What REALLY prompted Canon suddenly to get their act together with video?

[Simon Young]

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

Sure. Canon color, better motion cadence, better IBIS, better placed dynamic range and better lens selection gives you a better image. Who do you trust to give you a better image? Canon or Panasonic.  Oh, and I forgot to mention the Canon 4K will be in focus. LOL

You can’t be taken serious. I owned the S1 for a stint and was amazed at how good the IBIS was, and of all the MILCs I’ve had my hands on the build quality of that camera is a thing of beauty. With the full V-LOG the color science is amazing, I much prefer it to both the Fuji and the Canon

Really hope Canon does well with the IBIS, but seeing how this is their first attempt I’m not holding my breath. Just look at how Fuji cocked up the XT4, which has a smaller sensor.  And motion cadence, LOL
 

 

[SteveV4D]

3 hours ago, Super8 said:

Why would the R6 interest you?

Not sure why people are making such negative smarty comments about Canon?  I had some major issues with BMP6K and ND filter IR pollution.  BM color is atrocious when it misses the mark and not dialed in properly. Don't expose 2 stop over and IR pollution is a big issue.  I honestly think BMP6K is moving into Sony color land when not shot properly or with ND filter.  

Canon have the magic sauce with color science. If you've spent time color correcting various footage from RED, Arri, BM, Canon, etc then you know where cameras fall in regards to color and how they treat color. Right now BMP6K can't be trusted and Canon can.

Have you looked at BlackMagic's product page full of specs?

 

 

 

Why consider the R6, why not? I do take photos, and their AF is hard to beat, match with good colour science.  The only brand I won't do is Sony.  I own Panasonic and Blackmagic, but would happily get Fuji and Canon with the right camera.

That said, I love Blackmagic Colour Science.  Can't agree with your scathing cristisms at all.  I prefer it to Canon, in many cases. Comparing BM Colour to Sony is 😄 Its so forced an argument, it really undervalues it.

Oh and I've seen Blackmagics Specs..  there are crucial things missing from their Pocket in terms of features, I won't deny it; but then Canon have been guilty of that in the past.  They still have their supporters.

 

[Rinad Amir]

3 hours ago, ade towell said:

Colour is subjective (I actually prefer Panasonic colour science since EVA, S1 etc), the rest of these you're just guessing, IBIS and DR of the S1, SH1 are going to be hard to beat.

Hope you're right as progress benefits all of us but your Canon love in and trashing of the BM Pocket is a little OTT

Totaly agree S1H Dr crushes even 1dx miii and for some reasons i prefear colours of S1H .

[Super8]

24 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Why consider the R6, why not? I do take photos, and their AF is hard to beat, match with good colour science.  The only brand I won't do is Sony.  I own Panasonic and Blackmagic, but would happily get Fuji and Canon with the right camera.

That said, I love Blackmagic Colour Science.  Can't agree with your scathing cristisms at all.  I prefer it to Canon, in many cases. Comparing BM Colour to Sony is 😄 Its so forced an argument, it really undervalues it.

Oh and I've seen Blackmagics Specs..  there are crucial things missing from their Pocket in terms of features, I won't deny it; but then Canon have been guilty of that in the past.  They still have their supporters.

 

Doesn't it make you wonder why BM footage always has a vintage look?

[Super8]

2 hours ago, Simon Young said:

You can’t be taken serious. I owned the S1 for a stint and was amazed at how good the IBIS was, and of all the MILCs I’ve had my hands on the build quality of that camera is a thing of beauty. With the full V-LOG the color science is amazing, I much prefer it to both the Fuji and the Canon

Really hope Canon does well with the IBIS, but seeing how this is their first attempt I’m not holding my breath. Just look at how Fuji cocked up the XT4, which has a smaller sensor.  And motion cadence, LOL
 

 

You took my S1H comments the wrong way.  IBIS is great on the S1H but I would argue that the S1H IBIS looks great (stable), you get a unnatural treatment of 3D space with parallax issues.

S1H build quality is great, I never said Canon build quality would be better.   I'm not sold on Panasonic color.  Users are also having issues shooting with Netflix specs.  I also don't think the S1H is flying off the shelf either.

[Super8]

3 hours ago, ade towell said:

Colour is subjective (I actually prefer Panasonic colour science since EVA, S1 etc), the rest of these you're just guessing, IBIS and DR of the S1, SH1 are going to be hard to beat.

Hope you're right as progress benefits all of us but your Canon love in and trashing of the BM Pocket is a little OTT

Color is not subjective if you color grade for a living.  All color is connected and Canon and Panasonic are not the same.  If you had to pick Canon or Panasonic based on color you would pick Canon all day long.  This can be proven as a fact.

Yes color is objective if we're debating a final color grade on the latest Top Gun film. 

22 minutes ago, Rinad Amir said:

Totaly agree S1H Dr crushes even 1dx miii and for some reasons i prefear colours of S1H .

Have you worked with both cameras?

[Michael Steiner]

3 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I have no clue. Some say it has to do with rolling shutter but I've heard some say a camera with much higher RS than another has better motion cadence. I've also heard people say a camera has great motion while another person says it looks bad. So who the hell knows imo

Yep, smells like esoterics...

[SteveV4D]

33 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Doesn't it make you wonder why BM footage always has a vintage look?

Such questions are for people who want to prove their own point of view.

[Super8]

5 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Such questions are for people who want to prove their own point of view.

I asked that question because I noticed it when grading BM footage, using BMP6K (x4) on two different shoots.  If you look all over the web you'll see the same-thing.

You have a BMP4. What's your take on this? 

For the record I love the BMP6K. But you have to dial it to get it to look good.  If you start going over or under it loses control and can look horrible. This means you have very little forgiveness with how they've pushed that sensor. The S1H has much better color latitude and color science compared to the BMP6K.

[Rinad Amir]

50 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Color is not subjective if you color grade for a living.  All color is connected and Canon and Panasonic are not the same.  If you had to pick Canon or Panasonic based on color you would pick Canon all day long.  This can be proven as a fact.

Yes color is objective if we're debating a final color grade on the latest Top Gun film. 

Have you worked with both cameras?

Yes i had S1h for about 6months before i sold it for 1dxmiii.

S1h with ninja v 

[Super8]

Nice!

[SteveV4D]

20 minutes ago, Super8 said:

 

You have a BMP4. What's your take on this? 

My take on it is that I prefer Blackmagic colour science over other manufacturers.  Always have done, even before I owned a Blackmagic camera.  I do like the colour I've seen in Canon footage I have worked with, and I've seen good colour in Fuji and a few Panasonic cameras. 

Does Blackmagic have a certain look to it. Yes it does, but then so does Canon.  In fact I find sometimes the Canon colours can be too orange for my taste. Why is that?  

But my take is my own, and one I am sure not shared by you.  I think you feel your view of the matter of camera colour is an absolute.  A logical conclusion based on experience.  My take is, it's just your point of view of your own personal taste, and others such as myself have a different one.

[Super8]

2 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

My take on it is that I prefer Blackmagic colour science over other manufacturers.  Always have done, even before I owned a Blackmagic camera.  I do like the colour I've seen in Canon footage I have worked with, and I've seen good colour in Fuji and a few Panasonic cameras. 

Does Blackmagic have a certain look to it. Yes it does, but then so does Canon.  In fact I find sometimes the Canon colours can be too orange for my taste. Why is that?  

But my take is my own, and one I am sure not shared by you.  I think you feel your view of the matter of camera colour is an absolute.  A logical conclusion based on experience.  My take is, it's just your point of view of your own personal taste, and others such as myself have a different one.

Of course people have different preference in color choice. That's not my point. Like what you like. 

If you keep it simple you could say Arri is top in the field in color reproduction.  That's fine and I agree with that.  When you professional color grade you can do a lot with most footage.

What not up for debate are what camera footage is easier to grade and what camera color science lines up with the most accurate pleasing color that mixes perfectly with what we see with our own eyes.

Arri does this and Canon does this the best.

 

 

[Rinad Amir]

Am just hoping that the rumours are true and Panasonic is on making S1V id gladly sell the 1dx miii as it doesnt suit me at all no offence to Canon users .But i miss colour ergo of Pana.

And the small stuff like waveform uncoformed 120p with audio 10bit 14stops Dr that i will never get in 1dxmiii silent autofocus(that beirly useable 😄 zebra Hlg shutter angle 180 unlimited rec etc

Now as for Canon 1dxmiii i cannot film in daylight with tiny screen due to sun reflection (Just use the dam Ninja v !!!) But it doesnt recieve raw data signal so exposure isnt accurete and that 100euro atomos cable doesnt work in 4k60p😪 autofocus is loud from canon BUT accurate .H265 is nighmare on my rig so i have to transcode it etc ,this thing piss me off after shelling twice more for 1dxmiii ! 

But hey if you like 1Dxmiii am happy for you

Here is mine .

 

[thebrothersthre3]

49 minutes ago, Super8 said:

I asked that question because I noticed it when grading BM footage, using BMP6K (x4) on two different shoots.  If you look all over the web you'll see the same-thing.

You have a BMP4. What's your take on this? 

For the record I love the BMP6K. But you have to dial it to get it to look good.  If you start going over or under it loses control and can look horrible. This means you have very little forgiveness with how they've pushed that sensor. The S1H has much better color latitude and color science compared to the BMP6K.

Interesting, I wouldn't think the S1H has more latitude than a Pocket 6k. 

[Michael Steiner]

21 minutes ago, Rinad Amir said:

Now as for Canon 1dxmiii i cannot film in daylight with tiny screen due to sun reflection (Just use the dam Ninja v !!!) But it doesnt recieve raw data signal so exposure isnt accurete and that 100euro atomos cable doesnt work in 4k60p😪 autofocus is loud from canon BUT accurate .H265 is nighmare on my rig so i have to transcode it etc ,this thing piss me off after shelling twice more for 1dxmiii ! 

You bought a 6k $ camera and around 4k $ worth of lenses and found out these things only after your purchase...? I'd love to have the means to invest like that 😬

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, Django said:

I'm honestly thinking about dropping my C200. Can't really justify keeping it alongside the FS7 in the current climate (even though on CS, ergonomics, DPAF & RAW capabilities it crushes the FS7). I'm holding small hope for a middle codec but if not it'll be up for sale soon which really bums me out.. 😒

I know you feel bad about it, but I think it makes sense in the current economic climate. No sense to hold onto two similar but different cameras, hold onto which ever one is getting you more work and sell the other

 

  

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

What not up for debate are what camera footage is easier to grade and what camera color science lines up with the most accurate pleasing color that mixes perfectly with what we see with our own eyes.

Arri does this and Canon does this the best.

Wrong, color can be subjective. 

Heck, the debate in the stills world of Nikon vs Canon colors has been going on far longer than the HDSLR colors debate has gone on for filmmakers!

Yes, some color science / brands get a far great majority of people preferring it than others. Like ARRI for instance will get almost universal appreciation, but even ARRI can get a few crazy holdouts who will say they don't like it as much as something else!

Plus what is "best" can be project dependent, the color science you might pick for a cheerful romantic comedy might not be the same as your preference for a dark horror. 

[Rinad Amir]

7 minutes ago, Michi said:

You bought a 6k $ camera and around 4k $ worth of lenses and found out these things only after your purchase...? I'd love to have the means to invest like that 😬

No i knew about the shortcoming of the 1dxmiii my reason getting it was 12bit Raw in 5.5k with Canon glorius autofocus.

Now thinking okay fuck it i cant film in day time its to bright let me whip out Ninja V for exoposure etc and thats when u get that fucking hammer! U cannot use Raw with V for exposing .

So ok let me use 4k60p than...nothing no signal! Works only in 24p and thats with official Atomos Hdmi to mini cable 2.0 

Its just rant i will gert over it😪.

 

 

[Super8]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Wrong, color can be subjective. 

Heck, the debate in the stills world of Nikon vs Canon colors has been going on far longer than the HDSLR colors debate has gone on for filmmakers!

Yes, some color science / brands get a far great majority of people preferring it than others. Like ARRI for instance will get almost universal appreciation, but even ARRI can get a few crazy holdouts who will say they don't like it as much as something else!

Plus what is "best" can be project dependent, the color science you might pick for a cheerful romantic comedy might not be the same as your preference for a dark horror. 

What you like or what i like is subjective. That's your opinion based on what you see. That's not what I'm talking about.

 It's a fact footage that's produced by specific camera companies capture the color spectrum better than others. What you see in a graded video has been pushed and pulled and adjusted by the editor or colorist.  The final image is no different than the photo from Nikon or Canon camera.  Unless you are on set and capture the image or see it happen, then you have no reference point to say it was good or bad.

So unless you as an audio guy have spent time, alot of time as a colorist then all you're doing is saying I like that photo better than that one. 

Arri and Canon get shadow color right and have the best all around balance of color.

[Super8]

1 hour ago, Rinad Amir said:

No i knew about the shortcoming of the 1dxmiii my reason getting it was 12bit Raw in 5.5k with Canon glorius autofocus.

Now thinking okay fuck it i cant film in day time its to bright let me whip out Ninja V for exoposure etc and thats when u get that fucking hammer! U cannot use Raw with V for exposing .

So ok let me use 4k60p than...nothing no signal! Works only in 24p and thats with official Atomos Hdmi to mini cable 2.0 

Its just rant i will gert over it😪.

What are you filming in day time that you can't use the view finder?   How much research have you done with the issues you talk about?  That sounds like an Atomos problem. They seem to over promise and under delivery all the time.