I really like the look of 360 degree shutter. Anyone else?

[Matt James Smith ?]

☝️

[kye]

Can't remember who but I do recall someone on here saying that they liked to shoot with SS longer than 180 because it kind of compensated for the limitations of DSLR / MILC cameras in other ways, sort of balancing them out to get something cinematic.

Conversely, films like Saving Private Ryan have used shorter SS than 180 to give the opposite effect: https://cinemashock.org/2012/07/30/45-degree-shutter-in-saving-private-ryan/

180 is a 'rule' in the sense that the rule of thirds is a rule - they're great to learn when you're new because they help you to avoid doing stupid things, but once you've passed a certain maturity in craft you can use them or break them depending on the situation....

[andrgl]

There's a few big budget movies that have used a 360° shutter, Public Enemies comes to mind:

 

[fuzzynormal]

I employed it with a short doc I made a handful of years back and really became enamored with how it looked--as it does look less like video.  Used in my latest doc too.

However, I don't usually employ it with corporate jobs.

[Andrew Reid]

I can see why it works well for the tommy guns

I find it useful in low light - 1/25 means you can use a lower ISO

All depends on the shot how it's going to turn out. Quick handheld camera movement looks a bit too blurry.

180 shutter is also too slow for some things... it all depends. Usually it's perfect.

I am going to try shooting everything without NDs and using my own shutter speed in post, with the motion blur in Resolve Studio 16 working so well just now... It gives you ability to choose the look in post rather than have motion blur baked into the source material!

[tweak]

10 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I am going to try shooting everything without NDs and using my own shutter speed in post, with the motion blur in Resolve Studio 16 working so well just now... It gives you ability to choose the look in post rather than have motion blur baked into the source material!

Let me know how that goes, sounds interesting, especially if shooting some high frame rate stuff that you also want to slo-mo.

[Andrew Reid]

Could be useful for 4K/60p as well, for a more natural motion blur in slow-mo shots. 180 deg shutter is 1/120 for 60p, which eliminates most of the nice 24p look.

[Emanuel]

Indeed : )

And if Spielberg's Saving Private Ryan is typically the finest example for high shutter speed creative use from Janusz Kaminski's tip, Mel Gibson's Apocalypto (cinematographed by the Aussie Dean Semler) is the opposite for a 360 degree shutter or open shutter, that is, double motion blur when a video smear look ends as purpose. Just for our matter of taste on the basis of need, function and alike. Not everyone sees it in the same way, no matter what. We can't all share the same yellow colour in point of fact.

a7RII release, as for instance, came along its slower shutter speed capability in video mode beyond the 360º shutter as a very special hybrid acquisition experiment tool as you wish (I am used to shoot both video and stills with my Blackmagic Pocket series in 2020).

Here's Dan Chung's sample:

https://indietips.com/shutter-speed-and-shutter-angle-explained/

[Video Hummus]

I’ve often shot 4K60p with 360 degree shutter for a 30p timeline. Works well for when you want the ability to go into half speed in post and you’re not shooting quick pans or fast objects. Looks terrible for 24p timelines of course.

A added benefit of shooting a faster shutter and then adding motion blur in post is things like warp stabilizer often do a better job stabilizing.

You could also use gyro based stabilization at fast shutter speeds and then add back the motion blur like SteadXP product.

Would like to see a camera manufacture use that type system and work to integrate a open gyro data standard that NLE’s can use for advanced stabilization.

Sony seems to be going that direction for their FX cine cameras.

[Asowder]

Emanuel mentioned his a7iii has the ability in video mode of a shutter of 360, how? I cannot get my a7iii’s shutter past 1/4 in auto slow shutter, and have contacted Sony regarding without any assistance.

would appreciate any assistance as Am desirous of being able to achieve the look of a 360 shutters smoothness of flowing motion. Thanks!

[Protegit]

On 4/18/2021 at 2:02 AM, Asowder said:

Emanuel mentioned his a7iii has the ability in video mode of a shutter of 360, how? I cannot get my a7iii’s shutter past 1/4 in auto slow shutter, and have contacted Sony regarding without any assistance.

would appreciate any assistance as Am desirous of being able to achieve the look of a 360 shutters smoothness of flowing motion. Thanks!

SS - Shutter Speed can be described either as an angle (shutter angle), or as a length of time in seconds (exposure time). Everyone here is talking about shutter ANGLEs, not exposure times (in seconds). You are referring to shutter speed described at exposure time in seconds. As a videographer, you can not confuse these to terms. So what is the difference between those two? Well, shutter speed as expressed by exposure time is easy. Its just the time the camera lets light into the sensor (thats an oversimplificaiton, but you get the point). For example, with 1/50s shutter speed, the sensor gathers light for 20 milliseconds (or 1/50 of a second). Easy. but with shutter angle its not that easy, beacuse shutter angle is also tied to framerate. If youre recording in 30 FPS for example, then you might have been told to use the "180 degree rule" and double the frame rate to get the inversion of the value you should set you exposure time to. Which would be 1/60s (because 30*2=60) But why is 1/60s of exposure time equal to 180 degrees of shutter angle? Imagine a circle. And inside that circle is an angle. If that angle is equal to 360 degrees, the circle if full. full of what? Full of light. If the angle equals to 180 degrees, the circle is half-full. 90 degrees - quarter full, etc. Your angle can not be fuller than 360 degrees. So if you have your framerate of 30 FPS, then one frame takes aobut 33.3 milliseconds. That is also the maximum time duration you can let light through into the sensor. If you want more time, you have to decrease the framerate. So when shooting at 30 FPS you cannot have shutter speed greater than 360 degrees or 1/30 of a second (33.3 milliseconds). Cinematic film is in 24 FPS, so the longest exposure time you can get is 1/24 of a second or again, 360 degrees. Do you see why we use both exposure times and shutter angles? Shutter angles are not related to framerate, where as shutter speed is. So your camera - the a7iii CAN shoot with a 360 shutter angle. You just have to set your shutter speed accordingly. For 24 FPS thats 1/24s, for 25 FPS thats 1/25s, for 30 FPS thats 1/30s, for 60 FPS thats 1/60s. All these pairs of values represent a 360 shutter angle. So you might ask yourself why can you go as low as 1/4s with your sony a7iii? Watch the framerate closely, as you lenghten your exposure time. The more you get closer to 1/4s the more frames you lose. At 1/4s youre essentially recording at 4 FPS!! And you can see that with naked eye. Why is that? Because the shutter angle can not be larger than 360 degrees! at 4 FPS the equvalent of a 360 shutter angle is 1/4 of a second shutter speed. I hope you understand now the difference between shutter angle and exposure time.