made worse by an incompetent President and administration: now is not the time to talk about politics. 🤷🏻♂️ It is IMPOSSIBLE to confront and find solutions without understanding what causes the problem to begin with. Your political beliefs are your political beliefs, but they don't mean a. That you must support or defend someone because they're "on your side", and b. You don't get to pull the "let's not make this political" card when the situation is inconvenient for you. FranciscoB and Emanuel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 49 minutes ago, mercer said: President Trump isn't an idiot, far from it, he's an egomaniac. Hopefully, this event will alter his behavior a little, and as a country, we can get away from this identity politics bullshit during his second term. Nah, he's definitely an idiot. Having adept skills at some things (self promotion, being a successful confidence man / grifter) doesn't negate his refusal to acknowledge facts, accept responsibility, and problem solve/adapt to rapidly changing situations. Emanuel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: 50 people get mowed down by guns: now is not the time to talk about politics. Global pandemic happens, made worse by an incompetent President and administration: now is not the time to talk about politics. 🤷🏻♂️ It is IMPOSSIBLE to confront and find solutions without understanding what causes the problem to begin with. Your political beliefs are your political beliefs, but they don't mean a. That you must support or defend someone because they're "on your side", and b. You don't get to pull the "let's not make this political" card when the situation is inconvenient for you. How did he make it worse? What should he have done different that the CDC told him to do? The is 'the it' that he should have done and we're in "it'. Do you really think anyone should have done what CNN nut cases said to do? oh, wait they didn't have an answer all they did was say we weren't ready and he wasn't ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 12 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: 50 people get mowed down by guns: now is not the time to talk about politics. Global pandemic happens, made worse by an incompetent President and administration: now is not the time to talk about politics. 🤷🏻♂️ It is IMPOSSIBLE to confront and find solutions without understanding what causes the problem to begin with. Your political beliefs are your political beliefs, but they don't mean a. That you must support or defend someone because they're "on your side", and b. You don't get to pull the "let's not make this political" card when the situation is inconvenient for you. What citation is not convenient for me? We can talk politics all night. This citation is about helping people and doing the right thing. I know you think the right thing is telling everyone how Donald is failing but that's not the right thing to do right now. Tell us oh wise one how did we get in this citation? A) China fucked up and let this happen B) China fucked up and let this happen and lied about it C) China let infected people travel around the world knowing they shouldn't have, thus infecting the entire globe. D) Italy, the U.S and the rest of the world weren't ready because everyone has open boarders and did not see any of this coming E) A,B and C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Super8 said: How did he make it worse? What should he have done different that the CDC told him to do? The is 'the it' that he should have done and we're in "it'. Do you really think anyone should have done what CNN nut cases said to do? oh, wait they didn't have an answer all they did was say we weren't ready and he wasn't ready. Fact: They literally fired those in charge of the pandemic response team and disbanded it. Fact: Trump repeatedly downplayed the crisis as it worsened. He even used words like "hoax." Fact: Trump has repeatedly lied and spread disinformation about the disease, our testing ability, and our response efforts. Fact: the United States is lagging behind when it comes to being able to test people. Read more: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/14/21177509/coronavirus-trump-covid-19-pandemic-response https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/487873-trump-fell-asleep-at-switch-as-covid-19-spread Seriously though, this is dumb. I don't think you really care about reality, so it doesn't make sense to engage you anymore. You're not rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, Super8 said: Tell us oh wise one how did we get in this citation? A) China fucked up and let this happen I'd like to take a moment and point out the history of the Spanish Flu in order to offer a little perspective if you're gonna get nationalistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 FranciscoB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 19 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: Fact: They literally fired those in charge of the pandemic response team and disbanded it. Fact: Trump repeatedly downplayed the crisis as it worsened. He even used words like "hoax." Fact: Trump has repeatedly lied and spread disinformation about the disease, our testing ability, and our response efforts. Fact: the United States is lagging behind when it comes to being able to test people. This isn't entirely true... https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/17/instagram-posts/celebrities-are-sharing-misleading-post-about-trum/ IronFilm and newfoundmass 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 8 hours ago, John Matthews said: 1) Perspective Would be interesting to see this graphed not as a total number of deaths, but deaths as the total amount of world population at the time. As if so, then good grief, that Plague of Justinian must dominate the rest! So many deaths, for what must've been a relatively small world population back then. As what, the population was 200 ish million back around 500 AD? And they got thirty to FIFTY MILLION DEATHS??? WTF Edit: although hang on, just ran the numbers, Black Death has 200 million and be then the world population was only up to around 400 ish million? HALF DEAD? Yikes. John Matthews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Heated discussion. I think the problem of the conservative America is not to have now John McCain as President. You failed to choose your rep, definitely. Just for the record, I've always appreciated Obama but that was unfair. As second note on his course of life, the man didn't even let Trump attending his funeral ceremonies and he had already passed away... A great American hero, by the way, I really miss him < 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, mercer said: ...this event will alter his behavior a little... That's...optimistic. Emanuel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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