Olympus sells Imaging Business

[Thpriest]

A shame about Olympus.

Investment is about returns. My GH5 has been a great investment and has made me a lot of money. I recently bought a GH5S (only used a couple of times) with a cage, 2 extra batteries and rapid charger for 1290€. Paid it off on the first job I used it on. I have a 3 camera MFT set up that can film 4K until the cards fill up (with a back up recording!). They fit into a backpack. Pro work but not cine. Lots of events, conferences, training videos etc including stuff that has appeared on TV. I can see myself using it for another 2-3 years. Coming from a full video production background I have found MFT to be the only all rounder up till now.

We will see what happens next!

[John Matthews]

I would just like to say that there are quite a few advantages that only Olympus has to offer for shooting video. Here are my favorites:

1) Unparalleled IBIS (though Panasonic isn't far behind). Sony, Canon, Fuji, and Nikon are not in the same league IMO (from the footage I've seen).

2) The ONLY MFT system to offer PDAF with all those Olympus AND Panasonic lenses for video, maybe not as good as Canon or Sony, but not too far off.

3) Fantastic color out of the box (no need to fix with ProColor, sorry EOSHD)

4) Truepic VIII and IX processor equipped cameras offer very decent 4K (24-30fps) video IMO. They're highly-detailed and do wonders with highlights IMO. These cameras include EM1 ii, EM1 iii, EM10 iii, EM5 iii, PL9, and PL10. The rest of their cameras do not produce the same level of video, but they do have fantastic stills (even going back to four thirds cameras).

5) Size and weight (the EM5 iii is only 414g and has all the features mentioned above).

 

Olympus isn't so great at many things for video shoots IMO: 

1) Peaking lacks adjustments

2) Hardly any of the shooting aides such as zebras, luma levels and much, much more that the GH5 has. The list is long. I'm fine with the histogram though.

3) 4k 60fps, good 120fps. Personally, that's not so important for me.

I know many people have written JIP Olympus completely off here (one would believe that the band new factory in Vietnam is boarded up and JIP is actively looking for the highest bidding Chinese company to sell selphie sticks and portable printers), but I still have a little hope. The imaging business is Olympus's historical baby and the Japanese don't think quite like Americans in hyper-capitalistic societies. They take serious pride in what they produce and they don't make rash decisions (how do you think they're currently making some of the best products in the world?). Time will tell, but I don't think JIP is as bad as portrayed by many of you. You're thinking too much like stock market capitalists and I think it's a little more balanced than that.

[BTM_Pix]

Well if JIP are in fact a bunch of cowboys then they couldn't have a more aptly named President & CEO.

 

 

[Video Hummus]

I wonder what prompted that interesting choice of name?

My hope is they shrink back to the Japanese market where they already do well.

I think part of their profitability problem was too many management employees from the mirrorless boom time. So maybe slimming back will help cut losses, cost of global marketing, etc...but that means jobs lost.

The biggest hurtle is JIP doesn’t have much cash for R&D and continued investment.

It seems most likely they will slim down, contract to Japanese market and then try to sell. Hopefully someone competent buys it.

They have all the ingredients to release a, yes, “vlogging camera”, that is small and light with serious photography chops behind it.

Maybe Panasonic will feel more comfortable in MFT now? Who knows. MFT is likely to die like all formats probably will. That will be a loss of choice for the consumer.

I hope GH6 comes, even if it’s the last serious MFT camera, because it will be used by myself for years to come until one day I flick the power switch and it doesn’t work.

[Super8]

7 hours ago, kye said:

Maybe you could help a basement dweller out and reply to the grading questions I asked about the GH5 image not holding up?

It was a genuine question and however basement-y you think I am, a gracious individual would realise that for every person who comments, there are dozens more who follow along silently, and we could all do with learning more.

It would help us to understand your perspective as well.

Lots of people blow through these forums and when they have a different perspective or different requirements or standards then it's easy to get riled up, but it's worth it if they manage to explain their perspective and then the rest of us can understand why they have particular requirements or opinions.

Sometimes it even happens that when they share theirs, we can share ours and very very occasionally, we all learn something.

I'm glad to  have these back and forth conversations. I appreciate it.

You're tone reminds me of my tone sometimes so I'm not hating.  I do love the basement comment that gets thrown around.

The Olympus MFT discussion has shifted to the GH5 and that's fine also.  I do like the GH5 at 60fps and 120fps. 

My issue with the GH5 for color is based on my color grading the skin tone is lacking in mid tone accuracy and color detail. For some reason the GH5 and Panasonic fill in these areas and they look plastic and unnatural.

I'm also not a big speed booster fan and don't care to figure out what to use to get the proper look. The crop factor issues changes more than the depth of field. The subject background relationship changes also.  I am not describing this correctly but it would be the same if someone shot with a 35mm that was trying to get a 50mm look or a 50mm to get the 85mm look.  The GH5 DP's never seem to be in step with the right lens for the shot. To me this is because they don't fully account for the crop factor MFT effect. 

And before you guys jump in and DOWN VOTE this post I have talk to more than a few great GH5 owners that jumped on the band wagon and produce great work with the GH5. We talk about color issues, crop factor, MFT sensor size vs full frame or Super 35 set ups.

The GH5 is the reason we got the BMP4K.  Does anyone know how many GH5's were sold?  This actually answers the comments about camera sales. With the GH5 and BMP4K I truly believe those cameras took up a big part of the market.  The people that bought them have held onto these investments and haven't jumped into a new system or are waiting on a camera that's better then what they have.

The move to full frame mirror less just started in late 2018 early 2019.  Before this you had Sony.  Canon and Nikon were crushed by Sony's marketing machine and were well received until mid 2019 with the S1 arrival.

 

[Super8]

2 hours ago, John Matthews said:

I know many people have written JIP Olympus completely off here (one would believe that the band new factory in Vietnam is boarded up and JIP is actively looking for the highest bidding Chinese company to sell selphie sticks and portable printers), but I still have a little hope. The imaging business is Olympus's historical baby and the Japanese don't think quite like Americans in hyper-capitalistic societies. They take serious pride in what they produce and they don't make rash decisions (how do you think they're currently making some of the best products in the world?). Time will tell, but I don't think JIP is as bad as portrayed by many of you. You're thinking too much like stock market capitalists and I think it's a little more balanced than that.

Good post.

Thanks for the information.  Does the Olympus line up produce better stills than the GH5?

Quote

The imaging business is Olympus's historical baby and the Japanese don't think quite like Americans in hyper-capitalistic societies. They take serious pride in what they produce and they don't make rash decisions

The sell off to JIP contradicts you comment.  Yes the Japanese take pride in what they do and no one said they don't.   I don't really like your back handed comment about Americans but that's ok. 

Japan / Olympus / Nikon seem to miss the boat with how to reach and market to consumers.  Great products but missed the American market, the same hyper-capitalistic socciety that they need to sell cameras to.

[newfoundmass]

44 minutes ago, Super8 said:

The sell off to JIP contradicts you comment.  Yes the Japanese take pride in what they do and no one said they don't.   I don't really like your back handed comment about Americans but that's ok. 

Japan / Olympus / Nikon seem to miss the boat with how to reach and market to consumers.  Great products but missed the American market, the same hyper-capitalistic socciety that they need to sell cameras to.

I don't think it was a back handed comment, the United States IS a hyper capitalistic society. We can argue over whether that's a good thing or not, but it's an accurate statement. 

It's not a Japanese issue, re: marketing, given all of these companies are Japanese and they've successfully appealed to Americans for decades. Olympus had the same problem many companies have had which was they had their vision and what they wanted their cameras to do / be and stuck with it. That vision often was successful with their core customer base, but you can't be a major company that only appeals to a core base, you need to reach a larger audience. It's really disappointing because I was really rooting for them to follow Fuji and take giant leaps in video. They have all of the ingredients needed to create an incredible video capable camera. 

[Super8]

7 hours ago, ade towell said:

You really are a clown, or are you trolling... hard to tell with the amount of crap you constantly come out with

That's your opinion.

Crop factor on the GH5 / MFT is a real issue if you look at from DP's perspective.   And depth of field is one part of the issue.  You can control depth of field but the shooters using a 50mm with the GH5 crop factor think they're shooting with a 50mm just by moving back and re-framing the shot.

If you don't understand lens selection and how it affect the shot then don't get mad at me and call me a troll.  GH5 / MFT footage and be called out a mile away based on the inherent generic look it produces.

I've been on my own gigs with the BMP4K and it's MFT sensor and we always have issue trying to get the look we want vs Super 35 and FF on the same shoot.  And after the fact no amount of color grading can separate the subject from the background to make up for shooting with the wrong lens on a MFT body.

 

Quote

.....hard to tell with the amount of crap you constantly come out with

I actually appreciate Kye and how much detail is given in the post given.  

If people were being honest with him and GH5 users on the EOS then some of these issues would be addressed correctly.  

We all on the EOS strive to get more out of the cameras we buy or gear we have. We all want a cinematic look from the GH5, A6500, EOS-R and the list goes on.  Yes professional DP's that use pro cine gear on big gigs don't have to worry about the issues we do. But that should push us to get better at what we do with the gear we have. 

Some how to heard mentality wants to down vote and call me a troll for saying the same-thing others are saying. 

The GH5 and MFT is not horrible and it's not the fan boy greatest camera in the world for the money either.

 

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

13 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

It's not a Japanese issue, re: marketing, given all of these companies are Japanese and they've successfully appealed to Americans for decades. Olympus had the same problem many companies have had which was they had their vision and what they wanted their cameras to do / be and stuck with it. That vision often was successful with their core customer base, but you can't be a major company that only appeals to a core base, you need to reach a larger audience. It's really disappointing because I was really rooting for them to follow Fuji and take giant leaps in video. They have all of the ingredients needed to create an incredible video capable camera. 

Here in my opinion is how Olympus went wrong.

A) Produced cameras which tended to do better in Asian markets. Did not focus on a more global picture.

B) Ignored video users. It wasn't until 2016 that they even had a 4K mirrorless camera of interest to us, and then they did very little to capitalise on it.

C) No progression to full frame Olympus system. It isn't that the Micro Four Thirds size sensor is to blame, even though most of the market is APS-C and Full Frame. Had Olympus stuck to DSLR bodies with a Four Thirds sensor and no mirrorless mount, we'd have probably had seen them leave the camera market 8 years ago! Olympus did very well with Micro Four Thirds but since the A7 III especially, full frame alternatives presented a very strong front particularly in the latter half of the decade due to falling prices.

D) Mid-range Olympus lenses far too expensive

E) In common with many other companies there's a complete failure to understand the connected devices and social media age, or online services and software apps. Let alone implement any of these aspects well.

F) Lack of significant specs upgrade since E-M1 II. Reusing the same sensor in subsequent models and ageing LSI.

G) Lack of total commitment and significant investment

H) Lack of home-grown Olympus technology exclusives such as their own sensors or innovative parts, with exception of IBIS

I) Marketing errors. Not being on the ball. Not reading the forums and relevant blogs.

[Super8]

14 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I don't think it was a back handed comment, the United States IS a hyper capitalistic society. We can argue over whether that's a good thing or not, but it's an accurate statement. 

It's not a Japanese issue, re: marketing, given all of these companies are Japanese and they've successfully appealed to Americans for decades. Olympus had the same problem many companies have had which was they had their vision and what they wanted their cameras to do / be and stuck with it. That vision often was successful with their core customer base, but you can't be a major company that only appeals to a core base, you need to reach a larger audience. It's really disappointing because I was really rooting for them to follow Fuji and take giant leaps in video. They have all of the ingredients needed to create an incredible video capable camera. 

That makes sense.  I'll try not to be so sensitive with American comments. We have issues and are in the shit hole right now.

Olympus and Nikon's marketing is just bad and they keep missing the message and are horrible at building consumer confidence.   

[SteveV4D]

16 minutes ago, Super8 said:

 

Some how to heard mentality wants to down vote and call me a troll for saying the same-thing others are saying. 

The GH5 and MFT is not horrible and it's not the fan boy greatest camera in the world for the money either.

 

 

 

There's that old adage, it's not what you say, its how you say it.  No one likes being spoken down to.  The tone in your posts often conveys you know better than us, which only puts peoples backs up.  Now your recent post I gave a 'like' to is more on the level and a little less confrontational.  Maybe you like it that way, but others don't.  

For the record, I'm a user of the GH5, GH5s, GH4 and loads of MFT lenses.  I agree the writing is on the wall for MFTs, but I don't think that's a good thing.  Not everyone wants or needs to shoot fullframe.  I've met many who prefer a smaller sensors for various reasons, weight, size and smaller lenses being most quoted, plus their ability to adapt to almost any lens is a bonus.   

I also feel the GH5 colour isn't as consistent as say my Pocket 4K for example, especially in regard to skin tones.  The GH5s is a bit better.  That said, it takes experience with the camera and knowing the right lenses to use with it to bring the best out of it.  I've always queried some users who work with it a few times and wonder why they're not getting good results.  It needs pandering to, the GH5.  That said, I'm trying to move away from MFT and the Panasonic brand myself.  A GH6 could tempt me back if ever made, but it would need to add features I need and not just add say 8K to it and leave it at that.  

So yes, I do agree with some of your comments for the record; but they're let down by your attitude.  Really, my best advice, stop treating forums as your personal battleground.  The best people who post here add a touch of humility to their points.  

[fuzzynormal]

25 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Here in my opinion is how Olympus went wrong.

A) Produced cameras which tended to do better in Asian markets. Did not focus on a more global picture.

B) Ignored video users. It wasn't until 2016 that they even had a 4K mirrorless camera of interest to us, and then they did very little to capitalise on it.

C) No progression to full frame Olympus system. It isn't that the Micro Four Thirds size sensor is to blame, even though most of the market is APS-C and Full Frame. Had Olympus stuck to DSLR bodies with a Four Thirds sensor and no mirrorless mount, we'd have probably had seen them leave the camera market 8 years ago! Olympus did very well with Micro Four Thirds but since the A7 III especially, full frame alternatives presented a very strong front particularly in the latter half of the decade due to falling prices.

D) Mid-range Olympus lenses far too expensive

E) In common with many other companies there's a complete failure to understand the connected devices and social media age, or online services and software apps. Let alone implement any of these aspects well.

F) Lack of significant specs upgrade since E-M1 II. Reusing the same sensor in subsequent models and ageing LSI.

G) Lack of total commitment and significant investment

H) Lack of home-grown Olympus technology exclusives such as their own sensors or innovative parts, with exception of IBIS

I) Marketing errors. Not being on the ball. Not reading the forums and relevant blogs.

I don't think any of that is surprising in retrospect analysis of the company.  

Olympus is/was a frustrating company.  You could tell they had a team and the basic technology to do something cool and inventive, but it always felt a bit shackled from taking the bigger riskier step to really compete.

There's probably scant chance the remains of Olympus imaging will spin off into anything amazing in the future...but the irony is that there's still a narrow path where they could thrive in a market niche, I think.  If anything has shown us from the bast 10 years is that these companies don't necessarily need to have to have the latest and greatest sensor to build a really impressive, useful, and cool camera.  What they do need to do is wring more out of what's been developed in the CMOS arena already.

But it's out of the hands of people with an engineering/artistic passion for cameras, and it's into the hands of financiers.  Best to to throw hope away for Olympus at this point.

[SteveV4D]

I've only ever really known Olympus for their lenses I used.  They were often a bit better than the Panasonic MFT.  I may have owned one of their point and shoot film cameras when I was young, but that was too long ago for me to remember.  Besides I only became a camera nerd with digital.  😄

Its a shame we lose another brand, though its a sell off rather than shut down.  Whether that'll make a difference.  I agree with Andrews points why it happened and frankly I can see it continuing to happen with other brands in the future.  The golden years of digital photo cameras are behind. 

As for the future, whilst I can see why many want or need a hybrid camera that does video and photo, only Blackmagic seem to have released a dedicated for video only camera in that lower price bracket.  I'd love to see other manufacturers try their hand at one.  Canon tried something interesting along those lines with the XC10, but it was a fixed lens.  Maybe other users here disagree and prefer hybrids, but I'm someone who went to Turkey with my GH5 and shot video with it, whilst taking photos on my smartphone.  Yep, I'm guilty of using a smartphone for photography. 😄  But what can I say, its easier and produces instant results that I prefer over photos taken on my GH5.  

I look to the mirrorless for their size, not their hybrid function and would welcome more manufacturers providing small video only interchangeable lens cameras.  Will that help the industry.  Maybe not, but thats my take.

 

[anonim]

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

Crop factor on the GH5 / MFT is a real issue if you look at from DP's perspective.  

"Crop factor" usage of cameras with obvious issue from DP's perspective... that found their way to different Cannes 2019 selection sections:

MAIN COMPETITION (Palme d’Or Contenders)

- “Sorry We Missed You”

      Dir: Ken Loach, DoP: Robbie Ryan

      Format:  Arri 16mm
      Camera: Arri416 16mm

DIRECTORS’ FORTNIGHT

- “The Halt”

       Dir: Lav Diaz, DoP: Daniel Uy

       Format: 4k
       Camera: GH5S Panasonic Camera
       Lens: 18mm-50mm zoom lens Panasonic, 70mm-100mm zoom lens Panasonic

- “Lillian”

       Dir/DoP: Andreas Horwath

       Format: Digital, 2K, Lossless CinemaDNG RAW — and 4K for the drone footage
      Camera: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera
       Lens: Voigtländer Nokton Series

- “The Orphanage”

       Dir: Shahrbanoo Sadat, DoP: Virginie Surdej

       Format: Alexa Mini-S16 HD mode/ prores
       Camera: Alexa mini S16 HD mode

UN CERTAIN REGARD

- “A Brother’s Love”

        Dir: Monia Chokri, DoP: Josée Deshayes
        Format: Super 16mm, 7219 Kodak
        Camera: Arri 416

- “Liberte”

        Dir: Albert Serra, DoP: Artur Tort

        Format: 2K
        Camera: Canon C300 Mark ii (crop mode)
        Lens: Canon 11-138 (S16)

OUT OF COMPETITION

- “Let It Be Law”

         Dir/DoP: Juan Solanas

        Format: UHD 3840×2160
        Camera: Panasonic GH5
        Lens: Leica 12-60mm 2.8/4

[noone]

30 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

There's that old adage, it's not what you say, its how you say it.  No one likes being spoken down to.  The tone in your posts often conveys you know better than us, which only puts peoples backs up.  Now your recent post I gave a 'like' to is more on the level and a little less confrontational.  Maybe you like it that way, but others don't.  

 

So yes, I do agree with some of your comments for the record; but they're let down by your attitude.  Really, my best advice, stop treating forums as your personal battleground.  The best people who post here add a touch of humility to their points.  

This!

The other thing is posting OPINIONS as fact ( and arguing with people over OPINIONS who have a different opinion?).

If I say something as fact that is clearly wrong, then i expect to be told but my opinion is based on what i see and read and how many times i have gone around the sun using a wide variety of photo equipment for decades. 

It also helps if people can back up the things they say they are or do.

I know squat about video so I am here to learn the little bits I want   

Regards the GH5, plenty of people are doing just fine with a GH5, not a camera for me but my nephew is happy using it to earn a large part of his living.

here comes an opinion....I think Olympus just could not handle money in the way a western country company would.    They have been plagued by scandals (geez they hid a BILLION dollar loss for years not so long ago) and as Thom Hogan says, Japanese law and customs made it difficult for them to do anything to stem the flow of bleeding money now.

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

The crop factor stills reduces the market for a stills camera, because full frame is the pro standard.

It doesn't mean to say there is not a place for S16 and M43 in cinema, or even in stills.

It does mean to say that customer choice is important and Olympus never stepped outside the one sensor size fits all bracket.

[Super8]

46 minutes ago, anonim said:

"Crop factor" usage of cameras with obvious issue from DP's perspective... that found their way to different Cannes 2019 selection sections:

MAIN COMPETITION (Palme d’Or Contenders)

- “Sorry We Missed You”

      Dir: Ken Loach, DoP: Robbie Ryan

      Format:  Arri 16mm
      Camera: Arri416 16mm

DIRECTORS’ FORTNIGHT

- “The Halt”

       Dir: Lav Diaz, DoP: Daniel Uy

       Format: 4k
       Camera: GH5S Panasonic Camera
       Lens: 18mm-50mm zoom lens Panasonic, 70mm-100mm zoom lens Panasonic

- “Lillian”

       Dir/DoP: Andreas Horwath

       Format: Digital, 2K, Lossless CinemaDNG RAW — and 4K for the drone footage
      Camera: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera
       Lens: Voigtländer Nokton Series

- “The Orphanage”

       Dir: Shahrbanoo Sadat, DoP: Virginie Surdej

       Format: Alexa Mini-S16 HD mode/ prores
       Camera: Alexa mini S16 HD mode

UN CERTAIN REGARD

- “A Brother’s Love”

        Dir: Monia Chokri, DoP: Josée Deshayes
        Format: Super 16mm, 7219 Kodak
        Camera: Arri 416

- “Liberte”

        Dir: Albert Serra, DoP: Artur Tort

        Format: 2K
        Camera: Canon C300 Mark ii (crop mode)
        Lens: Canon 11-138 (S16)

OUT OF COMPETITION

- “Let It Be Law”

         Dir/DoP: Juan Solanas

        Format: UHD 3840×2160
        Camera: Panasonic GH5
        Lens: Leica 12-60mm 2.8/4

I didn't say it can't be done by professionals that what they want. 

I'm talking about 80% of GH5 footage on You Tube.

 

 

[Super8]

59 minutes ago, noone said:

This!

The other thing is posting OPINIONS as fact ( and arguing with people over OPINIONS who have a different opinion?).

If I say something as fact that is clearly wrong, then i expect to be told but my opinion is based on what i see and read and how many times i have gone around the sun using a wide variety of photo equipment for decades. 

It also helps if people can back up the things they say they are or do.

I know squat about video so I am here to learn the little bits I want   

Regards the GH5, plenty of people are doing just fine with a GH5, not a camera for me but my nephew is happy using it to earn a large part of his living.

here comes an opinion....I think Olympus just could not handle money in the way a western country company would.    They have been plagued by scandals (geez they hid a BILLION dollar loss for years not so long ago) and as Thom Hogan says, Japanese law and customs made it difficult for them to do anything to stem the flow of bleeding money now.

 

 

Do I need to state what comments are facts and what are opinions?

If clear anything in the future is opinion.  It should be clear what's fan boy talk and talk about the GH5 short comings.  The GH5 color issues should be apparent based on what cameras have followed them.  The P4K showed us what was possible with a 4K sensors packaged at a lower price.  The Z Cam E2 let the world know what great clean color a 4K sensor could produce.  The last two comments are fact and not opinion.  You might not like to read them because it sheds how far we've come from the GH5. 

The P4K and Z Cam E2 are the reasons why I won't buy a MFT camera and never recommend using the GH5.  These two cameras prove my opionon about the GH5 is correct, that the GH5 is all spec with a picture that doesn't hold up to today's standards. 

You only have one shot to capture that footage.  Think about that next time you hit record.

On an important shoot I'm renting an ARRI or RED.

 

 

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

As for the future, whilst I can see why many want or need a hybrid camera that does video and photo, only Blackmagic seem to have released a dedicated for video only camera in that lower price bracket.  I'd love to see other manufacturers try their hand at one.  Canon tried something interesting along those lines with the XC10, but it was a fixed lens.  Maybe other users here disagree and prefer hybrids, but I'm someone who went to Turkey with my GH5 and shot video with it, whilst taking photos on my smartphone. 

Z Cam E2 is in the same price range and video only.

 

 

 

 

[SteveV4D]

12 minutes ago, Super8 said:

 

 

 

Z Cam E2 is in the same price range and video only.

 

 

 

 

Ah yes, I forgot that one.  So thats the Blackmagic range and the E2.  I'd still like others to explore this route. 

[Super8]

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

There's that old adage, it's not what you say, its how you say it.  No one likes being spoken down to.  The tone in your posts often conveys you know better than us, which only puts peoples backs up.  Now your recent post I gave a 'like' to is more on the level and a little less confrontational.  Maybe you like it that way, but others don't.  

For the record, I'm a user of the GH5, GH5s, GH4 and loads of MFT lenses.  I agree the writing is on the wall for MFTs, but I don't think that's a good thing.  Not everyone wants or needs to shoot fullframe.  I've met many who prefer a smaller sensors for various reasons, weight, size and smaller lenses being most quoted, plus their ability to adapt to almost any lens is a bonus.   

I also feel the GH5 colour isn't as consistent as say my Pocket 4K for example, especially in regard to skin tones.  The GH5s is a bit better.  That said, it takes experience with the camera and knowing the right lenses to use with it to bring the best out of it.  I've always queried some users who work with it a few times and wonder why they're not getting good results.  It needs pandering to, the GH5.  That said, I'm trying to move away from MFT and the Panasonic brand myself.  A GH6 could tempt me back if ever made, but it would need to add features I need and not just add say 8K to it and leave it at that.  

So yes, I do agree with some of your comments for the record; but they're let down by your attitude.  Really, my best advice, stop treating forums as your personal battleground.  The best people who post here add a touch of humility to their points.  

I'll work on my attitude. I can't promise anything and most will keep down voting my comments but I'm trying to help and give my take when I have one.  I will try.

What are you trying to move into? FF or Super35 ?

I used MFT, moved to Super35 and then FF.  Right now I could go Super35 if the right camera for the right price presented itself.  FF is frustrating because you still have to buy into a system.  Canon might be the way to go but we have to see final specs and real world testing.  I very much want to move to Canon.  Sony doesn't seem to want to innovate anymore and I don't trust them to be dedicated to FF down the road.  I love the S1 and S1H and would move to Panasonic but the AF bothers me.  I don't think AF is as bad as people say but I need to test it before I buy it.