What REALLY prompted Canon suddenly to get their act together with video?

[Super8]

  On 5/2/2020 at 8:16 PM, thebrothersthre3 said:

@Django

Check out this list 
https://pdnonline.com/gear/cameras/the-best-cameras-for-color-reproduction-ranked/

TBH I am really confused as the Fuji's are up at the top directly followed by Sony. How can they both be super color accurate while both being very different?

Expand  

Because that test is b.s if that's all you need to go by to decide which camera produced the best color.

 

[Super8]

  On 5/2/2020 at 8:12 PM, Rinad Amir said:

We are here to share and learn...But lately i see just complete bullshit from fake users that claim their pro colorist with their science 

Post your work and talk.

Expand  

So the guy that ask people to look and comment at video comparison and still image captures for the sake of sharing and learning is being called bullshit and fake user?

Everyone that's said for me to post my work has made zero comments on the video links or screen captures. 

[Django]

  On 5/2/2020 at 8:16 PM, thebrothersthre3 said:

@Django

Check out this list 
https://pdnonline.com/gear/cameras/the-best-cameras-for-color-reproduction-ranked/

TBH I am really confused as the Fuji's are up at the top directly followed by Sony. How can they both be super color accurate while both being very different?

Expand  

well they use the same sensors to begin with... other than that I'm not really a fan of such tests it's like pixel peeping for color.

thankfully there is no color accuracy category at film award shows  

[thebrothersthre3]

  On 5/2/2020 at 8:41 PM, Django said:

well they use the same sensors to begin with... other than that I'm not really a fan of such tests it's like pixel peeping for color.

thankfully there is no color accuracy category at film award shows  

Expand  

when you referred to Sony being the most accurate is that just from personal experience? 

[Rinad Amir]

  On 5/2/2020 at 8:34 PM, Super8 said:

So the guy that ask people to look and comment at video comparison and still image captures for the sake of sharing and learning is being called bullshit and fake user?

Everyone that's said for me to post my work has made zero comments on the video links or screen captures. 

Expand  

Stop changing words and post your work like everyone requested here.

[Django]

  On 5/2/2020 at 9:15 PM, thebrothersthre3 said:

when you referred to Sony being the most accurate is that just from personal experience? 

Expand  

Mostly websites, forums.. my personal experience is pretty poor with Sony but it’s mainly because of WB issues.
 

A7S had a massive green cast, A7S2 gave bart simpson  skin tones. On FS7 i shoot in Cine EI mode so WB becomes irrelevant but you still gotta work on it in post.

Fuji I found had one of the best WB and a nice roll-off. Film simulations are fun too.

 

[rawshooter]

  On 4/30/2020 at 8:37 PM, Super8 said:

Yes I do.

I sure do.

 

Expand  

...and posting no links to work or a reel. Does your first name happen to be Ebrahim?

[Vision]

  On 5/2/2020 at 9:47 PM, rawshooter said:

...and posting no links to work or a reel. Does your first name happen to be Ebrahim?

Expand  

I was actually thinking the same! this fella sounds dodgy claiming hes pro colourist etc knows his stuff but yet hasn't got a thing to present 

keep avoiding members questions by interpolating them. 

[Super8]

  On 5/2/2020 at 9:47 PM, rawshooter said:

...and posting no links to work or a reel. Does your first name happen to be Ebrahim?

Expand  

The majority of users don't post links do they?

Why does it matter if i post my work or not?  What did I claim that was dependent on showing my work?  Showing my work doesn't make Canon's color science any different or BMP6k issue any better.

  On 5/2/2020 at 10:32 PM, Vision said:

I was actually thinking the same! this fella sounds dodgy claiming hes pro colourist etc knows his stuff but yet hasn't got a thing to present 

keep avoiding members questions by interpolating them. 

Expand  

I never asked what you do and I don't care.  I'm not avoiding anyone.  The attitudes of the ones asking for links to my work is a turn off.

[Mokara]

  On 5/2/2020 at 8:41 PM, Django said:

well they use the same sensors to begin with... other than that I'm not really a fan of such tests it's like pixel peeping for color.

thankfully there is no color accuracy category at film award shows  

Expand  

They convert it to teal and orange anyway, so it doesn't matter how accurate the color is in the first place

[IronFilm]

https://pdnonline.com/gear/cameras/the-best-cameras-for-color-reproduction-ranked/

  On 5/2/2020 at 8:31 PM, Super8 said:

Because that test is b.s if that's all you need to go by to decide which camera produced the best color.

Expand  

Please please do tell us what is "bull sh*t" with the testing by Image Engineering for color accuracy? Explain with specifics and details, I'm all ears to listen and learn. 

Have a read of this first:
https://www.tipa.com/_assets/pdf/TIPA_Camera_Test_Image_Engineering.pdf

Have you done better scientific tests of cameras' colors than this yourself?

 

[zerocool22]

  On 5/2/2020 at 11:19 PM, Super8 said:

 

Why does it matter if i post my work or not?

 

Expand  

Well color can be a subjective matter, if you post your work, people will be able to tell your skill level, if your work is out of this world then people will respect your opinion more, and if they find your work bad then they will render your opinion meaningless. So def matters a lot. 

[Super8]

  On 5/3/2020 at 6:00 AM, IronFilm said:

https://pdnonline.com/gear/cameras/the-best-cameras-for-color-reproduction-ranked/

Please please do tell us what is "bull sh*t" with the testing by Image Engineering for color accuracy? Explain with specifics and details, I'm all ears to listen and learn. 

Have a read of this first:
https://www.tipa.com/_assets/pdf/TIPA_Camera_Test_Image_Engineering.pdf

Have you done better scientific tests of cameras' colors than this yourself?

 

Expand  

That test uses standard color profiles.  Change your profile and those results are different. 

That test is for stills images and not video color reproduction.  Is photography a thing on the EOS?

That test is not a industry standard test.  The rankings speaks volumes vs real world results.

You're an audio guy, is that why you haven't replied to my request for comments on the camera text videos?

[Super8]

  On 5/3/2020 at 6:24 AM, zerocool22 said:

Well color can be a subjective matter, if you post your work, people will be able to tell your skill level, if your work is out of this world then people will respect your opinion more, and if they find your work bad then they will render your opinion meaningless. So def matters a lot. 

Expand  

I am curious though.  I posted videos showing Canon color vs BMP6K color that almost no one responded to except to say the C500 was a much higher priced camera so the color science would be better than the P6K.  Why is that that no one took the time to have an opinion about a side by side color test between two cine cameras but a hand full of people have asked to see links to my work?  Why is that? Is it off limits to talk about color based on video samples? 

We do see color with our eyes right?  You can't really see color just by reading the words that someone types can you?

[rawshooter]

  On 5/3/2020 at 7:26 AM, Super8 said:

I am curious though.  I posted videos showing Canon color vs BMP6K color that almost no one responded to except to say the C500 was a much higher priced camera so the color science would be better than the P6K.  Why is that that no one took the time to have an opinion about a side by side color test between two cine cameras but a hand full of people have asked to see links to my work?  Why is that? Is it off limits to talk about color based on video samples? 

We do see color with our eyes right?  You can't really see color just by reading the words that someone types can you?

Expand  

I call you out as a fake and liar.

If you were a professional colorist, then you would know that in the age of RAW cameras, colors are what a colorist makes of them. A camera's out-of-the-box "color science" hardly matters to colorists if you work from 10bit/12bit Log or RAW; it only matters to quick turnaround-documentary and ENG video makers who rely on the camera's factory color profiles and do not have post-production colorists. 

Judging colors by YouTube videos, in highly compressed 8bit 4:2:0 Rec709, is ludicrous anyway. Any RAW cine camera today - even Blackmagic's $1200 Pocket 4K - covers more than the Rec709/sRGB color space. Difference in color gamut will only become visible in greater bit depths than 8bit, with better color subsampling than 4:2:0 and wider color spaces such as Aces, P3 and Rec2020.

[SteveV4D]

  On 5/3/2020 at 7:16 AM, Super8 said:

 Is photography a thing on the EOS?

Expand  

It would seem so... see link 

https://www.eoshd.com/photo/shooting-with-the-canon-dream-lens-50mm-f0-95-on-my-sigma-fp/

  On 5/3/2020 at 7:16 AM, Super8 said:

That test is for stills images and not video color reproduction.  

Expand  

I never knew Canon used a different colour science for Photography instead of the one they use for video.  Wow... you really know things other people don't.  😂

  On 5/3/2020 at 7:26 AM, Super8 said:

Why is that that no one took the time to have an opinion about a side by side color test between two cine cameras.

Expand  

I do have an opinion on it, but I feel you're not in the right frame of mind to receive it.  

  On 5/3/2020 at 7:16 AM, Super8 said:

That test uses standard color profiles.  Change your profile and those results are different. 

Expand  

So which Canon colour profile is the most accurate for colour? Do you know? I feel you're making things up about colour science as you go along.

[Django]

  On 5/3/2020 at 8:28 AM, SteveV4D said:

I never knew Canon used a different colour science for Photography instead of the one they use for video.  Wow... you really know things other people don't.  😂

 

Expand  

Actually, while picture profiles are the same in both modes, in video mode on EOS R / 1DX3 in the Log settings you have two color options: Neutral matrix & Original EOS Cinema.

One could argue that for a video centric color accuracy test, cameras should be tested in their various log modes and have a standard Rec709 LUT applied and then compare results. I have a feeling that Canon in the Neutral matrix setting might be more accurate.

[SteveV4D]

  On 5/3/2020 at 10:22 AM, Django said:

Actually, while picture profiles are the same in both modes, in video mode on EOS R / 1DX3 in the Log settings you have two color options: Neutral matrix & Original EOS Cinema.

One could argue that for a video centric color accuracy test, cameras should be tested in their various log modes and have a standard Rec709 LUT applied and then compare results. I have a feeling that Canon in the Neutral matrix setting might be more accurate.

Expand  

Fair point; I wasn't aware of this, not owning the cameras.  Still I'm not sure this detail can be used to dismiss the entire test, or its relevance to video.

My personal take is that such colour tests are like comparison videos on YouTube.  They only tell half the story.  However to dismiss one so easily whilst advocating the other in order to support your own opinion, is one area where I have an issue with Super8's responses.  

[BTM_Pix]

Just popping in to say that I quite like Deep Impact.

Coincidentally, this thread couldn't have been more destroyed if it had been hit by a giant comet either.

[SteveV4D]

  On 5/3/2020 at 10:42 AM, BTM_Pix said:

Just popping in to say that I quite like Deep Impact.

Coincidentally, this thread couldn't have been more destroyed if it had been hit by a giant comet either.

Expand  

I like Deep Impact too.  Though most prefer the other asteroid movie from that year.  Maybe we should switch discussions to an Armageddon vs Deep Impact debate.  Would be more fun.  😂😂