Panasonic S1H gets anamorphic RAW and 6K RAW via HDMI to Atomos Ninja V

[Andrew Reid]

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Above you can see an advert for RAW on the S1H shot in my home town of Manchester. Coincidentally these streets were where I shot with the Panasonic GH1 for the first time. I have fond memories of 10 years ago in the months leading up to EOSHD's first blog post, taking my GH1 out on the same streets as featured in the Atomos video. Always great to see how cinematic the city is.

Now at the start of yet another decade, Panasonic is upping image quality again with HDMI RAW on the S1H. What makes this implementation of RAW unique is that it has an anamorphic RAW mode. The Canon EOS R5, 1D Mk III, Sigma Fp and Nikon Z6 aren't anamorphic enabled in RAW mode.

The Panasonic RAW firmware update will be available here for the Panasonic S1H on 25th May 2020.

The Atomos Ninja V is usually $649 but B&H currently has it on sale at $499 here.

[Trankilstef]

Actually I think there are only a few shots in ProRes RAW. But you have this video that was shot entirely in ProRes RAW : 

This one too (just a trailer shot bu Sherif Mokbel) : 

 

[Cliff Totten]

But how is Canon getting around RED's internal raw recording patent? We know how BlackMagic beat RED. They took BRAW and deBayered the RGGB channels before they save it to file. Arguably, it's not true "raw" any more because it flattened. This stops RED's lawyers dead in their tracks. But Canon? Is their raw light deBayered too? Is this why they call it "Raw-Lite"?  We know that ProResRAW is true "raw" and it doesn't get significantly screwed with in the CODEC itself.

[Patrick B.]

37 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

But how is Canon getting around RED's internal raw recording patent? We know how BlackMagic beat RED. They took BRAW and deBayered the RGGB channels before they save it to file. Arguably, it's not true "raw" any more because it flattened. This stops RED's lawyers dead in their tracks. But Canon? Is their raw light deBayered too? Is this why they call it "Raw-Lite"?  We know that ProResRAW is true "raw" and it doesn't get significantly screwed with in the CODEC itself.

I’ve wondered this too.  I believe Red’s patent only covers a certain compression ratio and up according to the docs.  Like 3:1 or 5:1 and up?  So maybe Canon’s compression is fairly light.  That would explain why file sizes are so large.

Or maybe they’ve worked out a licensing agreement like Atomos and Red did?  I figure there must be some IP exchange between companies given the Komodo is the only non-Canon camera to use the new RF mount.  A lot of Z Cam customers requested an RF mount for their new flagship line, but it sounded like it was a licensing restriction or something.  Then again a 3rd party is making an E-mount for Z Cam and I always heard Sony didn’t license that either so...

[rawshooter]

43 minutes ago, Patrick B. said:

I’ve wondered this too.  I believe Red’s patent only covers a certain compression ratio and up according to the docs.  Like 3:1 or 5:1 and up?  So maybe Canon’s compression is fairly light.  That would explain why file sizes are so large.

Or maybe they’ve worked out a licensing agreement like Atomos and Red did

They did - patent exchange/cross-licensing. This is why the RED Komodo will have an RF mount and phase-detection autofocus.

[FranciscoB]

2 hours ago, Trankilstef said:

Actually I think there are only a few shots in ProRes RAW. But you have this video that was shot entirely in ProRes RAW : 

This one too (just a trailer shot bu Sherif Mokbel) : 

 

Terrible promos. Who asks for this?

[Trankilstef]

1 minute ago, FranciscoB said:

Terrible promos. Who asks for this?

I think a lot of promos are bad, I'd say 7 times out of 10. Every new camera that is released comes with a cheesy video with uninteresting story. Those two are not bad, but not awesome. i'd wait to see the full short from Sherif Mokbel though.

[Caleb Genheimer]

Bummer that there’s no full sensor height Anamorphic mode. Looks like even the “full” frame mode isn’t FULL frame.

[MeanRevert]

34 minutes ago, Trankilstef said:

I think a lot of promos are bad, I'd say 7 times out of 10. Every new camera that is released comes with a cheesy video with uninteresting story. Those two are not bad, but not awesome. i'd wait to see the full short from Sherif Mokbel though.

OTOH, really looks filmic to me.

[Trankilstef]

43 minutes ago, MeanRevert said:

OTOH, really looks filmic to me.

Definitely. Not jaw dropping though 😉

 

[RobertoSF]

2 hours ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

Bummer that there’s no full sensor height Anamorphic mode. Looks like even the “full” frame mode isn’t FULL frame.

Does anyone know the mm height of the sensor being used in S35 Anamorphic mode?
If it's 18mm with the firmware update I'd be happy.

[androidlad]

2 hours ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

Bummer that there’s no full sensor height Anamorphic mode. Looks like even the “full” frame mode isn’t FULL frame.

 

Would be nice to have full sensor height anamorphic mode, but the vast majority of anamorphic lenses are designed for S35 coverage.

7 minutes ago, RobertoSF said:

Does anyone know the mm height of the sensor being used in S35 Anamorphic mode?
If it's 18mm with the firmware update I'd be happy.

15.7mm

[RobertoSF]

20 minutes ago, androidlad said:

Would be nice to have full sensor height anamorphic mode, but the vast majority of anamorphic lenses are designed for S35 coverage.

15.7mm

Well, that would be a little disappointing, and not what seems to be true S35 coverage in Anamorphic mode.

[ntblowz]

4 hours ago, rawshooter said:

They did - patent exchange/cross-licensing. This is why the RED Komodo will have an RF mount and phase-detection autofocus.

Which means only Canon camera can have internal compressed RAW, all other will have to go external to bypass RED patent.  Even Blackmagic have to remove cdng format due to this.

 

So yeah this is what a bogus patent do to the whole industry.

[arson519]

Sweet thanks for the heads up ninja v on sale been waiting to buy one hard to pass up on that price.

[rawshooter]

41 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Which means only Canon camera can have internal compressed RAW, all other will have to go external to bypass RED patent. 

It's even more than that - RED's patents cover any form of compressed RAW video, including externally recorded RAW. Atomos pays major $$ to RED for being able to put (compressed) ProRes RAW into its recorders:

https://www.atomos.com/press-releases/atomos-and-red-are-pleased-to-announce-a-royalty-based-licence-agreement

[Yannick Willox]

why not braw on a Panasonic then ?

[FranciscoB]

Prores raw seems like a lost cause without DaVinci resolve. It's been 2 years and no major brands use it or support it. Looks more like a marketing strategy for atomos than anything else. 

[Per Frits]

I dont care about the ProRes RAW since I use Davinci Resolve. But I'm looking forward to finally being able to use the monitor when recording 6K :-) 

[Patrick B.]

1 hour ago, Yannick Willox said:

why not braw on a Panasonic then ?

I think this might come.  Yesterday on a Lumix live stream they seemed to make it a point to say that Panasonic had enabled raw output over HDMI, but that it didn’t necessarily have to be ProRes RAW.  So if we look at the EVA-1 getting BRAW recently then it stands to reason this could come next.  Just a guess.

18 minutes ago, FranciscoB said:

Prores raw seems like a lost cause without DaVinci resolve. It's been 2 years and no major brands use it or support it. Looks more like a marketing strategy for atomos than anything else. 

I believe it’s supported in the current beta version of Premeire (at least for Windows).  And I think Avid had announced support.  So really that only leaves Vegas and Davinci which I imagine will be the very last to get it.  I feel like eventually they might have to give in and support it if enough cameras are using it.