Sony PMW-F3 with 2500 hours on it. Should I buy it?

[Nimatu]

7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

@OttoVGet a Blackmagic Video Assist HD 5inch. I went that road. It was recommended in this thread either by Ironfilm or Ben Ericson. You would want the F3 with the 444 update as that gives you to opportunity to recorde 10bit 422 up to 60p to a BMVA 5inch.

Hello! I have carefully read this thread and others but still cannot understand one thing. If I want to buy Sony F3, what do I need to record 10 bit 422 60fps? BVA and that's it? Or is it absolutely necessary that the camera be with firmware RGB444? If so, how do I identify it with the purchase? Thanks everyone for the answers.

[Andrew Calvetti]

I think if the seller doesn't list the RGB444 upgrade in the item description, it's probably safe to assume it's not present. Like others have maybe said already, it was an update that came fairly late in the game for the F3, and I think anyone who's trying to offload one today knows that it's a huge selling point. They're probably not going to throw it in as an unspoken freebie.

[IronFilm]

On 5/11/2021 at 1:12 PM, Nimatu said:

Hello! I have carefully read this thread and others but still cannot understand one thing. If I want to buy Sony F3, what do I need to record 10 bit 422 60fps? BVA and that's it? Or is it absolutely necessary that the camera be with firmware RGB444? If so, how do I identify it with the purchase? Thanks everyone for the answers.

You absolutely do need the paid RGB update. 

And yes I agree, it's unlikely you'll get an F3 with this if it wasn't already advertised with it. 

[OttoV]

So no point in buying a new 0h F3 because u can’t have the upgrade and without it its just meh.

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, OttoV said:

So no point in buying a new 0h F3 because u can’t have the upgrade and without it its just meh.

There isn't a HUGE difference between the F3 with the paid RGB update vs the F3 with the very s-log firmware. 
From my personal perspective, the biggest difference is having 10bit 60fps vs not. (and for me, even though my F3 is capable of it, I can't do it anyway because I'm using an Atomos Samurai Blade, as the BMD VA didn't exist cheaply secondhand back then)

[kye]

This came up in my feedlot sure if it's been posted already but a search didn't reveal any hits:

There's some great info in the comments about equipment, settings and process.

[IronFilm]

 

[Nimatu]

On 5/13/2021 at 2:53 AM, IronFilm said:

And yes I agree, it's unlikely you'll get an F3 with this if it wasn't already advertised with it. 

However I still do not understand how to identify RGB inside the camera. For example, the wife of a dead cameraman sells a camera and has no idea about RGB.😀

[IronFilm]

It will be there under the submenu, you'd have the option to offload it if you wish. 

[PannySVHS]

Holy cow, fellaritas and fellas! I need your HELP @IronFilm @BenEricson@TheRenaissanceMan@Geoff CB! Sorry for calling out loud. But I have a small gig tomorrow and was gonna use my F3. I have one with the RGB update plus a Blackmagic Videoassist. I will have to record internally tomorrow for convinience and onemanband. For bright sunlight I want to use SLOG. For a lot of situations the internal 8bit 420 is pretty nice.

So, problem is. Me dummy did a reset of settings and deleted all picture profiles. SLOG gone! Bummer! How do I get this beauty of a profile back? This sucks onion juice, I´m tellin ya.

Thanks for helping! cheers

[PannySVHS]

Darn, you dudes are busy. Well, I found a way to set the Gamma to SLOG, but I cannot choose Preview Lut, which is greyed out. Also, before reset, info on my screen was S-Log, when chosen. Now it´s pp7 or whatever profile I am using Slog as gamma for. Still weird.

Anyway, used my Fs700, second time and for a paid gig. So thats a moneymaker in 420 HD right there. 🙂 It´s lighter and image looks sufficient enough, colours are nice but not great. Still a nice change compared to a GH5, softer (not talking resolution but sharpness), somehow less video. GH5 graded well can look epic though. Codec is a monster. So still no F3 love yet for me to this point. 😕 It´s all in weight and the rigging and battery life, which worked well for my FS700.

[IronFilm]

Why not do a rec709 PP if you're going to shoot 8bit internal with the F3?

[Dogtown]

If you are on firmware version V1.40 the S Log should be loaded in the picture profile menu. If you have V1.40 it should be there.

In V1.45 I believe Sony had the paid RGB version in that firmware. You can still find the free S Log V1.40 from Sony, It's out there.

AbleCine have some really nice Picture Profiles you can load from their website. Search Sony F3 Loads of info on the camera.

It really makes a difference shooting in the best codec you can when recording S Log. The 444 RGB looks amazing coming out of the F3.

 

BB

 

[PannySVHS]

Guys, thanks for giving your info. Why does it show pp7 for chosen pp7 but not S-Log, which I have chosen as Gamma. Before reset it did show S-Log on the screen, once chosen.

I have the 444 update. Just couldnt find a way to regain S-Log after reset. Found it in the Gamma settings. So thats it? 

Slog 420 on the F3 is doing amazingly well. I had test files on my the card when I bought it. Amazing files, color response felt like 10bit HD on the GH5 to me, artefact hell was amazingly absent.

In sunlight, as yesterday for my gig, Fs700 had to do it and I am happy with the results i got with Slog2. Hopefully that Slog is still THE Slog, TheRenaissanceMan or Ben Ericson have been talking about, if I remember right, as the were exchanging about two different settings in this thread.

 

[Dogtown]

Go to your PP8 or any PP. Go to SET scroll down to Gamma, scroll down to S Log.

 

BB

[PannySVHS]

@Dogtown Thanks. Thats what I was doing and what I meant. :)  My question was, if that is still the same SLOG as there was before in all regards, Ben and Renaissance have been talking about two different Slog settings for the same Gamma of Slog alias Slog1. Slog does not show up on working screen, just "PP" with whatever number, fi "PP8" and likes.

Also, I cannot choose a monitor Lut. It´s greyed out in the menu.

[Dogtown]

On the DVXUSER site there was some debate on the two S Logs, the one paid and the one released by Sony in the V1.40 Firmware.

You would have to do a search on the DVX site. I would always use an external monitor to use a LUT. The built in LUT I think only came with the paid upgrade.

You could learn how to expose with the S Log only? One nice feature on the Firmware V1.40 is that you can dial in your color temp! On the paid

S Log you only have either 3200K or 5600K.

 

BB 

[PannySVHS]

No F3s on German Ebay at the moment. They get rare. Was thinkin of selling mine. But maybe I would regret. Have not filmed anything with it yet. I realize it´s one of the few affordable high quality HD cameras. FS700 is not due to the highlight aliasing in HD, which I had to experience during a commercial shoot a few weeks ago. With internal recording I consider it to be the better and cheaper C300 MK1.

[TomTheDP]

Just picked one up for $600 on eBay also got a Pix E5 recorder. I am still a bit confused as to whether you can record 10 bit 60p off the Pix E5.

Waiting on everything to come. I am trying to kit it out now so I can start using it immediately. 

[PannySVHS]

600, wow! With RGB update? Pix E5 incluede? That would be insane! Mine has the update, which not only gives it 444 in 24p with 444 recorders but also full HD up to 60p in 10bit 422 over one 3G SDI connection to the Blackmagic VA. Thanks to Dave aka Ironfilm I went the BMVA route. Bought the camera a year ago but still have not filmed anything other than a minute outside of my kitchen. But I have had an obsession with it due to the images I saw on the web.

@IronFilm I have the FS700 as well but the highlight aliasing made me unpleased about an otherwise really cool and practical camera. No matter what others say. Shooting sufficient internal HD would have been really cool for low end corporate stuff. Bringing the Shogun along for low end projects does not seem to me really adequate, rather overkill for little money and single operator jobs. Question: would you recommend a Sony F5 with the 4K update for 3000 with shoulderrig, handle and EVF? Or just be happy with the F3 internal for small corporate and rent bigger for other stuff? I think I answered my question already: get started with the F3 🙂

This week I asked a production if they want a big camera or if they just care about great image quality. They said the latter. So this weekend it's S1 only in the wild. F3 gotta be the came for personal projects I guess.