Sony A7S III wish list and the not-NAB 2020 no-show today

[Super8]

Nice write up about the R.

[Django]

@PaulUsher Couldn't have said it better myself. I've been using the R as a B-CAM to C100/C200 for Multicam shoots and it intercuts perfectly.

It also of course doubles as a mirrorless 5D stills cam. All my DSLR flash accessories etc work perfectly on it.

That's another great thing about Canon, cameras just work. Easy to operate. AF, WB, exposure always nailed. Clear menus, ergonomics.

Anyways, I was thinking of dropping my C200 in favour of my FS7, but with no A7S3 on the horizon, I'm now thinking R5+C200 may be a better combo.

Probably will wait a little longer but FS7 might actually get the axe. Again bad move on Sony delaying video oriented Alpha cam.

[thebrothersthre3]

4 hours ago, Django said:

@PaulUsher Couldn't have said it better myself. I've been using the R as a B-CAM to C100/C200 for Multicam shoots and it intercuts perfectly.

It also of course doubles as a mirrorless 5D stills cam. All my DSLR flash accessories etc work perfectly on it.

That's another great thing about Canon, cameras just work. Easy to operate. AF, WB, exposure always nailed. Clear menus, ergonomics.

Anyways, I was thinking of dropping my C200 in favour of my FS7, but with no A7S3 on the horizon, I'm now thinking R5+C200 may be a better combo.

Probably will wait a little longer but FS7 might actually get the axe. Again bad move on Sony delaying video oriented Alpha cam.

Why not the A73? The EOS R is just a mess though. I’ve thought about the 5d mk4 as I believe it actually has better rolling shutter performance. However you don’t get the amazing flip screen and the EOS R has superior dynamic range. I think you’ve said the EOS R has a S35 mode with detailed HD and I’m guessing less rolling shutter. Basically makes it a decent S35 camera. Though at that point would it not be better to get a C100 mk2 for video? I wish the EOS R could do 10 bit out in HD for less rolling shutter and maybe even full frame. I guess the C200 can’t even do 10 bit 4k out. I’m glad the days of gimped canon cameras are over. I do see how the EOS R is a no brained as a Bcam if you have another canon camera especially if you need a hybrid. 

[ade towell]

When I tried the Eos-r  the higher quality HD had bad RS like the cropped 4k did. Very disappointing. 

As you say hopefully the days of crap Canon hybrids is over

[Django]

Yeah in case it wasn't yet clear for anyone by now: EOS R has bad RS and a crop in 4K.

R5 will be bringing 8K RAW / 4K120p 10-bit 4:2:2. No crop. With DPAF. That's in only second generation jump.

Alpha series however are in their 4th gen  and still capping at UHD 30p 8-bit 100mbps XAVC-S codec.

Everyone is free to think what they want about brands/models/specs, and make their own assumptions but those are the facts folks.

 

[Thpriest]

An interchangeable lens full frame/apsc Canon XC-10 type body, eND, Prores and a quality image...yes please.

I would love to see a A7S3, GH6 or whatever camera in the XC10 style body with eND. I really don't understand why that hasn't happened as Canon were for once quite bold with a new idea when they released it.

[Mokara]

2 hours ago, Django said:

Yeah in case it wasn't yet clear for anyone by now: EOS R has bad RS and a crop in 4K.

R5 will be bringing 8K RAW / 4K120p 10-bit 4:2:2. No crop. With DPAF. That's in only second generation jump.

Alpha series however are in their 4th gen  and still capping at UHD 30p 8-bit 100mbps XAVC-S codec.

Everyone is free to think what they want about brands/models/specs, and make their own assumptions but those are the facts folks.

 

Do you have your R5 yet? For now it is vaporware, lol. We will see what Sony and Panasonic will be producing at the same time as the R5 shortly, so hold assessment until all the cameras actually show up!

[Django]

 

[PaulUsher]

4 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I’ve thought about the 5d mk4 as I believe it actually has better rolling shutter performance. However you don’t get the amazing flip screen and the EOS R has superior dynamic range. I think you’ve said the EOS R has a S35 mode with detailed HD and I’m guessing less rolling shutter. Basically makes it a decent S35 camera. Though at that point would it not be better to get a C100 mk2 for video? I wish the EOS R could do 10 bit out in HD for less rolling shutter and maybe even full frame. I guess the C200 can’t even do 10 bit 4k out. I’m glad the days of gimped canon cameras are over. I do see how the EOS R is a no brained as a Bcam if you have another canon camera especially if you need a hybrid. 

Thanks for engaging bro. I've read on here somewhere that the R's crop mode (both the 4K and 1080 flavours) is clocked at 28ms, same as 1DXIII FF4K30p, where the 5DMKIV is 30ms and the RP is 33ms. But who knows, and anyway it's splitting hairs isn't it? They're all shockers for RS!

LOVED my C100 (and C300), but I'm downsizing from the C line - I want something low-profile that I can hide under the table when it isn't stuck to my hand (highly recommend the Spiderpro handstrap for any mirrorless/dslr) and doesn't get me thrown out of places (when I can eventually get back into them...)

As for the days of gimped Canon cameras being over, well, we can pray (Amen).

@Django  &

@Super8

- thanks for the support, I'm a long-time reader, finally sticking it in - felt it needed to be said. Hopefully someone searching online will find it useful and make the most of their mpb-acquired R Classic. Who knows, maybe peeps will be giving sage advice in years to come: "you know, if you dont have the budget for an R5/R6/R1/RC, and you're only shooting 1080, the R Classic always had a bit of mojo - they're mad value used if you know their limitations..." - sound familiar? (C100?)

[PaulUsher]

48 minutes ago, Django said:

YOUTUBE HILTER REACTS TO CANON'S NEW R5 8K RAW [SUB ENG/ITA]

Love it! Did you make it

 

And if the R5 and R6 DO turn out to Crippled, we'll be singing this...

 

[thebrothersthre3]

2 hours ago, PaulUsher said:

Thanks for engaging bro. I've read on here somewhere that the R's crop mode (both the 4K and 1080 flavours) is clocked at 28ms, same as 1DXIII FF4K30p, where the 5DMKIV is 30ms and the RP is 33ms. But who knows, and anyway it's splitting hairs isn't it? They're all shockers for RS!

LOVED my C100 (and C300), but I'm downsizing from the C line - I want something low-profile that I can hide under the table when it isn't stuck to my hand (highly recommend the Spiderpro handstrap for any mirrorless/dslr) and doesn't get me thrown out of places (when I can eventually get back into them...)

As for the days of gimped Canon cameras being over, well, we can pray (Amen).

@Django  &

@Super8

- thanks for the support, I'm a long-time reader, finally sticking it in - felt it needed to be said. Hopefully someone searching online will find it useful and make the most of their mpb-acquired R Classic. Who knows, maybe peeps will be giving sage advice in years to come: "you know, if you dont have the budget for an R5/R6/R1/RC, and you're only shooting 1080, the R Classic always had a bit of mojo - they're mad value used if you know their limitations..." - sound familiar? (C100?)

I am pretty sure the rolling shutter is about half in 1080p modes but I could be wrong. That is usually the case on mirrorless cameras. Its easier to get past rolling shutter on the 1DX3 as it has such great frame rate/resolution/codec options. But I'll be sticking to my Fuji for now. We'll see what the R5 and R6 bring to the table upon release. Might get an EOS R at some point if they ever hit the 1k price point used. 

[ade towell]

Unfortunately the only mode I found RS acceptable on the eos-r was full frame HD but the image was closer to the soft Canon mush of their old dslrs than it was to the lovely detailed C100. Used C100s are still a great camera if you don't need 4k

[PaulUsher]

2 hours ago, ade towell said:

Unfortunately the only mode I found RS acceptable on the eos-r was full frame HD but the image was closer to the soft Canon mush of their old dslrs than it was to the lovely detailed C100. Used C100s are still a great camera if you don't need 4k

Exactly right. RS in crop mode is the same for 1080 as 4K - in fact there’s virtually no distinguishing the images. The FF is a different story, that typical mush you describe. A found very good test charts online here that illustrate the effects of Canon’s two traditional sampling methods in the R - this is how it’s always been for their stills bodies. Have they developed a new method for the R Pro bodies? Or will it be the same old story? Here are those charts: 

 

[Lajos Nagy]

32 minutes ago, PaulUsher said:

Exactly right. RS in crop mode is the same for 1080 as 4K - in fact there’s virtually no distinguishing the images. The FF is a different story, that typical mush you describe. A found very good test charts online here that illustrate the effects of Canon’s two traditional sampling methods in the R - this is how it’s always been for their stills bodies. Have they developed a new method for the R Pro bodies? Or will it be the same old story? Here are those charts: 

 

Just to add a more easily digestible, more immediately obvious way to show what's happening, here's the chart shot from the video in high-res.

Top to bottom: 1080p full sensor width, Video crop mode 1080p, then 4k on the bottom. 4k is scaled down to 1080p and exported to DNxHR HQX before being put next to the other footage to make it fair. The comparison is then rendered to a 4k timeline to remove the bottleneck there. Staggering how much of a difference there is between 1080p FF and 1080p crop. The jump from 1080p crop to 4k is nominal, comparatively.

[Mokara]

22 hours ago, Django said:

 

Like the Nikon DL series? It is a real camera when it is available for purchase. Development announcements don't count. It could arrive in 2023 or maybe never for all we know.

[ntblowz]

1 hour ago, Mokara said:

Like the Nikon DL series? It is a real camera when it is available for purchase. Development announcements don't count. It could arrive in 2023 or maybe never for all we know.

Lol just because Sony did no show doesnt mean other companies will follow through.

Though i think those cameras will be released on 2nd half of the year after pandemic is under control and logistic/supply is returning to normal (though it could be like 1918 flu which 2nd wave is even worse)

On 5/5/2020 at 5:28 AM, thebrothersthre3 said:

Why not the A73? The EOS R is just a mess though.

I used to have A7III before dumping it for eos R, it just fit our c100/c200 much better. 

Let's not forget VND adapter is the killer for video use.

[thebrothersthre3]

14 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Lol just because Sony did no show doesnt mean other companies will follow through.

Though i think those cameras will be released on 2nd half of the year after pandemic is under control and logistic/supply is returning to normal (though it could be like 1918 flu which 2nd wave is even worse)

I used to have A7III before dumping it for eos R, it just fit our c100/c200 much better.

And i have used EOS R for racing track video in 4k too, despite it's high rolling shutter, guess i like some challenge?!

 

Let's not forget VND adapter is the killer for video use.

Yeah EOS r makes sense if you shout canon. If you shoot with an FS7 tho the A73 makes a lot more sense imo 

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, Mokara said:

Like the Nikon DL series? It is a real camera when it is available for purchase. Development announcements don't count. It could arrive in 2023 or maybe never for all we know.

That is a very good example, we were so sure the Nikon DL series was coming! It seemed it would be awesome 

The specs were released, and images of them, etc etc

Then.... nothing, and it got cancelled. Arrrghhhh 😞

So don't ever count on a camera, until you're able to buy it immediately and have it in your hand!

[Django]

Lol if it were Nikon you may have a case in point! DL series was a 1" sensor fixed lens premium compact line that was basically DOA.

I have a really grim feeling for Nikon. They haven't diversified their business at all and D6 was a snooze fest.

No buzz around Z series either. Shame really as I had high hopes for them. 

Absolutely nothing to do with the FF flagship monster spec that is R5. Canon are counting on R5/R6 to shift RF lenses. 

Pandemic may slow down release but it is coming, no doubt about it.

 

 

[baker21]

 Sony will not cannibalize their cine division.  Neither will Canon with R5. The reason canon went 8k is too get ppl to buy into the new RF mount. And we still dont know price or specs.

Canon had an opportunity with a new mount, to go All in. And I think they found out Sony was doing 6k or 8k and decided to go all in to get people back to canon.

I dont need 8k.. I dont think anyone does.

Ita great to see manufacturers pushing canon to Not Hold Back. Canon and Nikon for years did a delicate balancing act of back n forth.

Then Sony mirrorless changed the game.

The S series is Not needed Anymore though. Bc all the new sensors are BSI and great low light. A7iii caught up to S series. You got R for resolution. You got standard A7iv for hybrid.

And sony is developing new FF cine lense line up.

So I see a FX6 coming and FX3 coming..

Both will have same FF sensor.  Color science.

Fx6 - better codecs internal ND FF eye AF pdaf xlrs and sdi outs. Anamorphic ability. No luts internal.

$6k

Fx3 - a7siii replacement- pro series. Same FF sensor no internal ND tho new smaller tech would be awesome.  Instead IBIS. Same color science. Sdi out xlr out.

 

So new pro Sony Fx series launched with new Cine line.  GM glass with mf and AF. And long throws for MF pulls. True cine glass.

Sony launches new codec Sony Raw. Gets around red licensing fees. Like braw does.

Sony Fx9 is a 3:2 sensor. It can do 8k with a firmware update. I can see paid updates down the road for FX9 and offer 16bit Raw out.

 

The canon R5 will Not have..

Internal ND

XLR INPUTS

SDI INPUTS

it's like megapixels. You dont need 8k just like u dont need 61mp when u got 42mp.  But it will push the cine line up and lower prices and make sony bring it's a game. But the R5 is gonna be a prosumer camera.

 

Sony will answer with A7iv

8k - 8bit 30p

6k 30p

4k 60p

New Sony  bRaw? 10bit

61mp sensor

No internal ND

No Sdi

No xlr

Hdmi out

Sony will then offer paid upgrades for 8k fx9 and fx6 and FX3.