The New Panasonic G100 “vlogging” Camera to launch June 24th

[DAEMANO]

1 minute ago, SteveV4D said:

Again  the advantage you speak of is MFT and its lenses, not unique to this camera.  Its great that you think its a good purchase and will add value to your gear.  That doesn't take away from the fact that the G100 suffers from a lack of features that would make the camera more successful if implemented.  

Why add vlog, which is a professional profile, yet deny IBIS, more useful than vlog, given theb8 bit codec.  Why even bother with 4K at all, if you have to cripple it so much because you don't have IBIS.  Why give a new and improved mic system, if you've screwed up other aspects of video recording.  

There are a tonne of inconsistencies with this camera.  Making it a mess of features.

The GH5s is Panasonic's most video centric camera. It also doesn't have IBIS. Not saying vloggers wouldn't have loved better IBIS, but if the choice FOR ME is IBIS or a viewfinder in a super compact camera, I'm taking the viewfinder. I understand that is not a majority opinion.

[thebrothersthre3]

Why is the GH5S more video centric than the S1H

[no_connection]

Have anyone pointed a camera and filmed the EVF?

[noone]

39 minutes ago, DAEMANO said:

We all know Sony has makes some absolutely tiny FF cameras and leads in this department (even if those bodies are ergonomically challenged.)

We all also know that crop sensor ILCs size advantage has always been at the telephoto end. My 100-300 (200-600mm FOV equivalent) lens weighs 520g and is 74mm x 126mm. I can comfortably carry and shoot with this all day. Up one side of a mountain and down the back. Please post the dimensions of your FF 200-600mm telephoto lens.

Thanks. 

MY 24-720 Equivalent weighs 687 g WITH camera attached (Fuji superzoom), why?     NOT what I would compare either mine or yours and both not relevant here.

MY point was the G100 is nothing like a successor to the GM1 and GM5 since it is comparatively much larger and heavier (and since Panasonic themselves said it wasn't), what is YOUR point?

Oh and still waiting for those bitrates for the G100 too thanks! 

 

It is fine to say YOU like it and sure you are just as entitled as anyone else to your opinion but that does not mean that all those panning the camera are wrong does it?

It is SOLD as a vlogging camera and it largely fails for the majority of people commenting, it is NOT a successor to the GM1 and 5 for many people either (and not for Panasonic).

It has a couple of interesting features but it otherwise appears to me as an entry level camera made from the spare parts bin...some will like and want it but it is not what it is sold as.

[DAEMANO]

21 minutes ago, noone said:

MY 24-720 Equivalent weighs 687 g WITH camera attached (Fuji superzoom), why?     NOT what I would compare either mine or yours and both not relevant here.

MY point was the G100 is nothing like a successor to the GM1 and GM5 since it is comparatively much larger and heavier (and since Panasonic themselves said it wasn't), what is YOUR point?

Oh and still waiting for those bitrates for the G100 too thanks! 

 

It is fine to say YOU like it and sure you are just as entitled as anyone else to your opinion but that does not mean that all those panning the camera are wrong does it?

It is SOLD as a vlogging camera and it largely fails for the majority of people commenting, it is NOT a successor to the GM1 and 5 for many people either (and not for Panasonic).

It has a couple of interesting features but it otherwise appears to me as an entry level camera made from the spare parts bin...some will like and want it but it is not what it is sold as.

Wow your approach is disingenuous (pivoting from FF to 1" superzoom to try and prove a point) and unnecessarily argumentative. Please step away from the internet for a while and consider if you're trying to accomplish a discussion, debate or a debasing. I know better than to engage in this further.

[noone]

9 minutes ago, DAEMANO said:

Wow your approach is disingenuous (pivoting from FF to 1" superzoom to try and prove a point) and unnecessarily argumentative. Please step away from the internet for a while and consider if you're trying to accomplish a discussion, debate or a debasing. I know better than to engage in this further.

LOL Nah, you are the one who made a claim you can not back up.

I made no such claim (just pointing out size and weight differences between cameras)...geez if you like i could just add your M43 lens to my FF camera via an adapter and use clear zoom and digital zoom....The IQ would not be great but it is possible.

What did I say as fact that was incorrect?   IE not opinion....We can disagree on opinions but facts? 

Yes or no, is the G100 comparatively a fair bit bigger and heavier than the GM1 and GM5?

Yes or no, did Panasonic themselves say it is not a successor to any camera?

No matter, you buy the camera, i will not, how about we leave it at that (sure would like that reply on bitrates though).

[Andrew Reid]

Let's take it just as a stills camera... A GM6 if you like.

Still a failure.

What does it do as a stills camera that is particularly unique on the market? Aside from the fact it's $750?

For that priced use you can get a Fuji X-H1!!!!!!!

[SteveV4D]

1 hour ago, DAEMANO said:

The GH5s is Panasonic's most video centric camera. It also doesn't have IBIS. Not saying vloggers wouldn't have loved better IBIS, but if the choice FOR ME is IBIS or a viewfinder in a super compact camera, I'm taking the viewfinder. I understand that is not a majority opinion.

The GH5s is a compliment to the GH5 which does have IBIS.  It is designed for professional situations where IBIS can be a hindrance or is unneeded.  I personally use my GH5s on a gimbal.  I find it unlikely anyone professional will touch the G100 to bother to rig it in such a way.

And its not a choice of evf or IBIS.  Oddly enough, you can have both.  Some may prefer IBIS.  In which case, Panasonic have lost potential sales.

[DAEMANO]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Let's take it just as a stills camera... A GM6 if you like.

Still a failure.

What does it do as a stills camera that is particularly unique on the market? Aside from the fact it's $750?

For that priced use you can get a Fuji X-H1!!!!!!!

Disagree. The stills on this tiny ILC are looking GREAT so far.

Imaging Resource (not DP review this time) has their initial G100 "Comparometer" images up, and as expected, they look just about every bit as good as the G9 which, for me, is a win. https://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM Sample shots are up too,  which also are very nice https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-g100/panasonic-g100GALLERY.HTM  For me, the fact that I can take this camera virtually anywhere (unlike my larger G9, and even GX85), and that can produce similar results while using the same lens system is significant and not a failure.

I don't feel it's productive to compare launch pricing on new cameras with used pricing on older cameras. Discussion about all new products would be moot if we simply disregarded those releases by comparing them to older cameras that were a class above and initially double the price. Buying used bodies is hit or miss, especially when those cameras have deprecated to half their original cost (like the X-H1 has done in 2.5 years.) We all know the G100 will also come down in price (both used and new,) that doesn't really further this conversation. 

Lastly, whether or not you deem something a failure without openly considering dissenting opinions and other person's use cases is also up to you. In my life, those times have been the most productive when I stepped outside of myself, my opinion and carefully consider why the opposing opinion exists.  I get what you and some others have said. There is little innovation here and fewer features than Panasonic's marketing team seemed to promise. What I'm saying is that the packaging and stills performance on the G100 is really good for certain photographers (like myself) and that viewpoint also matters. The fact that I don't agree with you and a handful of users in this thread doesn't seem to anger and affect me the way has some here. That's ok, I don't need to change that either. When searching the net for opinions about this release, I came across this forum, saw that many of the opinions were negative and added my positive opinion to it. I learned a lot about yours and others opinions in this thread and also a lot about the board itself. I'll poke around and learn more, but I honestly don't care to be badgered at instead of discussed with (especially by a mod.) There's a lot more civil and productive conversation to be had in other places.

[SteveV4D]

10 minutes ago, DAEMANO said:

 What I'm saying is that the packaging and stills performance on the G100 is really good for certain photographers (like myself) and that viewpoint also matters. 

Of course it matters, and were this a Photography dedicated forum, you may well find more opinions agreeing with you.  However, this camera is being looked at more from a video point of view, as per the forum  Which as Panasonic are noted for their video specs, and have marketed this as a camera for vloggers is quite fair.  

It remains to see if the G100 succeeds as a Photographic camera.  However as a video tool, its lack of features essential to vlogging makes it an automatic failure from those of us who shoot video and sort of know a 🍋  when we see one.

I appreciate that you see positives in this camera, but as most of your arguments supporting it apply just about to any MFT camera, its hard to understand what your point actually is as to why you feel this camera will be a success.  Aside that it fits your camera bag a bit better than your other cameras.  Its a shame Panasonic didn't choose to market the camera this way rather than advertise mediocre video specs as useful to vloggers.

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

• It captures Canon users who can't afford the EOS RP - the mini "APS-C EOS RP" for cheap

They'll feel like the fool when they try to "upgrade" to the EOS RP and discover none of their lenses work on the EOS RP! Not even in crop mode. 

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, DAEMANO said:

We all also know that crop sensor ILCs size advantage has always been at the telephoto end. My 100-300 (200-600mm FOV equivalent) lens weighs 520g and is 74mm x 126mm. I can comfortably carry and shoot with this all day. Up one side of a mountain and down the back. Please post the dimensions of your FF 200-600mm telephoto lens.

No, it is not just on the telephoto end.
For instance one of my favorite lenses is a SLR Magic 8mm f4, and no way a FF lens could be as small as that teeny tiny lens! 
This is great for vlogging/travel, or if you want to use a MFT camera as a higher end replacement for a GoPro in a dynamic shot. 
 

[newfoundmass]

Daemono, do you work for Panasonic? It's just weird that you've predominantly post just to defend this camera... 

[noone]

37 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

No, it is not just on the telephoto end.
For instance one of my favorite lenses is a SLR Magic 8mm f4, and no way a FF lens could be as small as that teeny tiny lens! 
This is great for vlogging/travel, or if you want to use a MFT camera as a higher end replacement for a GoPro in a dynamic shot. 
 

While I actually do agree generally, the Oly bodycap lenses are smaller and lighter and I actually PREFERRED my 15mm  Oly lens on my A7s with a little clearzoom to using it on my GX7 (not a great IQ lens but a lot of fun on both).

Any small M43 lens CAN fit on to A7 cameras and will have vignetting which can be gotten rid of with clearzoom.

The issue is it is not great with lenses with electronic aperture control  but those that do have mechanical aperture should work ok.

[IronFilm]

18 hours ago, DAEMANO said:

Like I mentioned before, the GF series (their smallest ILC), less capable but nearly as expensive as this are Panasonic's biggest selling line in Japan.

Worldwide. the GM5, Panasonic's smallest ILC ever (introduced in 2014) are so beloved, they sell for $500 used and get snatched off of Ebay almost immediately. 

What you choose to do with this information is up top you. I really don't care.  

 

I still want a GM5 myself! And I'd get one if only its price wasn't so high on eBay. But it is high exactly because so many people still want a GM5, even in 2020. 
 

[epixx]

On 6/30/2020 at 4:22 AM, DAEMANO said:

Disagree. The stills on this tiny ILC are looking GREAT so far.

Imaging Resource (not DP review this time) has their initial G100 "Comparometer" images up, and as expected, they look just about every bit as good as the G9 which, for me, is a win. https://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM Sample shots are up too,  which also are very nice https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-g100/panasonic-g100GALLERY.HTM  For me, the fact that I can take this camera virtually anywhere (unlike my larger G9, and even GX85), and that can produce similar results while using the same lens system is significant and not a failure.

I don't feel it's productive to compare launch pricing on new cameras with used pricing on older cameras. Discussion about all new products would be moot if we simply disregarded those releases by comparing them to older cameras that were a class above and initially double the price. Buying used bodies is hit or miss, especially when those cameras have deprecated to half their original cost (like the X-H1 has done in 2.5 years.) We all know the G100 will also come down in price (both used and new,) that doesn't really further this conversation. 

Lastly, whether or not you deem something a failure without openly considering dissenting opinions and other person's use cases is also up to you. In my life, those times have been the most productive when I stepped outside of myself, my opinion and carefully consider why the opposing opinion exists.  I get what you and some others have said. There is little innovation here and fewer features than Panasonic's marketing team seemed to promise. What I'm saying is that the packaging and stills performance on the G100 is really good for certain photographers (like myself) and that viewpoint also matters. The fact that I don't agree with you and a handful of users in this thread doesn't seem to anger and affect me the way has some here. That's ok, I don't need to change that either. When searching the net for opinions about this release, I came across this forum, saw that many of the opinions were negative and added my positive opinion to it. I learned a lot about yours and others opinions in this thread and also a lot about the board itself. I'll poke around and learn more, but I honestly don't care to be badgered at instead of discussed with (especially by a mod.) There's a lot more civil and productive conversation to be had in other places.

I agree with this, and I don't understand the heated discussions around this camera. A G100 will probably replace my dying GM5 for when I need a compact camera for video and stills. The GM5 was more expensive than the G100 is, and smaller, but:

- The G100 has a much better viewfinder, much better fully articulated LCD, it offers mic input and a better sound system alltogether, better image quality, much better video quality and as opposed to the GM5 it actually has some kind of image stabilisation for video (EIS).

- Compared to the GX9, image and video is probably more or less the same, the GX9 offers IBIS but has a mediocre viewfinder and LCD, the last one only flipping up and down, and no mic input.

The problem with this camera is the marketing. If they had marketed it as a compact camera with an optional vlogging accessory, the response would probably have been much better. No other camera at this size and price offers a better viewfinder/LCD combo, and for many , that is very important. On a camera this size, the viewfinder and the shutter release are mostly what I need. As for other brands, except Olympus, they won't mount my MFT lenses.

As for the price, cameras aren't necessarily cheap because they are small. The Pen-F is a good example.

[SteveV4D]

51 minutes ago, epixx said:

I agree with this, and I don't understand the heated discussions around this camera. 

I think you answered that when you spoke of marketing.  If you're gonna advertise something as a vlogger camera, don't mess with the video features.  A company that has yet to master decent AF probably has no business doing a vlogging camera in the first place.  Surely the most needed of features for vloggers.  And whilst 4K isn't a Full requirement for vlogging, crippling it makes little sense.  IBIS, a very useful feature for vlogging, not here.  Even though a camera like the GX85 has it.  Yet it does have vlog, even though its effectiveness as a profile is diminished by the 8 bit codec.  It's this inconsistent approach to features for video that naturally annoys video users here, especially given Panasonic's track record for video.

Taken as a Photo camera on its own, I'm sure it is a worthy addition for some users, though not for others, even those looking for a camera in this price bracket.  The lack of water resistance to the camera for example is a shame.  It could have been more and still held the same price in my opinion.  

[Mustafa Dogan]

On 7/3/2020 at 8:55 AM, epixx said:

I agree with this, and I don't understand the heated discussions around this camera. A G100 will probably replace my dying GM5 for when I need a compact camera for video and stills. The GM5 was more expensive than the G100 is, and smaller, but:

- The G100 has a much better viewfinder, much better fully articulated LCD, it offers mic input and a better sound system alltogether, better image quality, much better video quality and as opposed to the GM5 it actually has some kind of image stabilisation for video (EIS).

- Compared to the GX9, image and video is probably more or less the same, the GX9 offers IBIS but has a mediocre viewfinder and LCD, the last one only flipping up and down, and no mic input.

The problem with this camera is the marketing. If they had marketed it as a compact camera with an optional vlogging accessory, the response would probably have been much better. No other camera at this size and price offers a better viewfinder/LCD combo, and for many , that is very important. On a camera this size, the viewfinder and the shutter release are mostly what I need. As for other brands, except Olympus, they won't mount my MFT lenses.

As for the price, cameras aren't necessarily cheap because they are small. The Pen-F is a good example.

I'm absolutely on the same boat with you guys! This is the perfect camera for me because of nearly the same considerations (compact mini SLR style design, same photo IQ as G9, superb EVF, ...). But for me this is also a decision of complementing Panasonic S1. In this regard, what I'm looking is a compact and capable, "photo only" camera to use with the Leica 1.7/15. Yes, it is ONLY for this lens I will buy the G100.

The one of a kind Leica 1,7/15 lens is in my opinion the modern successor of the legendary Summicron 35 on Leica's cameras which originally created the street type, documentary photography in 35mm. There are only a hand full of similarly small but optically perfect lenses (Zeiss SOnnar 2.8/35 for Sony f.e.). But honestly, none of them is as small and light as the 1.7/15 is. Also none of them delivers that kinda unique Leica image fully open at F1.7. I used this lens a lot and in contrary to some, I believe that the 30mm equivalent focal length is absolutely perfect! With a miniscule crop (which is quite oftenly used for that type of photography even by legens like Bresson) you reach 35mm. On a 20mp MFT sensor, these few cropped out pixels are of no concern. Also, if needed, you have nearly a classic 28mm wide angle lens up your sleeve anytime you need. It is also perfect for close up shots of any kind of object with a very nice bokeh. Everybody who holds this beauty of a lens dear and looks for a compact but capable lens body, would and probably should absolutely consider getting a G100. Yes, GX9 and GM5 have both their own unique appeals but I strongly believe that in total, the new G100 outshines them both for the kind of photography mentioned above.

You may think that this is a too specific argument but you can apply this logic for many similar situations which all make it a good buy in my opinion. Yes, I too believe that this camera has too many cons but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater :)

[Mustafa Dogan]

P.S. Originally Leica was never an unattainable and luxus only camera. On the contrary, it allowed many "regular" photgraphers to obtain great photos from everyday life on streets all over the world. That's why I don't consider all those fancy and expensive modern Leica lenses as the real successor of Oscar Barnack inspired Leica legacy. Nearly none of those old, original Summicron lenses are nowadays actually used on the streets. A big majority of them vegetate on fancy-schmancy shelves in rich people's luxury houses or locked in vaults owned by old crazy collectors 🙂

[Mustafa Dogan]

I have been a Panasonic user for a very long time. Cameras I used a lot are G3, G5, G6, GH3, GH5, GM1, GM5, GX1 and GX80. This new G100 is about the same size as the original G3. Which mirrors the original spirit of the compact micro 4/3's design. Very interestingly, it has many small nice things from G, GX and GM lines but also adds a fresh modern breeze (obviously disputable) to them. This is in a way, a big accomplishment for Panasonic. I hated the G models bloating with every new iteration. I also hated them abandonig the perfect GM5. I hated them designing the otherwise perfect GX80 like a brick and also not putting the better sensor of GX9 in it. And now they somehow responded with this thing which has many features from the cameras I liked in a body I was looking for.