Sony A7S III wish list and the not-NAB 2020 no-show today

[noone]

1 hour ago, baker21 said:

 Sony will not cannibalize their cine division.  Neither will Canon with R5. The reason canon went 8k is too get ppl to buy into the new RF mount. And we still dont know price or specs.

Canon had an opportunity with a new mount, to go All in. And I think they found out Sony was doing 6k or 8k and decided to go all in to get people back to canon.

I dont need 8k.. I dont think anyone does.

Ita great to see manufacturers pushing canon to Not Hold Back. Canon and Nikon for years did a delicate balancing act of back n forth.

Then Sony mirrorless changed the game.

The S series is Not needed Anymore though. Bc all the new sensors are BSI and great low light. A7iii caught up to S series. You got R for resolution. You got standard A7iv for hybrid.

And sony is developing new FF cine lense line up.

So I see a FX6 coming and FX3 coming..

Both will have same FF sensor.  Color science.

Fx6 - better codecs internal ND FF eye AF pdaf xlrs and sdi outs. Anamorphic ability. No luts internal.

$6k

Fx3 - a7siii replacement- pro series. Same FF sensor no internal ND tho new smaller tech would be awesome.  Instead IBIS. Same color science. Sdi out xlr out.

 

So new pro Sony Fx series launched with new Cine line.  GM glass with mf and AF. And long throws for MF pulls. True cine glass.

Sony launches new codec Sony Raw. Gets around red licensing fees. Like braw does.

Sony Fx9 is a 3:2 sensor. It can do 8k with a firmware update. I can see paid updates down the road for FX9 and offer 16bit Raw out.

 

The canon R5 will Not have..

Internal ND

XLR INPUTS

SDI INPUTS

it's like megapixels. You dont need 8k just like u dont need 61mp when u got 42mp.  But it will push the cine line up and lower prices and make sony bring it's a game. But the R5 is gonna be a prosumer camera.

 

Sony will answer with A7iv

8k - 8bit 30p

6k 30p

4k 60p

New Sony  bRaw? 10bit

61mp sensor

No internal ND

No Sdi

No xlr

Hdmi out

Sony will then offer paid upgrades for 8k fx9 and fx6 and FX3. 

 

 

 

Mostly agree except there is still a place for the S series for low light over the other A7 cameras even if it is only at very high ISOs that very few use.     The first version A7s is to my mind STILL better than anything for ISO 51200 and up even if only slightly now over the A7iii. (for stills and my video full HD SOOC use anyway).

[Super8]

On 5/6/2020 at 8:37 AM, Django said:

Lol if it were Nikon you may have a case in point! DL series was a 1" sensor fixed lens premium compact line that was basically DOA.

I have a really grim feeling for Nikon. They haven't diversified their business at all and D6 was a snooze fest.

No buzz around Z series either. Shame really as I had high hopes for them. 

Absolutely nothing to do with the FF flagship monster spec that is R5. Canon are counting on R5/R6 to shift RF lenses. 

Pandemic may slow down release but it is coming, no doubt about it.

 

 

Doesn't Nikon have enough revenue from other areas besides consumer cameras and glass?  I actually like the Z6 over the EOS-R in a lot of ways.  Mostly on the video side.

I don't think it would be that difficult for Nikon to match the R5 specs if they wanted.  They were the first to give us video RAW out and 10 bit out. It does seem very uncertain with Nikon so let's hope for the best.

I did hear the R5 would be coming out at the Olympics (20202) but I couldn't get an answer about the new release date.  The issue is with parts supply chain and shipping right now.

[IronFilm]

On 5/7/2020 at 12:37 AM, Django said:

I have a really grim feeling for Nikon. They haven't diversified their business at all

They've got a few other things going on than just DSLRs:
https://www.nikon.com/about/corporate/businesses/

[FranciscoB]

Sony has their raw codec xocn. They use it on the Venice and f5 and f55. 

[Kisaha]

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

They've got a few other things going on than just DSLRs:
https://www.nikon.com/about/corporate/businesses/

Imaging products is 41.8% and they try to reduce it even more.

Eventually cameras will be just a legacy thing for Nikon, and probably for most of us.

[Mokara]

22 hours ago, baker21 said:

 Sony will not cannibalize their cine division.  Neither will Canon with R5. The reason canon went 8k is too get ppl to buy into the new RF mount. And we still dont know price or specs.

 

Professionals will not be giving up their cine cameras. I seriously don't understand why people who think of themselves as "pros" keep pushing this BS. Professional video cameras offer a lot more in functionality and utility beyond specs that no hybrid can offer.  Neither Sony nor Canon are worried about "cannibalization". The only people who think that is a thing are the people who buy hybrids and who use that as a rationale as to why their product does not have the specs a dedicated pro video camera might have. The real reason is that those high end pro video cameras have a lot more hardware and cooling capability included that allows them to achieve what the processor and sensor is capable of. There is no crippling outside of the limits imposed by physics and economics.

The reason Canon went 8K was because their latest processor was capable of it. If your processor can't do 8K then you can't implement 8K. When it can, you do. Not rocket science. Canon have made all these development announcements because they know Panasonic and probably Sony have similar products coming soon, and they want to try to steal their thunder. They can't deliver an actual product just yet, but they want people talking about their cameras, not competitors cameras, and hopefully hold off buying competitor products until such time as the R5 actually arrives, whenever that might be.

[Mokara]

19 hours ago, Super8 said:

Doesn't Nikon have enough revenue from other areas besides consumer cameras and glass?  I actually like the Z6 over the EOS-R in a lot of ways.  Mostly on the video side.

I don't think it would be that difficult for Nikon to match the R5 specs if they wanted.  They were the first to give us video RAW out and 10 bit out. It does seem very uncertain with Nikon so let's hope for the best.

I did hear the R5 would be coming out at the Olympics (20202) but I couldn't get an answer about the new release date.  The issue is with parts supply chain and shipping right now.

Yes it would. Nikon currently don't have a processor that can match the R5 specs and it is unlikely that they have the resources to invest in getting one. 

Hopefully the R5 will come out before 20202.....that is a LONG wait! Lol.

[Super8]

10 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Eventually cameras will be just a legacy thing for Nikon, and probably for most of us.

Why?  We make a living using cameras. Why is that going to change?

[hoodlum]

Some interesting comments from dpreview Sony Interview.

https://www.*BAD_URL*/interviews/2430888908/exclusive-sony-confirms-a7s-ii-successor-this-summer-everything-is-new

Quote

Will the Alpha 7S Mark II be replaced, or has the ‘S’ line been superseded by the a7 III and a7R IV?

We’ve received many requests, especially from professional video content creators, and I can confirm that a successor to the Alpha 7S II will be coming, later this summer. Right now we’re focused on the launch of the new camera, and it will be a complete redesign of the whole system, including the image sensor. Everything is new. We hope it will meet and exceed the expectations and requests of our customers. I’m very confident that our new model will meet their demands.

The ‘S’ originally stood for ‘sensitivity’ but now I think it should stand for ‘supreme’ in terms of image quality, and expression. It comes from having really big pixels. I think that many professionals and high-end users will enjoy the new camera.

What were the major requests from a7S II users?

Mainly things like 4K/60p, 10-bit 4:2:2… really what you’d expect.

We’re seeing Raw video being added to more and more consumer cameras - do you think there’s a need for it?

We’re aware that there is a certain amount of demand for Raw video. As you know, our customers include a lot of professionals, so we’re working hard to be able to deliver Raw data capture to these people.

 

[rawshooter]

Wow, that is a good interview! Sony seem to have their priorities (and philosophy of what makes a good image) right, more so than I would have expected!

[hoodlum]

Reading between the lines it sound like RAW may come at a later date and we still don't know if 4K60p will have a crop.  At least it looks like 10-bit 4:2:2 is coming.

[Andrew Reid]

Can Sony explain why we have had to wait 5 years for it?

Arguably it is now a terrible time to release the camera, due to the virus situation and impact on film shoots, pro photography work and livelihoods.

But I am glad the wait is finally over.

It really does look like an exciting July is coming up with Canon EOS R5 and A7S III. If you've got $4000 burning a hole in your pocket that is!

It is going to be a bit of a dilemma - which to buy - can't really justify both! I'd say probably the A7S III will beat the Canon but let's wait and see.

***

What impact has COVID-19 had on your operations worldwide?

It has definitely had an impact on production, and on procurement of supplies. But we’re working with all of our suppliers to minimize this. We have two manufacturing bases though – China and Thailand, which helps, and most of the supply and logistics issues have now been resolved. Operations at our factories have resumed.

What do you think the effect of the pandemic will be on the photo industry as a whole?

I think there will be very little long-term impact on production and logistics, but demand [for cameras] has been decreasing. The entire world is affected by COVID-19. However there are a lot of positive signs. For example in China, sales at June 18 shopping gala were higher than last year. We experienced strong demand for our premium lines, like the Alpha 7 Mark III and Alpha 7R Mark IV. So China is getting better, but in other areas the situation is different, obviously. Demand in the market is starting to recover in most regions though, and I’m not worried about demand [for our products] in the long-term.

Where do you see Sony’s biggest opportunities in today’s market?

Video is a big opportunity, and full-frame. In China especially, the full-frame mirrorless market is growing. We’re also going to continue to expand our lens lineup to meet the needs of professionals around the world. Those are our biggest opportunities, I think. Full-frame mirrorless and video. Demand for video is now growing in every region of the world.

The Sony ZV-1 (left) is one of a new generation of cameras intended to appeal to vloggers and video content creators, alongside the likes of the Canon PowerShot G7 X (right) and the new Panasonic Lumix G100.

You released the ZV-1 in the middle of the COVID-19 crisis - how important is the vlogging and live-streaming market to Sony?

The content creator market is expanding rapidly, and the ZV1 was purpose-built to meet the needs of video creators at all skill levels. With the impact of COVID-19, a lot of people want to record their experiences with video. Demand for this kind of product is increasing, and with the ZV-1 we had an opportunity to meet this need. A lot of people will also enjoy the ZV-1 as a webcam when connecting it to a PC via USB. We will deliver a new Desktop application in July to enable this.

Quote

I can confirm that a successor to the Alpha 7S II will be coming, later this summer

Will the Alpha 7S Mark II be replaced, or has the ‘S’ line been superseded by the a7 III and a7R IV?

We’ve received many requests, especially from professional video content creators, and I can confirm that a successor to the Alpha 7S II will be coming, later this summer. Right now we’re focused on the launch of the new camera, and it will be a complete redesign of the whole system, including the image sensor. Everything is new. We hope it will meet and exceed the expectations and requests of our customers. I’m very confident that our new model will meet their demands.

The ‘S’ originally stood for ‘sensitivity’ but now I think it should stand for ‘supreme’ in terms of image quality, and expression. It comes from having really big pixels. I think that many professionals and high-end users will enjoy the new camera.

What were the major requests from a7S II users?

Mainly things like 4K/60p, 10-bit 4:2:2… really what you’d expect.

We’re seeing Raw video being added to more and more consumer cameras - do you think there’s a need for it?

We’re aware that there is a certain amount of demand for Raw video. As you know, our customers include a lot of professionals, so we’re working hard to be able to deliver Raw data capture to these people.

What can Sony offer professionals right now that your competitors can’t?

Technology and innovation. These are our strengths, and that’s what we want to deliver. We have strong in-house technologies. We have very advanced technology for both stills and movies. I am proud of the speed, the performance and the richness of the images [from our products] in various conditions. And also portability of the system.

We’re continuing to evolve, to bring the performance of our products to a new level. We’re really not developing products in an attempt to compete with other manufacturers. We want to satisfy consumers, and surprise them - and create a ‘wow!’ reaction.

Can we expect to see Stacked CMOS sensor technology make its way into more Sony cameras in future?

Of course, it’s a unique, cutting-edge technology, and we want to make maximum use of these kinds of technologies.

How will your autofocus technologies evolve in future?

Increased detection speed and accuracy are what’s being demanded by our users, including professionals. And with demand for video booming, autofocus in movie shooting is very important. Right now we’re dedicated to developing autofocus technology further and further.

How will AI influence future products?

Right now we’re further developing Eye-AF, and we’ve added other detection technologies, like Animal Eye-detection. Object recognition using AI is very, very important for the future.

What do you think will be the next major technological leap, in the camera industry?

We’re very invested in AI technology, as I mentioned, but photography and videography need lenses, and the autofocus actuator in lenses is very important. For video, for example, if the actuator doesn’t work, doesn’t move quickly enough, that’s a problem, and if it makes noise, that affects the quality of the footage. So this is something we’re also investing in a lot, as we’re planning for the future.

In ten, twenty, fifty years I expect that computational photography will be doing a lot of things that traditional lenses do now

With computational photography technologies becoming more advanced, do you think that lenses of the future will look like the lenses of today?

I’m very positive about computational photography technologies, but glass has a lot of advantages. In ten, twenty, fifty years I expect that computational photography will be doing a lot of things that traditional lenses do now. But in the near future - five years, say - glass will still be superior.

In some devices, like smartphones or cameras designed to be easy to use, computational photography could be very useful. But if you want to create a masterpiece, or commercial work, real glass is better. And glass can evolve, a lot. For example with our lenses, some of them are very small but the quality is high. There’s a lot of technology inside our lenses. We’ll continue to innovate with our lens technologies.

Do you think in the future that smartphones will start to work more like cameras, or cameras will start to work more like smartphones?

Nobody knows that! But I think it’s good to have options, and choices.

[Video Hummus]

I suspect Sony is going to build their Alpha user base even more after July. It sure sounds like they are focusing heavily on video in this camera and in the future. I hope they don’t deviate too crazily from the hybrid mirrorless form factor too much. If they put S-cinetone in there, 4K60p, 10-bit everywhere, with a decent bit rate. They will have a winner.

S1H just got it’s lunch eaten. But that’s what happens when your sensor tech is made by a company that is owned by your competitor. They get the good stuff first and maybe even exclusively.

I’m of the opinion 8K will be a gimmicky spec sheet feature this go around. I can’t see 8K RAW from the R5 being practical at all if it has the same bitrate ratios as 5,5K RAW on 1DXIII. You’ll need a beast of a computer. Tons of storage. Impractical for smaller creators or shops that don’t have a Mac Pro under the desk, unless they secured something from RED that allows them to use more compression....?

Oh well, I’m going to watch the fireworks. Wait for prices to come down. Maybe see if GH6 comes then eventually probably pick a mount for FF when the dust settles.