What REALLY prompted Canon suddenly to get their act together with video?

[thebrothersthre3]

Yeah soft focus can definitely be a problem on smaller shoots. IBIS is also hugely helpful to replace a tripod or for slider imitation shots(if short and slowed down from 60/48fps). 
 

Simple things like proper inputs/outputs make the Pocket6k a unique camera in its own right though. Along with things like having the only compressed RAW in the game that can really compete with RED. All for $2000 or $1000 if you get the 4k. 

It will be very interesting to see what Canon comes up with on the R5 tho. Just simple things like the flip screen and a decent battery life will make it very appealing to me. If it does full frame 2k RAW I'd love that too. I wish the Pocket 6k could do 2k or HD RAW at s35.

[Super8]

32 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah soft focus can definitely be a problem on smaller shoots. IBIS is also hugely helpful to replace a tripod or for slider imitation shots(if short and slowed down from 60/48fps). 
 

Simple things like proper inputs/outputs make the Pocket6k a unique camera in its own right though. Along with things like having the only compressed RAW in the game that can really compete with RED. All for $2000 or $1000 if you get the 4k. 

It will be very interesting to see what Canon comes up with on the R5 tho. Just simple things like the flip screen and a decent battery life will make it very appealing to me. If it does full frame 2k RAW I'd love that too. I wish the Pocket 6k could do 2k or HD RAW at s35.

I'm not ready to invest in a bulky cine camera right now.  I can rent what I need but that becomes an issue because it makes more sense to invest back into the company. 

If not Canon then what company is the best investment in 2020?  I like the S1H and what Panasonic has done. I have doubts about the AF tracking. I do believe  it's better and more relible than the reputation it has.

 

 

[SteveV4D]

5 hours ago, Super8 said:

 

The R5 will be able to shoot RAW and have IBIS and Canon color with AF.  This will destroy the P6k on set and what you can pull off in a days shoot. 

Destroy...  destroy... destroy!!!! 😂😂😂

What you mean is that the R5 may well be a better camera for the work you're doing than the P6K...  that's all.  

It's not what you're saying, it's how you say it that promotes these reactions from others.  You sound like a hobbyist using cameras when you go off on one about one camera destroying another.  What, will the R5 be attacking your P6K with a baseball bat?  Destroy indeed.  😂😂😂

[SteveV4D]

2 hours ago, Super8 said:

I've been on real shoots with real clients using the P6K and a smaller AF, IBIS, RAW capable full frame mirror-less camera and the full frame mirror-less camera out performed the P6K every-time.  

Real shoots with real clients.... wow that's amazing... as opposed to the rest of us who go on unreal shoots with unreal clients...  you're are so in a league above everyone else on this forum... 😂😂

Tell me then, why are you using P4K and P6K.  You don't need RAW as apparently the finished files end up in ProRes.  The S1H sounds a better fit for your needs. Sure AF is poor, but a lot better than the Pockets.  It has IBIS, its fullframe, full VLOG, timecode (useful on Professional shoots), and is Netflix approved when set to it's best codec.  Why suffer a camera that is reducing your workflow by 40%, when there are already cameras out there that would better serve your needs.  

P4K and P6K are for people like me, on a low budget and can't afford the more expensive cameras. 😉 

Though my clients are real too.  I know, I've met them and they weren't imaginary.  Does that mean my working for them counts as a real shoot too...  ??? 🤔🤔

[Super8]

4 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

 Why suffer a camera that is reducing your workflow by 40%, when there are already cameras out there that would better save your needs.  

 

I never said my workflow was reduced by 40%

Can you reply to what I actually said?

[thebrothersthre3]

@SteveV4D

I think the production company @Super8 contracted had purchased the Pocket 6k's not him. 

[Super8]

6 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Tell me then, why are you using P4K and P6K. 

A.) We needed higher frame rates for some shots

B.) Like I said before I always ask the DP what he prefers to shoot with

C.) We had 2x P6K's with prime glass and steadicams.

D.) I had used the same 2x P6k's and full-frame mirror-less before.

[SteveV4D]

3 hours ago, Super8 said:

  It's not a knock on the P6K but it is against manual cine cameras. They slow the process down by 40%.

 

So why wouldn't the S1H be a better fit for you than the P6K.  Surely they wouldn't reduce the process by 40% with IBIS, fullframe and a timecode too.  

[SteveV4D]

4 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

@SteveV4D

I think the production company @Super8 contracted had purchased the Pocket 6k's not him. 

No I think he owns them.. it's hard to figure out I know.  

4 minutes ago, Super8 said:

 

C.) We had 2x P6K's with prime glass and steadicams.

D.) I had used the same 2x P6k's and full-frame mirror-less before.

Presumably one of those has the bad IR pollution. Or am I mistaken in this.  

Blackmagics quality control is poor.  Hit and miss whether your camera has issues.  I had to return my first P4K for a replacement.

[Super8]

11 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

You don't need RAW as apparently the finished files end up in ProRes. 

P4K and P6K are for people like me, on a low budget and can't afford the more expensive cameras. 😉

I do need and prefer RAW. 

I had used ProRes HQ 10bit and had enough latitude to work with.  My budgets aren't super high.  I try and make the best decisions possible. 

It's either rent cine gear or buy a P6K and rig it up.  

 

[Super8]

5 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

So why wouldn't the S1H be a better fit for you than the P6K.  Surely they wouldn't reduce the process by 40% with IBIS, fullframe and a timecode too.  

I don't know if the S1H would be better or not.  With the next shoot I need to decide which gear to go with.  If the budget is healthy enough and I need to focus on directing then I'll hire a DP.

 

 

[Super8]

16 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

No I think he owns them.. it's hard to figure out I know.  

Presumably one of those has the bad IR pollution. Or am I mistaken in this.  

Blackmagics quality control is poor.  Hit and miss whether your camera has issues.  I had to return my first P4K for a replacement.

I hired out a production team for the two cameras (P6k's)

IR pollution was on every single shot from both cameras that had ND's.  So all shots except for 3.

[SteveV4D]

30 minutes ago, Super8 said:

I hired out a production team for the two cameras (P6k's)

IR pollution was on every single shot from both cameras that had ND's.  So all shots except for 3.

Earlier you said one camera was worse than the other. 

 

48 minutes ago, Super8 said:

I do need and prefer RAW. 

 

 

And yet by the time it gets to you as a colourist, it's not RAW.  There was a long discussion on that.  

Example #1 (already mentioned)

We crew I hired shoot with 2 BMP6K's and the footage was delivered in ProRes not RAW, the footage had massive IR pollution. I shot with a third camera that was not the P6K.  This was one example I gave.

 

Why didn't you tell them to shoot RAW.  You hired them.  

[Super8]

1 minute ago, SteveV4D said:

Earlier you said one camera was worse than the other. 

 

And yet by the time it gets to you as a colourist, it's not RAW.  There was a long discussion on that.  

Example #1 (already mentioned)

We crew I hired shoot with 2 BMP6K's and the footage was delivered in ProRes not RAW, the footage had massive IR pollution. I shot with a third camera that was not the P6K.  This was one example I gave.

 

Why didn't you tell them to shoot RAW.  You hired them.  

We discussed RAW or QT and it was a file size choice since we were shooting multiple days.  I won't do that again with P6K.

It seemed like one was worse on one but IR pollution depends on how many stops and other shooting conditions. 

[SteveV4D]

Moving back to the R5, everyone is going on about 8K RAW, but file sizes will be massive I imagine.  BRAW is very good at getting file sizes down, but I'm not sure Canons implementation of RAW is as compressed.  

But what of 4K RAW in the R5?  Is it included?  The P6K doesn't offer 4K RAW, only ProRes.  Theres some argument that the camera has to shoot at maximum resolution for RAW.  Whether true or not.  So is RAW in the R5 reserved only for 8K; in which case how useful will it be for the majority of users.  How many of you planning to buy the R5 will be shooting 8K RAW?  Especially if there is a time limit. 

At a time where I'm struggling to get my clients to receive and value 4K over HD, where does 8K actually fit into peoples workflow?  Apart from vanity projects, 'hey I'm shooting in 8K' videos, to be buried on YouTube, along with all the 6K videos out there.  

[Silenkiller]

P4K user here. Looking to make the jump to canon because 1: i'm always basically grading to get the canon look 2: i love the subtle bokeh differences of full frame 3: ibis is a nice icing on the cake 4: as good as I am at manual focusing on the run, there are still times when GOOD auto focus will come in handy. 5: going back to a compact camera body.. p4k's kitted out are pretty bulking for run and gun event shooting, it will be nice not to worry about wires and attachments again. 

things i'll miss? 

1. cheap storage in the form of external SSD's via usb 3.0

2. amazing BRAW filesize/capabilities

3. incredible touch screen interface of the p4k

[ade towell]

What about price?

It's interesting the P4k seems to be the camera mentioned a few times here being replaced by the R5 - depending on the price you can get 3 maybe 4 of the P4k to one R5. They're not in the same price bracket not even close. Same with P6K. 

I'm not sure when R5 Is due out but I'd imagine it's going to be a long time before film and video production gets back to any kind of normal. Are people really going to be in a position to invest in a camera so much more expensive than what they're currently using? Or is it going to be a time for consolidation and just trying to get by on what you have?  

[rawshooter]

9 hours ago, Super8 said:

I've hired DP's that have worked on Netflix shows and Disney mega blockbusters.  On my crew they were DP's and on the Netflix and Disney shows they were not. But they sill worked on my crew and I still directed them and hired them. 

Yes, in Egypt, right?

[SteveV4D]

19 minutes ago, ade towell said:

What about price?

It's interesting the P4k seems to be the camera mentioned a few times here being replaced by the R5 - depending on the price you can get 3 maybe 4 of the P4k to one R5. They're not in the same price bracket not even close. Same with P6K. 

I'm not sure when R5 Is due out but I'd imagine it's going to be a long time before film and video production gets back to any kind of normal. Are people really going to be in a position to invest in a camera so much more expensive than what they're currently using? Or is it going to be a time for consolidation and just trying to get by on what you have?  

I'm holding off new purchases till this crisis is over and my workload is back up and running.  This will be Autumn at the earliest, next year if not.   The price reduction for the P6K is tempting and no doubt done to encourage sales in lean times, but without work, it's a stupid investment, when I have bills to pay and minimum income. 

When will the R5 be released?  Maybe Autumn for the same reasons. 

 

[leslie]

9 hours ago, Super8 said:

You bring up valid points. IR pollution is an issue with Black Magic cameras.

I've hired DP's that have worked on Netflix shows and Disney mega blockbusters.  On my crew they were DP's and on the Netflix and Disney shows they were not. But they sill worked on my crew and I still directed them and hired them. 

@HockeyFan12 when he said you get a camera and play to it's strengths. Every-time I hire a DP I ask them what camera they prefer to work with.  We work together based on the budget and we get the job done.  Now, budget is key and what guys are used to working with on big budgets can't always happen on my sets.  But the key is creating the best deliverable that we can.

Old school DP's are having to learn new cameras or get left behind. The FS7 is not always practical and doesn't give the best image based on cost. I don't have an issue working with the P6K again but I'm going to have to do test. 

The R5 will be able to shoot RAW and have IBIS and Canon color with AF.  This will destroy the P6k on set and what you can pull off in a days shoot. 

Whats with all the destroying ?  are you part dalek ?

do you really think that a r5 is going to be so revolutionary that is going to add a tremendous amount of shoots a day to your schedule ? because if you do i want some of whatever it is your smoking...