Sony PMW-F3 with 2500 hours on it. Should I buy it?

[IronFilm]

On 10/30/2023 at 2:59 PM, zlfan said:

 He used ex3 as the crash cam for his fx9. Makes sense. 

Exactly! That's why I shared the video, I thought it was quite interesting. 

As it is amazing that such a very old camera could be a stand in for the latest and greatest (the Sony FX9). 

Should make us pause and appreciate about what's so great and accessible that we have already available to us now in eBay very cheaply 

[zlfan]

On 11/2/2023 at 2:45 AM, IronFilm said:

Exactly! That's why I shared the video, I thought it was quite interesting. 

As it is amazing that such a very old camera could be a stand in for the latest and greatest (the Sony FX9). 

Should make us pause and appreciate about what's so great and accessible that we have already available to us now in eBay very cheaply 

Actually I like EX1/EX3 color better than FS7/FS5/FX9/FX6 etc. That CCD vintage wine tastes well. 

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, zlfan said:

Actually I like EX1/EX3 color better than FS7/FS5/FX9/FX6 etc. That CCD vintage wine tastes well. 

Just got to have plenty of light and be ok with deeper DoF! And be ok with FHD, and not 4K. And not need slow motion. 

Both traits/requirements that are perfectly fine for the gigs that The Cranky Cameraman was on in those videos. 

His channel in general I think is quite a good watch for lots of people who visit EOSHD who are at that sort of level (doing solo or very small crew work, but still making a very good living from that). 

Here is another video talking about EX3 vs FS7:

 The evil camera gear GAS bug bites me in wanting a Sony PMW-EX3 as well. (or the even cheaper EX1)

Or hey, I've been commenting a bit lately about the Panasonic Varicam LT & Panasonic BS1H, so maybe I should look more into the Panasonic equivalent?

I don't know the Panasonic range so well though, what would be the Panasonic equivalent to the EX1/EX3 from Sony? 

Perhaps the Panasonic AG-HPX250? (kinda equivalent to the EX1?) Or the Panasonic AG-HPX300 / 370 (kinda equivalent to the EX3??) Or go nuts for the big beasty Panasonic AJ-HPX3000, with 1080p 10bit 422 (body only is US$1.5K on ebay right now, but no lens / cards / batteries ) 

[PannySVHS]

Hehe, EX1/3 don't have CCDs @zlfan 🙂 Smiling, because I had been thinking that for a while. But their 3 sensor imager does some nice things. Codec can be brittle though sometimes, some 35mbit mpeg2 flavour. From my little experience, the EX1 and 3 are as good in lowlight as a GH2. EX3 looked fabulous on Monsters, for which S35 adapters were used and Nikon glass I think. There is a nice BTS on youtube, maybe even the film. Btw, Philipp Blooms colours on the EX1 or 3 look much, much better than his grading attempts on the Fs7, F5, etc. 😂 

The HPX250 comes with Pannys 100mbit 10 bit 422 codec, some alteration even with the monster 200mbit All Intra. Unfortunately it is not a 3 2/3 inch imager but much smaller, around 1/3. There are no 3 sensor 2/3 camcorders in this form factor. Would have loved a HPX250 with 3 2/3 sensors. I have been fascinated by 3 sensor cameras for a long time for their colour output and have been tempted to get a HPX250. It would be my Andromeda DVX100 substitute.😊

You were not to buy any camera, new or old! @IronFilmNeither should I.😂

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

Codec can be brittle though sometimes, some 35mbit mpeg2 flavour.

That's why a lot of the Sony EX3 shooters would pair with with a nanoflash recorder for more premium shoots. 

Of course the  Panasonic AJ-HPX3000 doesn't have that problem with its 1080p 10bit 422 😉

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

From my little experience, the EX1 and 3 are as good in lowlight as a GH2. EX3 looked fabulous on Monsters, for which S35 adapters were used and Nikon glass I think.

Correct!

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

The HPX250 comes with Pannys 100mbit 10 bit 422 codec, some alteration even with the monster 200mbit All Intra. Unfortunately it is not a 3 2/3 inch imager but much smaller, around 1/3.

Yeah, it's always a trade off somewhere with these older cheap cameras! 😞

1) very lightweight codecs (sometimes you can work around that, with external recorders. Or it doesn't matter, as you're using it for live streaming purposes)

2) teeny sensors (well... even 2/3" is "small", but it's "large" relative to this, and what I'd prefer. But I'd like at least 1/2" like the EX1/EX3 is, not any less)

3) only 720p and/or 1080i (this is a very common issue with the Panasonics, they were slower

4) not worldwide (you can't do both 25 & 30)

5) no SDI (quite a few of these older / lower end ones would only have RCA as the video output, or might have SDI but only SD not FHD over SDI)

6) no interchangeable lenses (ideally B4 mount, but something like EX3's mount I guess I could live with that gets adapted to B4)

It's quite hard to find an older camera which hits all of these points and stays well under US$1K in being easily able to find 

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

You were not to buy any camera, new or old! @IronFilmNeither should I.😂

Sooo true! I need to resist. 

Today a mate on Instagram (he's an EOSHD user too) asked me about what gear I had in mind to get:

Me: 

On the topic of Sonys, if you know about anybody looking to buy a Sony FS7 I've got one for sale

Time to sell it and buy more sound gear instead

Oops, slip of the tongue

I meant, and NOT spend more money on gear 🙄😅

Him:

Ohh what gear u looking for next 😏

Me: 

Thinking I might move a bit more over from Lectrosonics to Sony Digital

Might also change my Lectrosonics IFB setup from running in blk22 to blk20

Although ugh, that's such a big hassle as I've got so much stuff in those frequencies

But these Sonys are so wideband , blk22 creeps into the bottom of it, and I'd rather keep my Lectrosonics IFB transmitters going out of my bag far away from my incoming receivers frequency range

Also why I want to buy a RF filter I think, turn my wideband into narrowband ish.

I kinda want two of these: https://www.rfvenue.com/hardware/rf-accessories-and-parts/band-pass-filters But they have nothing in the frequencies I need it to be in 😞 This is a new product, not in production and available to buy yet, however I think it could be the closest to what I need: https://www.audiowireless.co.uk/online-store/DIGITALLY-TUNED-DUAL-ANTENNA-FILTER-DT-BOOST-2-p481882216 Just waiting on specs/price I guess, fingers crossed! 

Him:

Oops I shouldn't have asked 😂

Me:

haha, and that's just scratching the surface!

although yeah nah, I need to resist spending any more money this year. But I earlier this year upgraded my boom audio to having two Sony DWT-P01N transmitters (for the last several years my Boom Ops would use Sound Devices MM1 running into a Lectrosonics Digital Hybrid bodypack transmitter), as I felt that was a better path than going with Lectrosonics DPR or Shure AD3 transmitters which were the other two main choices for digital wireless that I was considering. However that then just opens the door to lots of other changes I want too

[zlfan]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

Hehe, EX1/3 don't have CCDs @zlfan 🙂 Smiling, because I had been thinking that for a while. But their 3 sensor imager does some nice things. Codec can be brittle though sometimes, some 35mbit mpeg2 flavour. From my little experience, the EX1 and 3 are as good in lowlight as a GH2. EX3 looked fabulous on Monsters, for which S35 adapters were used and Nikon glass I think. There is a nice BTS on youtube, maybe even the film. Btw, Philipp Blooms colours on the EX1 or 3 look much, much better than his grading attempts on the Fs7, F5, etc. 😂 

The HPX250 comes with Pannys 100mbit 10 bit 422 codec, some alteration even with the monster 200mbit All Intra. Unfortunately it is not a 3 2/3 inch imager but much smaller, around 1/3. There are no 3 sensor 2/3 camcorders in this form factor. Would have loved a HPX250 with 3 2/3 sensors. I have been fascinated by 3 sensor cameras for a long time for their colour output and have been tempted to get a HPX250. It would be my Andromeda DVX100 substitute.😊

You were not to buy any camera, new or old! @IronFilmNeither should I.😂

ex1/3 has 3 ccds, pmw200 and later uses 3 cmoss. i never care those 1/2 inch 3-cmos cams. 

[zlfan]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Just got to have plenty of light and be ok with deeper DoF! And be ok with FHD, and not 4K. And not need slow motion. 

Both traits/requirements that are perfectly fine for the gigs that The Cranky Cameraman was on in those videos. 

His channel in general I think is quite a good watch for lots of people who visit EOSHD who are at that sort of level (doing solo or very small crew work, but still making a very good living from that). 

Here is another video talking about EX3 vs FS7:

 The evil camera gear GAS bug bites me in wanting a Sony PMW-EX3 as well. (or the even cheaper EX1)

Or hey, I've been commenting a bit lately about the Panasonic Varicam LT & Panasonic BS1H, so maybe I should look more into the Panasonic equivalent?

I don't know the Panasonic range so well though, what would be the Panasonic equivalent to the EX1/EX3 from Sony? 

Perhaps the Panasonic AG-HPX250? (kinda equivalent to the EX1?) Or the Panasonic AG-HPX300 / 370 (kinda equivalent to the EX3??) Or go nuts for the big beasty Panasonic AJ-HPX3000, with 1080p 10bit 422 (body only is US$1.5K on ebay right now, but no lens / cards / batteries ) 

i followed cranky's channel for some time now. i accidentally stumped on his video on amira, which he thinks the best eng cam. 

[zlfan]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Just got to have plenty of light and be ok with deeper DoF! And be ok with FHD, and not 4K. And not need slow motion. 

Both traits/requirements that are perfectly fine for the gigs that The Cranky Cameraman was on in those videos. 

His channel in general I think is quite a good watch for lots of people who visit EOSHD who are at that sort of level (doing solo or very small crew work, but still making a very good living from that). 

Here is another video talking about EX3 vs FS7:

 The evil camera gear GAS bug bites me in wanting a Sony PMW-EX3 as well. (or the even cheaper EX1)

Or hey, I've been commenting a bit lately about the Panasonic Varicam LT & Panasonic BS1H, so maybe I should look more into the Panasonic equivalent?

I don't know the Panasonic range so well though, what would be the Panasonic equivalent to the EX1/EX3 from Sony? 

Perhaps the Panasonic AG-HPX250? (kinda equivalent to the EX1?) Or the Panasonic AG-HPX300 / 370 (kinda equivalent to the EX3??) Or go nuts for the big beasty Panasonic AJ-HPX3000, with 1080p 10bit 422 (body only is US$1.5K on ebay right now, but no lens / cards / batteries ) 

you are right that his style fits most of us. in his reply he mentioned that he was involved in narrative feature making at LA, but he sees most dps have broken relationship so he changes to high end news and corporate to have a balanced life. 

[PannySVHS]

EX1/3 have exactely that, 3 CMOS sensors,  1/2 inches each @zlfan 😊 Still cool cams. Really like the EX1's ergos and lens with nice zoom and focus rings and servo zoom lever. Despite in a 10bit container,  output over SDI is still only giving 8bit colour. Don't know if true 422 or not. Pana HPX250 is definitely a cam i wanna try. A 2/3 inch sensor version of it with interchangeable lenses... Nerds have different wants than other people:) A 100mbit AF100. Love the body and the huge eye piece of that cam. GH5II sensor and codecs in a AF100 body. Dreamcam. Nerds are weird.:)

[zlfan]

3 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

EX1/3 have exactely that, 3 CMOS sensors,  1/2 inches each @zlfan 😊 Still cool cams. Really like the EX1's ergos and lens with nice zoom and focus rings and servo zoom lever. Despite in a 10bit container,  output over SDI is still only giving 8bit colour. Don't know if true 422 or not. Pana HPX250 is definitely a cam i wanna try. A 2/3 inch sensor version of it with interchangeable lenses... Nerds have different wants than other people:) A 100mbit AF100. Love the body and the huge eye piece of that cam. GH5II sensor and codecs in a AF100 body. Dreamcam. Nerds are weird.:)

just did some research, you are right, ex1 ex3 are cmos based. always thought they are ccd based. anyways, good to know, will pass. 

[zlfan]

https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/panasonic-video-cameras/hmc-cams/217372-panasonic-hmc150-or-sony-ex1

 

seems ccd beats cmos at panning, but losses at low light. 

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, zlfan said:

you are right that his style fits most of us. in his reply he mentioned that he was involved in narrative feature making at LA, but he sees most dps have broken relationship so he changes to high end news and corporate to have a balanced life. 

I 100% can and do see that, I agree. 

Know quite a few people who don't do narratives any more because of those hours and grind it takes on your life, focusing instead on something else like docos or commercials. 

16 hours ago, zlfan said:

i followed cranky's channel for some time now. i accidentally stumped on his video on amira, which he thinks the best eng cam. 

If image quality is what you want, then yeah ARRI AMIRA is "the best" ENG camera. 

Not so good in some other areas though (like size, weight, powering demands!). 

7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Still cool cams. Really like the EX1's ergos and lens with nice zoom and focus rings and servo zoom lever. Despite in a 10bit container,  output over SDI is still only giving 8bit colour. Don't know if true 422 or not.

I think the big reason people would use the nanoflash recorder with it was just so they could have anything which was better than that lightweight 35mbs codec

7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Pana HPX250 is definitely a cam i wanna try. A 2/3 inch sensor version of it with interchangeable lenses...

One with 2/3" & B4 mount? So you mean the Panasonic AG-HPX500 perhaps? 

There is one on eBay right now that just got listed for US$545:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266503459184 

7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Nerds have different wants than other people:) A 100mbit AF100. Love the body and the huge eye piece of that cam. GH5II sensor and codecs in a AF100 body. Dreamcam. Nerds are weird.:)

If you can settle for the GH4 sensor instead there is the Panasonic DVX200! 😛

Wish they'd kept on updating the DVX200 each time there was a new GH series sensor. Or even better, let you swap out the lens on the DVX200!

[PannySVHS]

Hpx500😂 I meant in the form factor of a Hpx250:) @IronFilm There are no 3x2/3 sensor cams in that compact size. Next thing would be single consumer 1inch cams like sony ax1000 or uber expensive pro models. Hpx 500 sensors in a 250 body would have been perfect and would be highly affordable now on the used market. Dvx200:) 8bit but a bit beefier codec than a GH4 with 150mbit in 4k, same crop in 4k like the GH4, making it a 1inch sensor cam in that mode irc. Don't know about the HD quality. For me just stellar 10bit Hd up to 50/60 with 3x 2/3 sensor magic in a EX1 or Hpx250 body would be my vintage dream cam. My LX10/15 has 2/3 sensor estate in 4K and i am loving the DOF characteristics at f2.8. It's like S35 at F8.

[zlfan]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:19 AM, Triste Han said:

 

thanks! I figured it out.

Very nice footage. 

How did you manage to move the F3 camera? I see you almost have movement in every shot. 

[muziektelevisie]

I've been following this thread for a long time, and finally I have something of myself to share. I made this short with the Sony F3 and the sigma fp. The majority of the non-dialogue shots (including the 1 min intro shot) were with the F3. All the dialogue shots were with the sigma fp. I really like the organic, textured nature of the F3's image.
 

 

[PannySVHS]

I still got my F3 waiting for prime time. Well, that would be leisure time personal filmvignettemaking.;) Meanwhile, when I am still talking, some others have been walking: some more Cinealta F3 goodness and some tasty 80ies style color palette and visual vibe. Wanna do an 8bit F3 filmvignette? I would finally have a fun reason to use mine. @IronFilm

 

[PannySVHS]

More Cinealta F3 goodness. Something about the footage that dslms are lacking. There is just something magical about textures and hues. Anyone up for an 8bit "challenge"? We could do an 8bit cinema beast challenge with 8bit heavyweights like F3, C100, C300, AF100, DVX200, JVC LS300 and so on. Open weight class with some heavy hitters like a S1H in 200mbit 8bit S35 HD mode competing with a modest G7.😊

 

[kye]

8 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

More Cinealta F3 goodness. Something about the footage that dslms are lacking. There is just something magical about textures and hues. Anyone up for an 8bit "challenge"? We could do an 8bit cinema beast challenge with 8bit heavyweights like F3, C100, C300, AF100, DVX200, JVC LS300 and so on. Open weight class with some heavy hitters like a S1H in 200mbit 8bit S35 HD mode competing with a modest G7.😊

 

I'm up for it... GX85 the whole way.  Probably with a heavy film emulation.  Although it seems that grading images to look like anything other than a camera test generates zero interest.

[Lewis78]

13 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

More Cinealta F3 goodness. Something about the footage that dslms are lacking. There is just something magical about textures and hues. Anyone up for an 8bit "challenge"? We could do an 8bit cinema beast challenge with 8bit heavyweights like F3, C100, C300, AF100, DVX200, JVC LS300 and so on. Open weight class with some heavy hitters like a S1H in 200mbit 8bit S35 HD mode competing with a modest G7.😊

 

I like the reliability of the Cinealta F3. I can't say that the F3 is that much different from mirrorless cameras. It seems to me that modern cameras can produce equally high-quality images.

[PannySVHS]

I love the look of the video and it has a few hundred views already. So there is hope.:) @kye I still have the 420 8bit  Slog files which came with the SDX cards of my F3 and they grade like a charme. I think the F3 only looks good in Slog though, judging footage on the web. Unfortunately I have not been in the filming mood for months now. But a "challenge" with a few Eoshd friends could change that. Kye and Panny are in!:)