Help grading HLG (GH5)

[Ki Rin]

I'm having a bit of trouble color correcting HLG footage from the GH5 in Davinci Resolve. Especially getting skin tones looking natural, and matching other footage. 

I'm not sure what my project color settings should be... I've tried experimenting by changing input gamma to HLG, which does seem to provide more pleasing color results, but puts the exposure way off.  
However, changing the input color space isn't really an option for me, since I am also editing footage from the sony a7rii, which does not support HLG. 

 

Can anyone give me some advice on how I can get the HLG footage looking more neutral and match it with the sony footage? 

 

[deezid]

27 minutes ago, Ki Rin said:

I'm having a bit of trouble color correcting HLG footage from the GH5 in Davinci Resolve. Especially getting skin tones looking natural, and matching other footage. 

I'm not sure what my project color settings should be... I've tried experimenting by changing input gamma to HLG, which does seem to provide more pleasing color results, but puts the exposure way off.  
However, changing the input color space isn't really an option for me, since I am also editing footage from the sony a7rii, which does not support HLG. 

 

Can anyone give me some advice on how I can get the HLG footage looking more neutral and match it with the sony footage? 

 

Can you upload a sample?
Developed a HLG Lut for the S1, S1H and Sony A7rIV and A7III.

 

[funkyou86]

1 hour ago, Ki Rin said:

I'm having a bit of trouble color correcting HLG footage from the GH5 in Davinci Resolve. Especially getting skin tones looking natural, and matching other footage. 

I'm not sure what my project color settings should be... I've tried experimenting by changing input gamma to HLG, which does seem to provide more pleasing color results, but puts the exposure way off.  
However, changing the input color space isn't really an option for me, since I am also editing footage from the sony a7rii, which does not support HLG. 

 

Can anyone give me some advice on how I can get the HLG footage looking more neutral and match it with the sony footage? 

 

Please upload a framegrab so we try.

[PannySVHS]

I only graded HLG once on the GH5 with a rather dedicated approach. Working in ACE made a huge difference. I think I choose generic 2020 as starting profile, then of course 709 as target profile.

[UncleBobsPhotography]

1 hour ago, Ki Rin said:

Can anyone give me some advice on how I can get the HLG footage looking more neutral and match it with the sony footage? 

 

If you're editing in Rec709, I would recommend the Leeming LUT ( https://www.leeminglutpro.com )

At first I thought it was silly paying €15 for a LUT, but those €15 have saved me a lot of headaches.

[deezid]

One is Sony A73 and the other S1H, both in HLG, Lut + contrast via curve after.
 

[Mark Romero 2]

3 hours ago, Ki Rin said:

However, changing the input color space isn't really an option for me, since I am also editing footage from the sony a7rii, which does not support HLG. 

In the color page of resolve, you can apply a Color Space Transform (commonly called a CST) to a node on a clip-by-clip basis (Instead of to the entire project)

So you can apply an HLG to Rec 709 CST to all of the clips you shot on the GH5 in HLG.

You can also use an CST to transform any of your Sony clips in to Rec 709.

[Dave Del Real]

1 hour ago, deezid said:

One is Sony A73 and the other S1H, both in HLG, Lut + contrast via curve after.
 

 

 

Where can I find your A7III LUT?

[deezid]

38 minutes ago, Dave Del Real said:

Where can I find your A7III LUT?

Still In development, but results are great and match between S1/S1H HLG and V-Log

Made for HLG with Rec2020 gamut on the A73.

[Dave Del Real]

1 hour ago, deezid said:

Still In development, but results are great and match between S1/S1H HLG and V-Log

Made for HLG with Rec2020 gamut on the A73.

Nice, looking forward to the final product.

[buggz]

I am still using the following method, I think I got this information from dvxuser forum:

"You can use HLG natively with Resolve for Rec 709 delivery:
- In Project Settings, under Color Management, Change to Davinci Color Managed
- Under Color Management select:
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Input Color Space
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Timeline Color Space
-- Rec 709 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Output Color Space"

 

[Ki Rin]

7 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

In the color page of resolve, you can apply a Color Space Transform (commonly called a CST) to a node on a clip-by-clip basis (Instead of to the entire project)

So you can apply an HLG to Rec 709 CST to all of the clips you shot on the GH5 in HLG.

You can also use an CST to transform any of your Sony clips in to Rec 709.

Thank you. That sounds like what I need. I just tried it, but unsure what to choose as the input color space. For the HLG footage I'm guessing rec 2020. I tried it and it does look better for the gh5 footage. 

For the sony, no idea what I should choose as the input. I'm not shooting s-log, but rather a PP based on cine2 gamma. 

 

9 hours ago, funkyou86 said:

Please upload a framegrab so we try.

Thank you, I wll try to up one later

1 hour ago, buggz said:

I am still using the following method, I think I got this information from dvxuser forum:

"You can use HLG natively with Resolve for Rec 709 delivery:
- In Project Settings, under Color Management, Change to Davinci Color Managed
- Under Color Management select:
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Input Color Space
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Timeline Color Space
-- Rec 709 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Output Color Space"

 

Unfortunately, since I am also using a Sony camera and need to match shots, that workflow wont for me. 

[stephen]

It's a very interesting question. There are 3 methods how to approach the task and those 3 methods are actually different ways to structure your color correcting/grading workflow in Resolve. 

Color matching two different cameras has 2 steps:
    1. Correctly interpret colors in Resolve for each camera.
    2. Color match them if there are differences.

Hint. If the first step is done correctly you will have very little to no work on the second one. There are plenty of videos on youtube but all they go straight to the second one missing the crucial first step. One or more cameras most people don't know how to do correctly step one. That was my case until recently. 

Method 1: LUTs and more specifically Leeming LUTs PRO. 
If you shoot with each camera with the settings given by the author and then apply the corrective LUTs in Resolve for each camera you will get correct colors from both cameras. They should look the same. Panasonic GH5 and Sony A7 series are supported. 

Tried this on BMPCC 4K and Sony A7 III and it works reasonably well. But not always and setting the cameras each time correctly require some work and attention. 
https://www.leeminglutpro.com/ 

Few professional colorists publishing tutorials on youtube advise against LUTs for color correction. 

Method 2: ACES 

 

Used ACES method in the past to work with Sony S-Log 2 video and results were great. 

Method 3 - Color Space Transform effect in Resolve. This one was game changer for me and the method currently use as a first step for color grading/correction. Including when footage is from different cameras. My productivity in Resolve jumped at least two times and results are great. Wish I new this before ! The best video which explains the method and probably the most important part of color correction in Resolve is unfortunately in Russian. But you still will be able to pick up the principles and settings for both cameras. This guy is a ex professional colorist. Never seen anybody with tutorials on youtube explain the theory and practice so logically and simply. 

Apart of the color space transform values for input and output color space and gamma, you should also set Tone Mapping to Luminance Mapping.  That's very important. 

Once the color space transform is done on one clip do a stills grab and then apply it on all clips from the camera with few clicks. Same process for the clips of the other camera(s)

All 3 methods require to be well aware what picture profile you used during the shoot. For Sony Cameras this colorist advise to use HLG. If you don't have HLG then you should use color profiles or create your own color profiles having Color Mode setting = SGammut. Because it is not clear what color space are Sony PP with Color Mode = Cinema, Pro, Movie. 

Hope this helps. 
 

[Ki Rin]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

It's a very interesting question. There are 3 methods how to approach the task and those 3 methods are actually different ways to structure your color correcting/grading workflow in Resolve. 

Color matching two different cameras has 2 steps:
    1. Correctly interpret colors in Resolve for each camera.
    2. Color match them if there are differences.

Hint. If the first step is done correctly you will have very little to no work on the second one. There are plenty of videos on youtube but all they go straight to the second one missing the crucial first step. One or more cameras most people don't know how to do correctly step one. That was my case until recently. 

Method 1: LUTs and more specifically Leeming LUTs PRO. 
If you shoot with each camera with the settings given by the author and then apply the corrective LUTs in Resolve for each camera you will get correct colors from both cameras. They should look the same. Panasonic GH5 and Sony A7 series are supported. 

Tried this on BMPCC 4K and Sony A7 III and it works reasonably well. But not always and setting the cameras each time correctly require some work and attention. 
https://www.leeminglutpro.com/ 

Few professional colorists publishing tutorials on youtube advise against LUTs for color correction. 

Method 2: ACES 

 

Used ACES method in the past to work with Sony S-Log 2 video and results were great. 

Method 3 - Color Space Transform effect in Resolve. This one was game changer for me and the method currently use as a first step for color grading/correction. Including when footage is from different cameras. My productivity in Resolve jumped at least two times and results are great. Wish I new this before ! The best video which explains the method and probably the most important part of color correction in Resolve is unfortunately in Russian. But you still will be able to pick up the principles and settings for both cameras. This guy is a ex professional colorist. Never seen anybody with tutorials on youtube explain the theory and practice so logically and simply

Apart of the color space transform values for input and output color space and gamma, you should also set Tone Mapping to Luminance Mapping.  That's very important. 

Once the color space transform is done on one clip do a stills grab and then apply it on all clips from the camera with few clicks. Same process for the clips of the other camera(s)

All 3 methods require to be well aware what picture profile you used during the shoot. For Sony Cameras this colorist advise to use HLG. If you don't have HLG then you should use color profiles or create your own color profiles having Color Mode setting = SGammut. Because it is not clear what color space are Sony PP with Color Mode = Cinema, Pro, Movie. 

Hope this helps. 
 

Thank you! That was a very informative post! 
I wish I could watch the video, but I don't understand any russian unfortunately. 

Method 3 suits me the best, but I'm having trouble finding out what my input should be with my current PP settings on the sony. Its the a7rii so no HLG unfortunately. As you suggest, I should try with the s-gamut setting and see if that gives me a good starting point. I'll try that tomorrow and see how I go. Thanks again. 

 

[stephen]

PS. As video shows method 3 is usable only if you shoot with Log profile or RAW. Only is this case Davinci Resolve will know how to interpret correctly the colors. For Panasonic cameras those would be V-Log and HLG and for Sony S-Log2, S-Log3(to avoid) and HLG (best). If your Sony camera doesn't support HLG, then only option would be standard S-Log2/S.Gammut Picture Profile. Or some kind of hybrid profile where Color Mode is S.Gammut and gamma is Cine2 or Cine4. But you'll have to experiment. Have no idea how footage will look and in Resolve there is no value that corresponds to Cine2 or Cine4 gamma. You'll have to try several options for input Gamma. Not sure how this will work. 

For Panasonic Color Space transform for GH5 with HLG will look like these in Resolve

Input Color Space: Rec2020
Input Gamma: Rec.2100 HLG

Output Color Space: REC709
Output Gamma: REC709

Tone Mapping : Luminance Mapping

For Sony S-Log2 picture profile it would be:

Input Color Space: Sony S.Gammut
Input Gamma: Sony S-Log2

Output Color Space: REC709
Output Gamma: REC709

Tone Mapping : Luminance Mapping

Sometimes I play with output gamma. Can use Gamma 2.2 or Gamma 2.0 instead of REC709. Default for Resolve is Gamma 2.4

If you can use X-Rite Color Chart during the shoots you will be golden. Color matching footage from the 2 cameras will be really easy.

[Ki Rin]

2 hours ago, stephen said:

PS. As video shows method 3 is usable only if you shoot with Log profile or RAW. Only is this case Davinci Resolve will know how to interpret correctly the colors. For Panasonic cameras those would be V-Log and HLG and for Sony S-Log2, S-Log3(to avoid) and HLG (best). If your Sony camera doesn't support HLG, then only option would be standard S-Log2/S.Gammut Picture Profile. Or some kind of hybrid profile where Color Mode is S.Gammut and gamma is Cine2 or Cine4. But you'll have to experiment. Have no idea how footage will look and in Resolve there is no value that corresponds to Cine2 or Cine4 gamma. You'll have to try several options for input Gamma. Not sure how this will work. 

For Panasonic Color Space transform for GH5 with HLG will look like these in Resolve

Input Color Space: Rec2020
Input Gamma: Rec.2100 HLG

Output Color Space: REC709
Output Gamma: REC709

Tone Mapping : Luminance Mapping

For Sony S-Log2 picture profile it would be:

Input Color Space: Sony S.Gammut
Input Gamma: Sony S-Log2

Output Color Space: REC709
Output Gamma: REC709

Tone Mapping : Luminance Mapping

Sometimes I play with output gamma. Can use Gamma 2.2 or Gamma 2.0 instead of REC709. Default for Resolve is Gamma 2.4

If you can use X-Rite Color Chart during the shoots you will be golden. Color matching footage from the 2 cameras will be really easy.

Yes, I've been debating the color chart, but it seems very expensive for what it is. 

Anyway, I will try your suggestions first and see how it goes. 

 

[kye]

Unfortunately, HLG on GH5 doesn't align with any of the colour spaces in Resolve, regardless of the workflow.

I'd suggest trying all of the variants of rec2020 and rec2100 and see which one suits your footage best, and then adjust from there.

[Beritar]

On 3/21/2020 at 10:12 PM, deezid said:

Still In development, but results are great and match between S1/S1H HLG and V-Log

Made for HLG with Rec2020 gamut on the A73.

Can you get the same highlight compression with your HLG LUT for the A7III ?

[Jimmy G]

On 3/21/2020 at 12:39 PM, Ki Rin said:

>snip<

I'm not sure what my project color settings should be...

>snip<

 

Hi Ki Rin,

I bookmarked the following 2 links some time back when shopping the Panasonic platform as a "next choice" (after trying to work on the Sony Alpha platform and being generally disappointed with settling for 8-bit image data).

Caveat: Now, I haven't tried any of the following procedures as I've yet to dip my toes into HLG but, again, I bookmarked this information to reference to when that time comes for me.

 

First up is Jeff Worley, of CRFTSHO, generously performing a hands-on tutorial for setting up for HLG in DaVinci Resolve 12.5 (a bit dated, I know, but hopefully this translates well for the current v.16.2?) cued to the 1:46 mark...

World Exclusive - GH5 FW 2.0 HLG vs LOG - what is HLG with davinci tutorial - YouTube:

https://youtu.be/o5E1kVxRdDs?t=106

 

...and the lengthy and comprehensive MysterBox tutorial article kindly composed for the masses to which Jeff refers (but did not provide a link for in his Video's link list)...

HDR Video Part 5: Grading, Mastering, and Delivering HDR — Mystery Box:

https://www.mysterybox.us/blog/2016/10/27/hdr-video-part-5-grading-mastering-and-delivering-hdr

 

Hope that is of some use. :)

Jimmy G

[deezid]

12 hours ago, Beritar said:

Can you get the same highlight compression with your HLG LUT for the A7III ?

From my experience, yes. There's less shadow detail though.