Sony PMW-F3 with 2500 hours on it. Should I buy it?

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Question: would you recommend a Sony F5 with the 4K update for 3000 with shoulderrig, handle and EVF? Or just be happy with the F3 internal for small corporate and rent bigger for other stuff? I think I answered my question already: get started with the F3 🙂

The F5 is the obvious natural "upgrade" from the F3. 
However, kinda bizarrely I think the FS7 is worth mildly more out in the free market when it comes to getting work as "a man with a camera". (just because the FS7 has been the "de facto standard"

 

3 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Bought the camera a year ago but still have not filmed anything other than a minute outside of my kitchen.

But this here is the biggest reason of all as to why you shouldn't buy a F5 (or FS7). 
 

[TomTheDP]

4 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

600, wow! With RGB update? Pix E5 incluede? That would be insane! Mine has the update, which not only gives it 444 in 24p with 444 recorders but also full HD up to 60p in 10bit 422 over one 3G SDI connection to the Blackmagic VA. Thanks to Dave aka Ironfilm I went the BMVA route. Bought the camera a year ago but still have not filmed anything other than a minute outside of my kitchen. But I have had an obsession with it due to the images I saw on the web.

@IronFilm I have the FS700 as well but the highlight aliasing made me unpleased about an otherwise really cool and practical camera. No matter what others say. Shooting sufficient internal HD would have been really cool for low end corporate stuff. Bringing the Shogun along for low end projects does not seem to me really adequate, rather overkill for little money and single operator jobs. Question: would you recommend a Sony F5 with the 4K update for 3000 with shoulderrig, handle and EVF? Or just be happy with the F3 internal for small corporate and rent bigger for other stuff? I think I answered my question already: get started with the F3 🙂

This week I asked a production if they want a big camera or if they just care about great image quality. They said the latter. So this weekend it's S1 only in the wild. F3 gotta be the came for personal projects I guess.

It was $600 for the camera(after taxes) and $580 for the Pix E5 plus two 256gb ssds. Still a pretty good deal IMO. I bought a bunch of cables and other accessories to help kit it out. Hoping to put together fairly ergonomic rig with it powered off of a single V mount battery. My other option was getting an Alexa Classic. But the F3 is 1/3rd the weight, 1/4 the power draw, and has internal ND's. It doesn't have the Alexa's dynamic range but I think the color science is just as good. 

It will be my personal project camera and for clients who don't ask for 4k, which is most of my clients honestly. 

I actually looked at the F5 as well. I think its a really cool option with 4k 60p 422 and a global shutter. 3200 iso also seems pretty nice on it. I think Sony dropped the ball with their color science after the F35 and F3 though. 

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I actually looked at the F5 as well. I think its a really cool option with 4k 60p 422 and a global shutter. 3200 iso also seems pretty nice on it. I think Sony dropped the ball with their color science after the F35 and F3 though. 

The F5 doesn't have global shutter. 

The F55 does! (but suffers from a lower base ISO than the F5)

I just noticed how much the Sony F55 prices have continued to drop. You can get one here for just US$5.5K: https://www.ebay.com/itm/124658333277
And if you'd prefer an OLED viewfinder instead, here is another Sony F55 for only slightly more: https://www.ebay.com/itm/324443097872

[TomTheDP]

11 hours ago, IronFilm said:

The F5 doesn't have global shutter. 

The F55 does! (but suffers from a lower base ISO than the F5)

I just noticed how much the Sony F55 prices have continued to drop. You can get one here for just US$5.5K: https://www.ebay.com/itm/124658333277
And if you'd prefer an OLED viewfinder instead, here is another Sony F55 for only slightly more: https://www.ebay.com/itm/324443097872

Ah shoot, I thought they both had global, never mind. I believe the F55 also does 2k 444 internal, but I can't find specs to confirm that atm. 

Would definitely swing for an F3 over the F5. I think the FS7 is probably a good option over the F5 as the prices are similar. 

[IronFilm]

19 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Ah shoot, I thought they both had global, never mind. I believe the F55 also does 2k 444 internal, but I can't find specs to confirm that atm. 

Does even better, does 4K 444:
https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/939-sony-f55-f5-gets-4k-444-rgb

  

19 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Would definitely swing for an F3 over the F5.

Did you write that back to front by accident?
  

19 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I think the FS7 is probably a good option over the F5 as the prices are similar. 

Depends on the niche you work in, but yeah for most people they're likely to find the FS7 is in somewhat higher demand than a F5. 

[PannySVHS]

On 7/22/2021 at 3:05 PM, IronFilm said:

  On 7/22/2021 at 11:22 AM, PannySVHS said:

Bought the camera a year ago but still have not filmed anything other than a minute outside of my kitchen.

But this here is the biggest reason of all as to why you shouldn't buy a F5 (or FS7). 

Thanks, mate. Really, sometimes it´s hard to see the obvious!

I thought of the F5 as a substitute for my F3 and FS700, for both of their purposes, corporate and "cinematic" projects as well. I find it surprising that until now I have never read about the highlight aliasing of the FS700 in internal HD. I was surprised to see such a strong case of it in my footage. It´s strong like from a Canon 7D in 720 50p mode. The web does not show much info or videos on it, except a very few posts on dvxuser. Indeed surprising. F3 has clean internal HD from my tiny practical experience with it.

So I will use the F3 barebones for corporate and for the cinematic projects with the BMVA. Just sayin where I was coming from. So thanks for helping me out on getting my thougths into perspective.

So that means, F55 and F5 do 444 in 4K? Tempting 🙂

[TomTheDP]

12 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Did you write that back to front by accident?
  

No I think the F3 image is nicer, unless you need 4k.

[PannySVHS]

 

Darn me, and i still have not used my F3 yet. Cannot wait to try this beauty! I wanted to use it on a shortfilm but the director wanted the c300ii. I sneaked in a bit of GH5 and S1 though.:)

[PannySVHS]

Didnt know, it hat aliasing. Same with FS700 with internal HD, which produced aliasing in the hightlights during a corporate gig. Maybe the problem which occured to him has to do with  his use of the Ninja V. I got a Blackmagic VA for the F3. So I still have to test that, some time soon hopefully! Did you guys recognize nasties with external recording?

[BenEricson]

On 11/27/2021 at 9:22 AM, PannySVHS said:

Didnt know, it hat aliasing. Same with FS700 with internal HD, which produced aliasing in the hightlights during a corporate gig. Maybe the problem which occured to him has to do with  his use of the Ninja V. I got a Blackmagic VA for the F3. So I still have to test that, some time soon hopefully! Did you guys recognize nasties with external recording?

I think I’ve seen aliasing on a brick wall shooting 60p to an external recorder. Real world use, not sure I’ve ever seen it.

[Josue Nunez]

HI guys! Sorry this might be against the policy but I have an extra Pix E5 4k recorder with the XLR module that Im selling. I used to use it with my Sony F3. It will record 444XQ files from the F3. 

everything in the pictures for 1000$ 

[louiewithapen]

Has anyone experienced the ND filter being stuck on their F3? I’m trying to slide the tab to Off, but the filter is still partially showing. I can’t slide it all the way down to off. There’s resistance. Any suggestions for a fix?

[Hannes Famira]

On 4/26/2020 at 2:38 PM, BenEricson said:

It does 60p, you just need the 7Q recorder. The 444 model does 60p to the black magic video assist tho.

I just checked the website and the specs say that the Video Sampling does not go beyond 4:2:2. Are you sure about that 4:4:4? Where can I find that? This is where I found the info: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicvideoassist/techspecs/W-VASS-04

[BenEricson]

13 hours ago, Hannes Famira said:

I just checked the website and the specs say that the Video Sampling does not go beyond 4:2:2. Are you sure about that 4:4:4? Where can I find that? This is where I found the info: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicvideoassist/techspecs/W-VASS-04

With the external Pix recorder, (like the one above) and the 444 model, it possible to record 12 bit 444 ProRes files. I’m not sure if this works in 60p though.

Honestly though, the color depth on the F3 is fantastic. I was always super impressed with the 10 bit ProRes files.

[PannySVHS]

@Hannes Famira Afaik, with the 444 RGB upgrade the F3 spits out 10 bit 444, with choice for either Slog (1:) or Rec709, so no linear 12bit+. High quality 10bit Log with a sufficient codec equals or betters 12bit linear Raw, if I got Alister Chapman right, who has done tests with the FS700 and FS7 regarding that. You can read it on his website. I found one source, stating for 12bit output but that's one vs a majority ofsources.

444 does not for higher framerates than 24p I think, for sure not higher than 30p. You need a recorder like Pix, Odyssey or Cinedeck for 444. Blackmagic does 422 though. With the 444 RGB upgrade one can record up to 60p in 10bit 422 to a 3G Blackmagic VA and the other recorders as well. People have stated the 422 material is very good.

[TomTheDP]

Yeah the benefit of the 444 version as well is being able to do 60p out of a single SDI.

The Sony menus are a pain but the files are amazing to work with. It doesn't like overexposure but it's phenomenal in the shadows. The camera is truly amazing in low light. I honestly would pick it above newer full frame options. The color and noise is so much nicer.

[BenEricson]

On 1/25/2022 at 8:25 PM, TomTheDP said:

Yeah the benefit of the 444 version as well is being able to do 60p out of a single SDI.

The Sony menus are a pain but the files are amazing to work with. It doesn't like overexposure but it's phenomenal in the shadows. The camera is truly amazing in low light. I honestly would pick it above newer full frame options. The color and noise is so much nicer.

Agreed. They nailed it with that camera. The electronic EF mount works really well. I really really wish it did internal ProRes. I wouldn’t have sold mine.

[Hannes Famira]

On 1/17/2022 at 2:56 AM, BenEricson said:

With the external Pix recorder, (like the one above) and the 444 model, it possible to record 12 bit 444 ProRes files. I’m not sure if this works in 60p though.

Apologies, I should have been more precise. My comment was a reaction to the claim that the 444 model does 60p to the black magic video assist. I can confirm that the camera outputs this high quality signal but the information about the BlackMagic Video Assist says it tops out at 4:2:2. Am I reading this wrong?

[webrunner5]

 Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4 Recorder was the only real solution back in the day I remember working well in 4 4 4 mode. There was some AJI stuff, but not as popular as the Convergent. No clue on the Blackmagic, never used one.

[IronFilm]

On 11/24/2021 at 8:15 AM, PannySVHS said:

darn, well, that will help keep the secondhand prices of the F3 high 🤣😂