Western governments are criminally negligent over Coronavirus

[Andrew Reid]

There is a slow burning realisation and awakening in the UK and Europe (it will come to the US soon) that we have fucked up.

Big time.

In Japan and Taiwan, simple early hygiene measures avoided a lockdown or economic crash. Thousands of jobs saved, but more importantly thousands of lives saved from the outset.

In January, the Japanese started to test in-depth for coronavirus and did case by case contact tracing and isolation. The public did their bit by wearing masks en-masse in public and using hand sanitiser. @BTM_Pix points out that most if not all shops had hand sanitiser on the entrance so people didn't unwittingly spread by handling goods.

At the same time, here in the UK our government did nothing. Business as normal.

In February our crackpot chief advisor started to float the theory of herd immunity, and amazingly the chief scientists and government itself went for this strategy straight off the bat, as the first cases reached the UK. When the scientists ran the numbers, it wasn't until over a month later... It would result in 2 million dead people, minimum.

The chief advisor Dominic Cummings is rumoured to have been advocating for the death of 2 million people as late as February 28th.

"At one private event at the end of February, Cummings outlined then government’s strategy at the time in a way that was summarised by some present as “herd immunity, protect the economy, and if that means some pensioners die, too bad.”

Meanwhile in Japan and Taiwan, the simple hygiene measures were leaving some of the most densely populated cities on Earth virtually untouched by the epidemic.

But for Italy things were rapidly going downhill. Another government who sat on their hands in January and February.

Italy's terrifying unfolding tragedy is a glimpse into the future for all of us... Just 2-4 weeks into the future.

In Italy, 20-30% of intensive care patients are aged 20-40. People with underlying health or lung problems are at great risk even if they're young.

Hospitals and health systems will collapse.

The sudden lockdowns required, will crash the economy, creating joblessness, government debt and hardship on a scale never seen before in modern times.

Meanwhile Japan remains open for business.

Sure, with some major events cancelled and the Olympics in doubt... But over in China, they are already going back to work.

Taiwan has some of the fewest cases and deaths per 100,000 people in the world, despite being on the doorstep of China.

Hong Kong too.

In the West this is the biggest government manslaughter unfolding, that has ever been seen in our lives.

Italy, Spain, Germany, UK, US, we are all going to face utter darkness. Please takes step to protect yourselves from the government's handling of this in the critical early stages. It is going to get out of control.

[fuzzynormal]

I agree to an extent. 

I sincerely doubt that the culture in the USA will awaken to facts over myth.  We have a system here built upon a foundation of nonsense, where what we want to hear is more important than reality.  Europe has felt the sting of that attitude to an extent, we have not.

This American culture has helped create a health-care system built for the affluent, not for everybody, and that's a system I fear will probably not withstand the crush of contagion.

I pray that I'm wrong about that, but there's nothing I'm hearing from the current administration that allays my concern.  The USA is going to be in the thick of COVID repercussions Mid-May and not back to anything resembling normal until mid summer.

That's a long time to reflect --and 33% unemployment (that's a "new normal" that I'm not happy to face) will shake some marbles lose, so maybe attitudes will shift somehow...but... man, I just know people here.  Many are family. I see how they think and behave.  The attitude is a blessing and a curse.  These people I live with are not outliers, they are average Americans.

[BTM_Pix]

8 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

In January the Japanese began to test in-depth and isolated cases. The public did their bit by wearing masks in public and using hand sanitiser. @BTM_Pix points out that most if not all shops had hand sanitiser on the entrance so people didn't unwittingly spread by handling goods.

Even the freeplay Streetfighter SNES station outside this second hand game shop was sorted.

[MrSMW]

I think the general public also have a part to play and the younger they are, the more they tend to believe it won't affect them. That's going to change shortly.

As a Brit, albeit one living in France, I think the UK (not going to comment on the US as that is too political!) did indeed act especially slowly as in has 'reacted' rather than 'acted' and by the time you are forced to react, you are pretty much on your back foot. Or knees. But just don't know it yet.

If I was a religious man...and I am not in any way, shape or form, I'd be praying to see a peak in the Italian death rate and then a day upon day decrease, followed by other nations.

Pretty much the only thing that gives me any kind of hope is the figures coming out of China.

At the same time, with the benefit of hindsight, there is going to be a huge amount of hand-wringing (replacing hand-washing) that not enough was done, but that is the duty of the elected governments & leaders, - you are going to be damned whichever way you did it.

[OliKMIA]

Andrew, I like your camera expertise but I don't know about your background in virology and epidemiology... Be careful with that type of statement (manslaughter, incompetence, etc.).

While I agree that the heard immunity in UK seems to be utter BS, I would be more careful with the conclusion and prospective at this point.
This is a very complex issue that no government ever faced before. It seems that Taiwan and Singapore were better prepared due to the lessons learned during the first SARS pandemic in 2003. As for Japan, this is a bit early to tell at this point, there are many factors at play such as:
- The rate of testing (can't find stuff that you are not looking for)
- Government response
- Logistic and supply chain
- Public behavior and social acceptance of the rules (very strong in Asia)
- State and quality of the health care system (USA...)
- Health of the population
- Demographic (eg. Italy and Japan are among have the oldest population in the world)

Back during the H1N1 flu outbreak in 2009, the french minister of health ordered massive amount of vaccines and masks that cost billions. Eventually, it proved useless and the government was mocked. It created a little political scandal at the time. The minister was even brought to court by some doctors who said the vaccine was dangerous.  People are going to complain no matter what...
 

[MrSMW]

The one anomaly in the World figures that stand out for me are Germany: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Third Reich 'Master Race' jokes aside, their death rate is incredibly low for some reason...and there has to be a reason.

Lower age, better health, better healthcare, different handling...?

Their number of cases is high but when you look at the mortality rate compared with say France, Spain, the UK or US, makes you want to apply for a German passport.

[BTM_Pix]

44 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

At the same time, here in the UK our government did nothing. Business as normal.

In February our crackpot chief advisor started to float the theory of herd immunity, and amazingly the chief scientists and government itself went for this strategy straight off the bat, as the first cases reached the UK. When the scientists ran the numbers, it wasn't until over a month later... It would result in 2 million dead people, minimum.

The chief advisor Dominic Cummings is rumoured to have been advocating for the death of 2 million people as late as February 28th.

"At one private event at the end of February, Cummings outlined then government’s strategy at the time in a way that was summarised by some present as “herd immunity, protect the economy, and if that means some pensioners die, too bad.”

 

To head off the bots and trolls, the source of this story is The Sunday Times and is hidden behind a paywall so you can't have a link.

You can, however, have a scan of the article here as published today in the print edition.

Not having to go pay to access the article will also spare anyone contributing to the coffers of its proprietor Rupert Murdoch.

Interesting to note how one Murdoch's organs on one side of the Atlantic is going after the government while his Fox News property is doing something entirely different on the other side of the Atlantic.

For anyone doubting the veracity of this story, Tim Shipman has proven to have had impeccable sources within the Conservative party, particularly during the Brexit period when the Government were tearing each other apart and their internal coup to oust May and install Johnson unfolded. 

It would seem doubtful that he would burn those bridges if he couldn't stand this up if required.

Such a clear attempt to, quite rightfully, throw Cummings under the bus suggests that something similar may already be under way.

Cummings role in securing the initial Leave vote and the subsequent manoeuvring to replace the entire cabinet with single issue Brexit ideologues had already weakened the UK's ability to walk and chew gum at the same time without this crisis coming along and allowing him to be anywhere near it, let alone defining the response.

 

 

 

[heart0less]

1 minute ago, MrSMW said:

The one anomaly in the World figures that stand out for me are Germany: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Third Reich 'Master Race' jokes aside, their death rate is incredibly low for some reason...and there has to be a reason.

Lower age, better health, better healthcare, different handling...?

Their number of cases is high but when you look at the mortality rate compared with say France, Spain, the UK or US, makes you want to apply for a German passport.

Exactly.

According to https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/median-age/, Germany has even higher median age than Italy, so I guess their low mortality must come from the way they handle patients.

[OliKMIA]

3 minutes ago, heart0less said:

Exactly.

According to https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/median-age/, Germany has even higher median age than Italy, so I guess their low mortality must come from the way they handle patients.

Death rate is just a ratio and it seems that Germany conducted a lot of testing early on which might explain the issue (same thing in Korea). Also, it is still very early to tell at this point.
https://www.ft.com/content/c0755b30-69bb-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3

[zerocool22]

Yeah the european goverments have failed BIG. Every normal thinking human would have closed borders, shut down flights 4 weeks ago. Goverment: "No need to panic, we are prepared" People continue to travel to skitrips in Italy by bus, car, plane. No checkups are done. Even today nobody is getting tested on their flight arrivals. This is mind boggling to me. (perhaps I am over worried because I fall into the high risk group +  pregnant wife + toddler running around and still have all my grandparents)

Only risks I am taking is getting food, water and hospital/doctor visits(which are worrisome right now). 

[sanveer]

I delete my post. 

[shooter]

56 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The one anomaly in the World figures that stand out for me are Germany: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Third Reich 'Master Race' jokes aside, their death rate is incredibly low for some reason...and there has to be a reason.

Lower age, better health, better healthcare, different handling...?

Their number of cases is high but when you look at the mortality rate compared with say France, Spain, the UK or US, makes you want to apply for a German passport.

Yup, Emanuel had posted about it before:

 

[mb6079]

Germany haven’t been testing for coronavirus postmortem, so there will be some deaths outside of hospital that are incorrectly being put down to the underlying conditions.

Also they have a lot of ICU beds.

[odie]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Even the freeplay Streetfighter SNES station outside this second hand game shop was sorted.

 

Japan is back to work. Here is an article confirming that.

 

Can anyone  comment on this article?

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-19/a-coronavirus-explosion-was-expected-in-japan-where-is-it

 

[1Ale82]

1 hour ago, heart0less said:

Exactly.

According to https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/median-age/, Germany has even higher median age than Italy, so I guess their low mortality must come from the way they handle patients.

Unless there is a common way to test for the virus, those percentages will vary from country to country depending also on how you do the test and how you collect the data. For example here in Italy we have a higher mortality rate compared to other countries, but we do the test mostly to people who come to the hospital because they feel very sick, which means this is already a filtered sample. On the other side we have quite a few vips which tested positive like soccer players or politicians and none of them is showing bad symptoms. Probably people which are positive but are not sick are way more than what presumed. After all this is a flu, on steroids, but it will work as a flu. How many are affected each year? How many require hospitalization? How many will die from it?

[Emanuel]

 

Food for thought.

: (

[mb6079]

Yeah it’s insane how predictable this virus is, yet every western country has had the attitude “it won’t be like that here”

[Video Hummus]

America and Britain did have time to prepare for this. They did have a model of how this disease spreads and reacts with the population. We had observational data from China and Japan and Italy. What seemed to work and what didn’t work and what the consequences mostly likely would be (I.E. Italy)

It is absolutely a failure of our govt’s to prepare the populace and our nations. They had two months to get into gear, to talk to the populace, to get people into the mindset. Instead we had govt’s that bumbled along badly with their heads up their asses and their hands in their pockets. Instead of informing the public, they mislead. Instead is leading they named called and played games. Speaking from people I know, friends, family, neighbors, It has done massive damage to the mindset of many of my fellow Americans.

We are still arguing wether this is a real threat! Wether it’s a hoax. Wether It is some political conspiracy. Wether it’s just the flu. We are arguing about basic reality and we will pay dearly for it. In years of economic stagnation. In humans lives. In our mental health. And maybe even our nations themselves.

Speaking of my own country. We are massively and deeply divided. I have family members that don’t talk and haven’t talked To each other since Mr. Trump was elected. Why? Because we allowed ourselves to vilify and hate. It wasn’t good enough to disagree. There are people in my family that would rather see it all burn than to work ”with the other side”. It is about taking sides. It’s all tribal and gross and disgusting now. Making it impossible to compromise or to see that we have more in common than we have differences.

Will we come out better? It’s sad, but my honest answer is: Probably not.

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

I don't know about your background in virology and epidemiology... Be careful with that type of statement (manslaughter, incompetence, etc.).

I don't need a background in epidemiology to understand what is happening.

You just need eyes and to be able to logically deduce more than 1 step ahead (which rules out at least 50% of the British public)

I'll explain why it's government manslaughter and negligence, very clearly.

Science community has been warning about the threat of a pandemic for decades. SARS hit Asia and governments there did the responsible thing to wake the fuck up...Whilst ours pondered and basically sat on their hands with other issues taking priority... like who appeals to the public the most in our daily gameshow political shitshow.

They were thinking it can't happen here... The scientific data was telling them otherwise. Bill Gates told them otherwise, very clearly.

Logic tells them otherwise. The millions of flights and international travel increase the spread of a virus so that it's a pandemic. Are you saying I need to have a background in virology to understand this? Even school kids know this.

The UK government has been proved by the events of this month to have had zero preparedness for a pandemic.

- A lack of political recognition of the seriousness of what was unfolding in January

- Insufficient testing capacity

- Insufficient protection of front-line health workers, doctors and staff

- Insufficient supplies of hand sanitiser and masks... Basic, cheap stuff.

- A lack of political urgency to put any preparedness plans into action in January (oh and they didn't have any plan anyway)

- Poor case isolation and low testing numbers especially early on at critical stage of the spread

- Underfunded health system and not supporting the staff

- Negligently informing the public

I'll give you two examples of that last point which is key. On his Japan trip, @BTM_Pix noticed the Brit tourists suddenly abandon their masks after Boris said they were ineffectual.

Nothing sums this crisis up better. People cannot take seriously what they don't understand or are poorly advised about. People don't understand the role of the masks to stop the spread of the virus. They are not there to protect you from infection. They exist to stop YOU passing the virus onto somebody else, if you cough, sneeze, it catches burst of aerosols, and it stops your hands from coming into contact with your mouth, nose or catching the cough. In the UK we catch our coughs and sneezes with our bare hands and then put our hands on shopping and goods in the supermarket. It stays there for up to 72 hours before somebody else picks up the same item and then touches their own mouths at some point, then the trouble happens especially if they are elderly or have underlying health conditions.

It is the government's responsibility to make us understand this but in actual fact their "scientific" advise is still to catch your coughs and sneezes with your bare hands. Great way to spread it onto surfaces in public, like in a packed metro carriage and spread it to a 100 others.

That's what the Japanese and Taiwanese understand in their densely populated cities.

The British don't.

We do not have a culture of understanding anything much as a collective.

We don't have a culture of wearing masks when we have a cold, let alone during a pandemic.

This has to change ASAP... Like tomorrow...

It may already be too late, and certainly for the economy and for people who have died so far it's too late.

Everyone has to wear one in public to stop the spread. It's simply no good just 20% of the public wearing them, or scarfs or buckets or whatever in a misguided belief they are a barrier to the virus entering your body.

Army should be on the streets handing them out.

Basic stuff like soap is equally important and disinfecting common public spaces. In Asia they have been disinfecting public transport on daily basis, cleaning businesses and offices like the plague. We are not doing that here. We are just not used to it. We don't have a warm climate in England with a lot of bacteria. The virus is not the same as bacteria but is removed by similar deep cleans, so why aren't we doing them?

So yes, the government had all this info, like the lay man did, like the bloke who runs EOSHD did, it's not even hard to understand...

And yes, they failed to act or be prepared which makes them criminally negligent and responsible for the manslaughter of potentially 2 million people in the UK alone.

[User]

Profiteering.

March 19, 2020 Senator Richard Burr Sold a Fortune in Stocks as G.O.P. Played Down Coronavirus Threat
North Carolina Republican warned a group that the virus could soon cause a major disruption in the United States. Three other senators also sold major holdings around the same time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/us/politics/richard-burr-stocks-sold-coronavirus.html

Whether this is entirely true or not, one would be foolish not think that there isn't a consortium of bastards plotting on how to best make a buck off this.

Who else would like to see a complete financial account of how politicians and the 1% are manoeuvring right now?