Raspberry Pi Releases an Interchangeable-lens Camera Module

[Anaconda_]

After doing some testing, I've recorded some raw rgb video, but have no way of viewing it. Does anyone know what to do with this kind of data? 

Over on the RPi forum they suggest this software, but it's only for viewing. You can't export, so you can't use the files with any other software, which seems a shame. (It's also €30 for mac. I don't want to pay anything if it doesn't help me actually use the footage) 

https://www.offminor.de/

If anyone's interested, there's a few samples below. They're shot with my 25mm cctv lens, which on this sensor is very tele. It's the only c-mount lens I have and until finish my project, it's the only lens I can use... It's a soft lens at the best of times so keep that in mind when viewing.

FYI:

The .rgb file is raw data. I'd love to work out how to view this in a coherent way - or convert it into DNG frames.

The .264 files are straight out of the pi before any wrapping. You can only view these in VLC (as far as I know)

The .mkv files are unadjusted conversions to h.265 - this is only for viewing the files in an NLE

The 4x3 file was a stress test for how large a frame I could make using the basic settings. (1600 x 1200)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/seddezwwymwnh4v/AAAU5es-RCWOXCj1Fpkbz3Dba?dl=0

[kye]

2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

After doing some testing, I've recorded some raw rgb video, but have no way of viewing it. Does anyone know what to do with this kind of data? 

Over on the RPi forum they suggest this software, but it's only for viewing. You can't export, so you can't use the files with any other software, which seems a shame. (It's also €30 for mac. I don't want to pay anything if it doesn't help me actually use the footage) 

https://www.offminor.de/

If anyone's interested, there's a few samples below. They're shot with my 25mm cctv lens, which on this sensor is very tele. It's the only c-mount lens I have and until finish my project, it's the only lens I can use... It's a soft lens at the best of times so keep that in mind when viewing.

FYI:

The .rgb file is raw data. I'd love to work out how to view this in a coherent way - or convert it into DNG frames.

The .264 files are straight out of the pi before any wrapping. You can only view these in VLC (as far as I know)

The .mkv files are unadjusted conversions to h.265 - this is only for viewing the files in an NLE

The 4x3 file was a stress test for how large a frame I could make using the basic settings. (1600 x 1200)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/seddezwwymwnh4v/AAAU5es-RCWOXCj1Fpkbz3Dba?dl=0

Thanks for sharing.

I'm guessing that this thread will be a slow burn as people gradually build the software required to actually use it.  ML was the same, but now the tools for converting the raw files are a joy to use and have heaps of great features.

C-Mount lenses aren't cheap, but there were some absolutely excellent ones made, so if you can get a raw workflow working then just open your wallet and pour the contents into an ebay auction for some old cine glass and then you should be able to get a great image from it.

[Anaconda_]

Thanks Kye, these .rgb files have been around since at least the first Pi camera, so I was hoping there would be something out there. Happy to wait though

As for glass... I'm building this to use D-mount lenses, of which I have a few. For now I don't have a way to mount them though, so all testing is with my funky 25mm, until I get my mount sorted out.

[kye]

21 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Thanks Kye, these .rgb files have been around since at least the first Pi camera, so I was hoping there would be something out there. Happy to wait though

As for glass... I'm building this to use D-mount lenses, of which I have a few. For now I don't have a way to mount them though, so all testing is with my funky 25mm, until I get my mount sorted out.

I've looked into C-Mount to D-Mount adapters and the challenge is that they aren't normally made as D-mount has a shorter flange distance than C-Mount, but having said that I've seen a few solutions, so they are out there.

One of the challenges is that often the control rings on the D-Mount lenses are quite close to the body of the camera, which if the lens is recessed into a C-Mount mount then it makes the lenses all the more difficult to adjust and work with, although still possible for slower shooting situations.

[Anaconda_]

Yeah I read that. Only good for macro stuff really. 
 

I’m talking the mount off my sensor though. Instead of mounting the lens on the sensor, I’m mounting the sensor on the lens of that make sense?

[BTM_Pix]

13 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I’m talking the mount off my sensor though. Instead of mounting the lens on the sensor, I’m mounting the sensor on the lens of that make sense?

It does to me and would of course involve plenty of Araldite.

And the complete destruction of both items.

[BTM_Pix]

If you have access to a 3D printer then this might be useful.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2757282

Its a D mount to C mount adapter so with some editing it can be the basis of a mounting solution where you would keep the D mount and then modify the other end to accomodate the sensor.

[no_connection]

The pi camera have a CS-mount tho, not a C-mount? The camera only have c-mount with adapter.

Flange distance should be close enough to just make a thread adapter to go onto the d-mount lens and maybe just sand back the camera side 0.236mm (if the lens touches it ofc, might not)
Or just mount the d-mount adapter permanently to the camera side.

d-mount is 12.29mm and cs-mount is 12.526mm.

[BTM_Pix]

The new HQ camera is natively C mount with CS adapter included AFAIK

[kye]

1 hour ago, no_connection said:

d-mount is 12.29mm and cs-mount is 12.526mm.

Yes, the difference isn't too much, which should be doable, as long as you don't do it however @BTM_Pix is thinking about that leads to total destruction!

I tried to make an adapter by buying a cheap low profile plastic C-Mount body cap and cutting a D-Mount into it then heating it up and bending it by pushing on the D-Mount to adjust for the smaller flange distance.  IIRC I stuffed up the D-Mount so it didn't work as a mount, but I think the idea is sound.

[Anaconda_]

All good ideas. For my project, I'm mounting the camera and a Pi inside a Bolex. Essentially, the sensor will be more or less where the film would run past the lens.There will be a small difference to ensure infinity focus, but the theory is still the same. the 1m marking on the lens will still focus to 1m away.

Mounting it this way means I can keep the turret system, as the lenses screw into the body, not onto the sensor. It'll work much better for maintaining the whole look and feel of shooting on 8mm film. Of course, the files won't act or look like film, but using the camera will feel similar, and onlookers will think I'm really artistic.

The only difference, in usable terms, is the winder on the side, and the frame rate selector won't do anything. Everything else will work as it once did with film.

This is currently not working. I put the pi and switches inside the case to see how much room I have to play with. To give you an idea, I could probably put 2 more Pis in there. That said, this does not yet have the sensor or a battery in the case.

Before that though, I need to find time to mount the sensor and have it lined up. The weather here is too nice to be tinkering with that, but hope to have it done in the next few weeks. Once the sensor is in, it's then a case of securely mounting the pi, battery, LEDs and switches.

(the switches in the gif are only there for testing. I have smaller, more subtle ones that I'll mount onto the camera. From the outside I want it to look as original as possible.)

[no_connection]

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The new HQ camera is natively C mount with CS adapter included AFAIK

It's impossible to use CS lenses on C-mount, so it kinda have to be the other way around.

[BTM_Pix]

25 minutes ago, no_connection said:

It's impossible to use CS lenses on C-mount, so it kinda have to be the other way around.

Yep, I've misread the product page like a dickhead !

Apologies.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-high-quality-camera/

[no_connection]

I would not say that, it's not super clear it's a cs mount that comes with a cs to c adapter. And adding to that most ppl say it's c-mount.

[kye]

23 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

All good ideas. For my project, I'm mounting the camera and a Pi inside a Bolex. Essentially, the sensor will be more or less where the film would run past the lens.There will be a small difference to ensure infinity focus, but the theory is still the same. the 1m marking on the lens will still focus to 1m away.

Mounting it this way means I can keep the turret system, as the lenses screw into the body, not onto the sensor. It'll work much better for maintaining the whole look and feel of shooting on 8mm film. Of course, the files won't act or look like film, but using the camera will feel similar, and onlookers will think I'm really artistic.

The only difference, in usable terms, is the winder on the side, and the frame rate selector won't do anything. Everything else will work as it once did with film.

This is currently not working. I put the pi and switches inside the case to see how much room I have to play with. To give you an idea, I could probably put 2 more Pis in there. That said, this does not yet have the sensor or a battery in the case.

Before that though, I need to find time to mount the sensor and have it lined up. The weather here is too nice to be tinkering with that, but hope to have it done in the next few weeks. Once the sensor is in, it's then a case of securely mounting the pi, battery, LEDs and switches.

(the switches in the gif are only there for testing. I have smaller, more subtle ones that I'll mount onto the camera. From the outside I want it to look as original as possible.)

That is super cool!!

I'm really looking forward to seeing you get this up and running

It makes sense now why you said you'd be mounting the sensor onto the lens.  In this sense, maybe your mounting method could be to mount the mount to an adjustable setup, so you can easily and accurately adjust the sensor to the right flange distance.  Ie, if you put a couple of nuts on the opposite side of the board to the sensor, then had the thing mount onto some bolts, then by rotating either the nuts or the bolts (depending on how you built it) then you could screw the sensor closer or further away to lock it in.  This could be a relatively easy way to have a secure mount that is easy to get exact infinity focus on.

Do you know how good the RAW signal is?  If it's a half-decent sensor and the RAW is RAW then it should be pretty close to the RAW from any other camera with a half-decent sensor.

[Anaconda_]

Thanks @kye - I'm going to mount the sensor with bolts and springs. Essentially your idea, but the springs will push the sensor away from the lens and a nut will push it towards the lens. Once I get the right distance, I'll use some glue to stop the sensor moving if the springs ever get loose or whatever. The whole front panel where the turret is mounted comes off the camera body, so to get it into position shouldn't be too hard with some time, a clamp and some careful positioning. The most difficult part will be positioning the sensor so it's centred in the image circle. From there is a case of tightening or loosening the nuts.

As for raw - I can technically record raw video, but I have no way to view it for now. For the time being I'm going to just shoot h264, but the beauty of the Pi is you can change the settings really easily. Over SSH from my phone it's possible to edit and load different scripts, so when the raw thing becomes more developed and supported, I can switch. 

[rawshooter]

Warming up this thread again:

There is now an Open Source Python script that converts the Raspberry Pi HQ cam's raw pictures into DNG: 
https://github.com/schoolpost/PyDNG

...and a new variant of the Raspberry Pi has 8GB RAM and thus should be able to store about 300 16bit RAW 5K frames in memory: 
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/8gb-raspberry-pi-4-on-sale-now-at-75/

Is anyone aware of commercial or DIY projects to pair the Raspi, the HQ cam module, memory cards and a USB powerbank into something resembling a camera?

And did anyone try to make raw video recordings with this yet?

[Anaconda_]

24 minutes ago, rawshooter said:

Is anyone aware of commercial or DIY projects to pair the Raspi, the HQ cam module, memory cards and a USB powerbank into something resembling a camera?

Thanks for the info! In my experience, USB powerbanks trigger a warning on the Pi with a camera attached, they only just give it enough juice, unless you use a big powerbank, but that defeats the point. Instead you can get cheap LiPo connectors that solder onto the Pi and make the whole setup smaller.

My camera is fully functional, but it's currently not assembled into anything usable, since my buddy who was going to help with sensor placement is away for a few weeks. Once it's all up and running for real, I'll happily share all my codes etc. For now its h264 only, but I'm hoping that can change at some point. 

Recording raw on this is a pain in the ass and I don't have much knowledge to get it all together. I can record a raw rgb or yuv stream, but there's no way to play it back. I've tried all the suggestions, and even tried to view individual frames, but I'm just seeing static. In another post, I've shared a dropbox link to some video files - both h264 and the raw recordings. Feel free to have a look and try to make some sense of it.

There is a program called raspiraw but it's extremely un-user friendly and the person who made it seems to be refusing to help anyone get a handle on how to use it.

My system is:

4gb Rpi - Power switch - Power LED - Rec switch - Rec LED - LiPo battery connector & charger - 1inch Monochrom OLED screen (which is currently misbehaving, but I'm working on it) 

 

[rawshooter]

On 5/26/2020 at 10:46 PM, Anaconda_ said:

The .rgb file is raw data. I'd love to work out how to view this in a coherent way - or convert it into DNG frames.

[...]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/seddezwwymwnh4v/AAAU5es-RCWOXCj1Fpkbz3Dba?dl=0

I'm wondering - did you shoot multiple frames/raw video, or just a single frame?

PyDNG is able to extract a single DNG from your files (whether it's the .yuv or.rgb files), which looks like this when converted to JPEG in a Raw Converter (I used RawTherapee, with white balance correction and slight noise filtering):

[Anaconda_]

30 minutes ago, rawshooter said:

I'm wondering - did you shoot multiple frames/raw video, or just a single frame?

It's multiple. I have found a viewer for it and can see the different frames, but there's no way to export it at all from the viewer. For now, I've stopped the quest for raw as finishing the physical build seems more important - though, that's also on hold for now too.