S1/Z6/XT4 - Best all-rounder for video including documentary work?

[noone]

11 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Clear zoom is useful for C-mount lenses on the Sony A7 series.

Maintains a nice 4K image even in 2x crop mode.

However for further than that you may as well crop in post. You start losing detail in-camera and in-post, so best to leave it as a last resort editing choice, rather than bake the longer shot into your footage.

I think there is very little loss just using clear zoom especially if using HD rather than 4k (though have never used it with 4k).     Above 2x and regular digital zoom it does show.     It also comes in handy with Sony APSC lenses used FF and even MFT lenses on Sony (though MFT to E adapters are thin sharp metal rings and no use with electronic lenses).       If you start with a really good lens, the end result at 2x clear zoom will still be better than if you used a lesser lens (IE a really good 50mm lens with 2x  would be better than a crappy 100mm lens).       I use it for stills with a 55 1.8 and it (almost) makes me no longer want another 100mm AF lens.      Works great with fast primes and tilt  shift too.

I just wish it worked for RAW.

[noone]

40 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Clear zoom is useful for C-mount lenses on the Sony A7 series.

Maintains a nice 4K image even in 2x crop mode.

However for further than that you may as well crop in post. You start losing detail in-camera and in-post, so best to leave it as a last resort editing choice, rather than bake the longer shot into your footage.

Andrew,    I just had a quick look at a couple of lenses.

I recently got a cheap near mint ancient Tokina 60-120 2.8 manual focus lens.     Now my all time favourite zoom lens and will be fantastic for portraits if I am not rushed I think.

I just tried it with 60mm 2.8 and 2x clear zoom VS 120 2.8 and I think I actually prefer the 60 with 2x.    I would use it mostly AT 120mm optically for portraits.

I really have to look at this more though.

No more from me here as I don't want to hijack the thread any more.

 

[MrSMW]

17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The punch in option is about 2x crop on the X-T4, so that is further into your prime than 1.5x crop on A7S II.

If you have a 35mm wide angle lens on the A7S II you get 50mm in crop mode.

On the X-T4 due to the smaller sensor compared to full frame, you'd need a wider lens than 35mm to get the same equiv. focal length to full frame.

I.e. you'd need 24mm * 1.5x = 35mm

The 2x crop mode this 24mm lens would become a 48mm FOV.

So it's the same situation as the A7S II just different choice of lens.

(Or the same choice of lens if you use a Speed Booster)

Confused yet?

Yes...slightly...

Just to confirm, the XT4 has the ability to 'punch in' ie, 'zoom in' whilst recording to check focus but does not actually have the ability to record a tighter crop?

I believe certain FF cameras such as Nikon can by selecting DX crop for video recording and with the Panasonic S1 you can select an APSC equivalent crop.

But Fuji APSC body cameras not? At least my XT3 does not have this facility but applies a default 1.18 crop when shooting 4k 60p and the XT4 has the same or 1.29 if DIS engaged (or crop can be set manually at all times).

Why would anyone do the latter some might ask?

Well actually I prefer a tighter crop and like to shoot FF equiv around 35-85mm which is why I use  the lens options I have, ie, the Sigma 18-35 and Tamron 45mm.

[Django]

Yeah I definitely wasn't aware of a 2x crop mode on the XT4? can someone confirm this?

[James_From_Raglan]

So the XT4 doesn't have an crop mode in the sense of using a smaller portion of the sensor (equivalent to the a7sii's "APS-C mode") in order to punch in and get more range from lenses?

And does anyone know if the S1 has this function? I assume it does since it's full frame but I can't seem to find a clear answer anywhere.

[androidlad]

2 minutes ago, James_From_Raglan said:

So the XT4 doesn't have an crop mode in the sense of using a smaller portion of the sensor (equivalent to the a7sii's "APS-C mode") in order to punch in and get more range from lenses?

And does anyone know if the S1 has this function? I assume it does since it's full frame but I can't seem to find a clear answer anywhere.

XT4 has a Sports Finder mode with 1.25x crop for stills, and a 1.29x crop option for 4K video.

[Geoff_L]

39 minutes ago, James_From_Raglan said:

So the XT4 doesn't have an crop mode in the sense of using a smaller portion of the sensor (equivalent to the a7sii's "APS-C mode") in order to punch in and get more range from lenses?

And does anyone know if the S1 has this function? I assume it does since it's full frame but I can't seem to find a clear answer anywhere.

Crop mode "apsc" on S1, and "ex.teleconverter" like in the gh5, to crop even further, but only in 1080.
I use apsc crop a lot for wildlife. Ex.teleconv is great, with a fixed nd filter or no filter. With vari nd, even a very good one, quality is not very good as it magnifies the quality degradation (I speak for my use with a canon 100-400 ii and sometimes TC 1.4x iii).

[MrSMW]

I think an optical zoom lens is always going to beat an in camera digital crop.

[noone]

7 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I think an optical zoom lens is always going to beat an in camera digital crop.

IF all lenses were equal, it would.     A really good prime used with in camera digital crop is going to be better than most old optical zooms with the crop methods of some companies now and many optical zooms are better at the short end so it depends how MUCH better.    

Also depends on how much of a digital crop you use.

Another topic for the lens forum later I think to try a few experiments.

[MrSMW]

Well yes, with that caveat I’d agree but in my head was thinking APSC sensor 2x crop ie, quarter the resolution compared with any half-decent lens at twice the focal length such as Sigma 18-35 at 35 compared with 18.

I can’t see a 1/4 resolution in camera crop getting even close!

[Mark Romero 2]

2 hours ago, James_From_Raglan said:

So the XT4 doesn't have an crop mode in the sense of using a smaller portion of the sensor (equivalent to the a7sii's "APS-C mode") in order to punch in and get more range from lenses?

And does anyone know if the S1 has this function? I assume it does since it's full frame but I can't seem to find a clear answer anywhere.

The S1 has aps-c crop mode and it also has a pixel-by-pixel mode for 1080p. (It has it for 4K as well, IIRC, but I don't think it make a significant difference over using the aps-c crop).

I haven't used manual focus lenses a lot on the Panasonic S1, but in my limited experience with them, they are a joy to use. The IBIS of the S1 is pretty amazing, the EVF is wonderful, and the rear screen is pretty good (as far as rear screens go).