scotchtape Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 I doubt there will be a fix as the sensor is just hella noisy at high ISOs, which is why there's so much NR in the first place. In the PB video didn't he say that external raw bypasses the NR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llaasseerr Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 19 hours ago, Hangs4Fun said: BTW... When ETTR'ing at 94+ (for the corrective LUT's I use), the RAW output looks beautiful on the Ninja V using the corrective LUT as a display assist. But when I bring it into Premiere the highlights and whites are significantly over exposed. No clue yet why, trying to work with each of the pieces of the puzzle to resolve, Adobe, Apple, and LUT maker via support tickets and passing along findings. So today I setup a color checker test and did regular output (ETTR 94+), RAW (94+), RAW underexposed 1 stop, 2 stops, and 3 stops from ETTR 94+. I don't have my SSD to USB cable with me, so I don't know which one is best yet once you get it into Premiere past the Apple ProRes RAW drivers. It looks perfect in the Ninja V when ETTR'ed at 94+ with the corrective LUT, so until I can get the footage into Premiere I won't know. My wife is sending me that adapter, so I should be able to see by tomorrow night and will share my findings. I mention this, because it will affect how you expose RAW on the A7SIII Have a great day, and be safe out there 🙂 I already mentioned this in another thread, but without checking myself in Premiere, I believe it's just importing the raw as gamma 1.0 whereas when you are monitoring on the Ninja V, it's converting it to Slog3. Unless you are working in Resolve, Nuke or Scratch then you need to transform from raw to log to be able to use the footage correctly in Premiere because it doesn't have a robust colour management pipeline that allows for wide gamut or floating point images. Hangs4Fun and Juank 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llaasseerr Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, Llaasseerr said: I already mentioned this in another thread, but without checking myself in Premiere, I believe it's just importing the raw as gamma 1.0 whereas when you are monitoring on the Ninja V, it's converting it to Slog3. Unless you are working in Resolve, Nuke or Scratch then you need to transform from raw to log to be able to use the footage correctly in Premiere because it doesn't have a robust colour management pipeline that allows for wide gamut or floating point images. To clarify this, the raw values are not overexposed, they are outside of the 0-1 viewing range of your monitor. If you apply the inverse of an Slog3 curve to your Slog3 image, you will get the same visual result as the raw image because it undoes the log encoding. Slog3 is normalising the entire dynamic range into 0-1 with equal spacing between stops in a 0-1023 range. When you apply your Rec709 LUT, which is expecting a log input, it is also shaping the DR into a 0-1 space but in a non-linear way using a filmic S-curve to aesthetically shape the knee and toe. A raw image has no gamma correction and is linear 1.0, where the space between stops is double the amount of light, as it is in the real world. This is an inefficient way of storing dynamic range unless you have at least 16 integer bits available, but preferably you have a floating point image format which allows for the correct middle grey value pushing highlight values above 1.0. This is why OpenEXR exists. So you need to first do a raw to log transform which for you would be slog3 like the Ninja V, as a pre-step before applying your final LUT. Scratch has a good ProRes Raw workflow that allows this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangs4Fun Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Llaasseerr said: I already mentioned this in another thread, but without checking myself in Premiere, I believe it's just importing the raw as gamma 1.0 whereas when you are monitoring on the Ninja V, it's converting it to Slog3. Unless you are working in Resolve, Nuke or Scratch then you need to transform from raw to log to be able to use the footage correctly in Premiere because it doesn't have a robust colour management pipeline that allows for wide gamut or floating point images. I have Resolve 16 and the ProRes RAW HQ or ProRes RAW doesn't seem to work at all there. What you are saying makes a lot of sense though. If I can just find a place to convert it to S-Log3 or something first. Was really preferring to do the color grades in Resolve, and then edit in Premiere (until I wean myself off of Premiere, lol). I will look at Nuke and Scratch, maybe they can handle this new RAW or maybe eventually Resolve will handle it and I can separately grade and export my files to edit with. Obviously for a cleaner workflow, it would be nice to grade and edit in the same place without a middle rendering. One thing I wonder is if I could bring these into Media Encoder and perform a transform there to S-Log3 first. And heck with that being said, If that works, then I could also potentially create an injest preset to use as default injests in Premiere like I already do for auto generating proxies. Will have to play around with that (though I was trying to wean myself over to Resolve). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llaasseerr Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Hangs4Fun said: I have Resolve 16 and the ProRes RAW HQ or ProRes RAW doesn't seem to work at all there. What you are saying makes a lot of sense though. If I can just find a place to convert it to S-Log3 or something first. Was really preferring to do the color grades in Resolve, and then edit in Premiere (until I wean myself off of Premiere, lol). I will look at Nuke and Scratch, maybe they can handle this new RAW or maybe eventually Resolve will handle it and I can separately grade and export my files to edit with. Obviously for a cleaner workflow, it would be nice to grade and edit in the same place without a middle rendering. One thing I wonder is if I could bring these into Media Encoder and perform a transform there to S-Log3 first. And heck with that being said, If that works, then I could also potentially create an injest preset to use as default injests in Premiere like I already do for auto generating proxies. Will have to play around with that (though I was trying to wean myself over to Resolve). Right, Resolve doesn't support ProRes RAW. Neither does Nuke. Forgot to bring that up, they expect an intermediate transcode. While I'm testing this out, I'm personally using Scratch to trancode to either slog3/sgamut3 or to ACES OpenEXR. Apparently Adobe have added the ability to immediately convert to SLog3/Sgamut3 on import of a ProRes RAW file in a recent beta of Premiere, so you will then be good to go and have the same image as your Ninja V: https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-beta/discuss-prores-raw-raw-to-log-conversion-support/m-p/11413274?page=1#M850 Hangs4Fun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Collins Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 I found this video incredibly informative. It explained a lot of things I didnt really understand such as why the differences in isos between picture profiles exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinad Amir Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Robert Collins said: I found this video incredibly informative. It explained a lot of things I didnt really understand such as why the differences in isos between picture profiles exist. I love his work ,talk about attention to details👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerocool22 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Has anybody have a link to a7s iii 16bit raw footage, what external recorders support this right now? I kinda dismissed the a7s iii, but now i have seen how much better the komodo (16bit) looks over the pocket 6k (12 bit). Im kinda curious about the a7s iii's potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajay Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Can Catalyst Browse be used as a transcoder for ProRes Raw? This might be a solution for those using Davinci Resolve. Can someone try that has the Ninja? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinad Amir Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, ajay said: Can Catalyst Browse be used as a transcoder for ProRes Raw? This might be a solution for those using Davinci Resolve. Can someone try that has the Ninja? Thanks! I cant even run it on my rig for some strange reason!? It keeps crashing damm Cb Wanted to test out gyro magic😑 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajay Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 20 hours ago, Rinad Amir said: Wanted to test out gyro magic😑 The "gyro magic" is nice but it requires added steps, crops in quite a bit and makes my face fatter🤔. I might use it occasionally. Rinad Amir 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinad Amir Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, ajay said: The "gyro magic" is nice but it requires added steps, crops in quite a bit and makes my face fatter🤔. I might use it occasionally. Atleast you tried 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangs4Fun Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 23 hours ago, ajay said: Can Catalyst Browse be used as a transcoder for ProRes Raw? This might be a solution for those using Davinci Resolve. Can someone try that has the Ninja? Thanks! Right now, I have only had luck recording ProRes RAW HQ to my Ninja V. But when I bring it into Premiere it os severely over exposed, even though it looks perfect on the Ninja V. To do this i installed the Apple ProRes RAW windows driver and then imported into Premiere , both at the latest versions. Someone else mentioned that I need to transcode it first and then import into Premiere. But what really sucks right now is that using my Sony XLR-K3M to do 4 channels of audio first, does not let me output 4 channels to the Ninja V whether ProRes RAW or regular ProRes HQ. And even using internal codecs only works if I go straight into Premiere, thrn I can see 1-4 channels properly. But if I wanted to go to catalyst browse first to use gyro based stabilization, even Sonys own Catalyst Browse doesn't have the 4 channels, which I'm hearing is the case in other places too. So will have to wait for each to add proper support for the new PCLM 4 channel audio. Obviously, Da Vinci Resolve doesn't support ProRes RAW (since they have BRAW which competes now against ProRes RAW... kind of) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchtape Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 S-cinetone being added to a7siii via firmware!!! Trek of Joy and Juank 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trek of Joy Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 8 hours ago, scotchtape said: S-cinetone being added to a7siii via firmware!!! Its nice to see that, I'd prefer a few other fixes over cinetone. But its a step in the right direction. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinad Amir Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 This is great news😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trek of Joy Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 v2.0 FW is out. Cinetone is the headline, but there are always under the hood fixes filed under "improves overall stability of the camera" https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/e-mount-body-ilce-7-series/ilce-7sm3/downloads This is the worst part of owning a Sony, not being able to simply copy to a card and update, have to plug in the camera and hope for the best. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchtape Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Welp, I'll wait a week to see if it bricks anyone's camera... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinad Amir Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Id love to to true 24p mode added! if fx6 has it and uses same internals as this Other than that thank you Sony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFason Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 On 2/25/2021 at 9:08 PM, scotchtape said: Welp, I'll wait a week to see if it bricks anyone's camera... Worked seamlessly for me. My biggest gripe is why it won't work with Big Sur. Cinetone looks wonderful for simple projects. I wish they would give us an update with shutter angle and custom WB in preset 1/2/3 modes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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