Silenkiller Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 anyone have any links to some a7s iii footage of people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 4 hours ago, luizhmgoncalves said: I find the footages here: 4k H265 10bit - EOS R5 https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dA1Em-D2ioEJU5jInk_JT_EsQGVIprCZ 4k H264 10bit - A7s3 footage (Terrible filmed by those Italian guys a video posted early) https://slimdogsproduction.wetransfer.com/downloads/be4e230906d02ad1281aa39cf8a4fe1820200723133445/c42214 3 hours ago, Super8 said: Premier might not be the best software to use for playback. FCPX might have a better chance working with H265. I was able to smoothly play the Canon R5 4K120FPS footage within DR using both a 1080P timeline and a 4K timeline. The caveat there is that it stuttered at the very beginning then it played smoothly, I'm not sure if behind the scenes DR was cheating a bit and doing some sort of caching; but my system actually surprised me, it played smoother than some of my GoPro and Drone footage. I tested the footage on both a 1080P timeline and a 4K timeline and playback was still smooth. My system is an HP Z4 with Windows 10, Core i9 14 core CPU, a RTX 2080TI video card, Davinci Resolve Studio, 64GB of memory, and NVME RAID array for the project drive. I haven't tested the Sony footage yet because it is still downloading, I wish they had broken it up into individual files so that I could download just one. One thing that I couldn't tell from the YouTube videos is if they were using DR Studio or the free version, you don't get HW acceleration in the free version. My build is probably around $6K so well below the $15K MAC system in the video. So I went a step further and color graded the clip and DR was still smooth. I do feel like it was at the edge of what it could handle, and would probably require proxies for any kind of real work with this footage. Another annoying thing is you will definitely need proxies if you want to do any kind of speed ramping with the footage, when I tried to bring it up to normal playback speed it was unusable. Super8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 4K 24-60P and 4K 120P have almost the same level of sharpness and detail. And 1080P is not supersampled, but pixel-binned from 24-60P and line-skipped from 100-240P. Emanuel, Juank and tellure 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I just tested the Sony footage, way easier on my system, 10% CPU, 15% GPU playback was effortless. Even after grading it, the GPU was around 22%. So not only does the Canon R5 overheat, it uses codecs that throw away all of the GPU HW acceleration progress over the past 10yrs and pushes your CPU to its max or makes you create proxies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashit Tandon Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 With Slog3 on the a7siii (iso 640), does one have to still over expose by 2 stops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billdoubleu Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 6 hours ago, androidlad said: Regarding the so-called "16bit linear RAW" 4264 x 2408 60FPS HDMI output, it's actually derived from 12bit ADC sensor readout, then dithered(upscaled) by the DSP to 16bit. Are there any benefits to having the "fake" information derived from the original readout? Or is this simply a useful marketing tool for Sony? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, Ashit Tandon said: With Slog3 on the a7siii (iso 640), does one have to still over expose by 2 stops? You can download a sample, shot at 0EV and see for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, billdoubleu said: Are there any benefits to having the "fake" information derived from the original readout? Or is this simply a useful marketing tool for Sony? Mostly a marketing tool so people perceive it as on par with those CineAlta cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoogieKnight Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 6 hours ago, androidlad said: Regarding the so-called "16bit linear RAW" 4264 x 2408 60FPS HDMI output, it's actually derived from 12bit ADC sensor readout, then dithered(upscaled) by the DSP to 16bit. Hope you don't mind me asking but how do you know this? Are the specs for the sensor they're using online? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abehalpert Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 hour ago, androidlad said: 4K 24-60P and 4K 120P have almost the same level of sharpness and detail. And 1080P is not supersampled, but pixel-binned from 24-60P and line-skipped from 100-240P. Is this your observation or a stated fact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 29 minutes ago, TheBoogieKnight said: Hope you don't mind me asking but how do you know this? Are the specs for the sensor they're using online? 1 minute ago, abehalpert said: Is this your observation or a stated fact? A combination of observations and insider info. Emanuel and Juank 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoogieKnight Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 minute ago, androidlad said: A combination of observations and insider info. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abehalpert Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 8 hours ago, androidlad said: Regarding the so-called "16bit linear RAW" 4264 x 2408 60FPS HDMI output, it's actually derived from 12bit ADC sensor readout, then dithered(upscaled) by the DSP to 16bit. How can they deliver so much DR with a 12bit adc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezid Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 2 hours ago, abehalpert said: How can they deliver so much DR with a 12bit adc? Sony is king when it comes to noise reduction (and sharpening). If that's a good thing or not is highly subjective. I'd rather have a an organic looking image than the digital madness the a7s3, a73, a6600, a7s2 etc. offer. Juank and Emanuel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 23 hours ago, zerocool22 said: Yeah I like the nikon colours, but dynamic range is still lacking on nikon cameras (and some usefull features). Maybe they will amaze us with their next camera, but I really doubt it. They have no higher end line to protect, so they could have done this 8 years ago and blew the competition away, but they didnt, so not expecting any miracles from their end. Where did you find the DR lacking in Nikon's. I mean in some test Nikon Flat profile competes already well with Canon Log profile. I haven't done enough test myself but Nikon log gives you even more DR and highlight Roll off are among the best in the MLC cameras I have seen. What useful features, they have excellent ergonomics, Ibis, viewfinder and construction. What do they miss. For example I was laughting when the leaked BH of the A7S3 came out because the guy was so wow about doing rack focus with the back touch screen. I mean I have been doing it on my Z since it started. By the way, they were the first to give 422 video ot, 10 bit FF camera and even RAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PabloB Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 38 minutes ago, deezid said: Sony is king when it comes to noise reduction (and sharpening). If that's a good thing or not is highly subjective. I'd rather have a an organic looking image than the digital madness the a7s3, a73, a6600, a7s2 etc. offer. I don't believe that's true. Nikon when they released the Z6 it had a ton of sharpening on the image. Sony was in my eyes is just very detailed from the downsampling. Canon with their aggressive AA filter give a nice image feel at the expenses of detail which many like and some don't - just different philosophies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luizhmgoncalves Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 5 hours ago, herein2020 said: I was able to smoothly play the Canon R5 4K120FPS footage within DR using both a 1080P timeline and a 4K timeline. The caveat there is that it stuttered at the very beginning then it played smoothly, I'm not sure if behind the scenes DR was cheating a bit and doing some sort of caching; but my system actually surprised me, it played smoother than some of my GoPro and Drone footage. I tested the footage on both a 1080P timeline and a 4K timeline and playback was still smooth. My system is an HP Z4 with Windows 10, Core i9 14 core CPU, a RTX 2080TI video card, Davinci Resolve Studio, 64GB of memory, and NVME RAID array for the project drive. I haven't tested the Sony footage yet because it is still downloading, I wish they had broken it up into individual files so that I could download just one. One thing that I couldn't tell from the YouTube videos is if they were using DR Studio or the free version, you don't get HW acceleration in the free version. My build is probably around $6K so well below the $15K MAC system in the video. So I went a step further and color graded the clip and DR was still smooth. I do feel like it was at the edge of what it could handle, and would probably require proxies for any kind of real work with this footage. Another annoying thing is you will definitely need proxies if you want to do any kind of speed ramping with the footage, when I tried to bring it up to normal playback speed it was unusable. I Just did another test here. Its crazy wath you said, that even your machine with RTX 2080 ti is on the limit for that footage. Maybe Nvidia RTXs has better implementation for the kind of compression of the h265 Eos R5 are generating. Runing on Resolve Studio too. This time I tested with another Canon Eos R5 clip from another source also. The clip with trees are from A7s3 - XAVS HS that is H265 10bit. And in the end i add two 8k Raw clips from canon EOS R5 Again, the Eos R5 h265 didn't playback realtime and CPUU 100%. The A7s h265 plays realtime, and my CPU was at 60% The Raw 8k played realtime with the CPU at 15%. For me it made both the R5 and R6 unusable. Imagine having to do proxies or chache all the files for a Feature documentary My last project was a 72min documentary with 20h plus of footage to select and edit. An youtuber produces hours of footage everyday. These files kill any workflow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 hour ago, PabloB said: I don't believe that's true. Nikon when they released the Z6 it had a ton of sharpening on the image. Sony was in my eyes is just very detailed from the downsampling. Canon with their aggressive AA filter give a nice image feel at the expenses of detail which many like and some don't - just different philosophies. You can turn down the sharpening on the Z6. It depends on what mode you shoot with but you can turn it all the way down. 1 hour ago, Danyyyel said: Where did you find the DR lacking in Nikon's. I mean in some test Nikon Flat profile competes already well with Canon Log profile. I haven't done enough test myself but Nikon log gives you even more DR and highlight Roll off are among the best in the MLC cameras I have seen. What useful features, they have excellent ergonomics, Ibis, viewfinder and construction. What do they miss. For example I was laughting when the leaked BH of the A7S3 came out because the guy was so wow about doing rack focus with the back touch screen. I mean I have been doing it on my Z since it started. By the way, they were the first to give 422 video ot, 10 bit FF camera and even RAW. Yeah the "Z6 DR is lacking" comments are coming out of no where over the last 3 days. Danyyyel and Zeng 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, PabloB said: I don't believe that's true. Nikon when they released the Z6 it had a ton of sharpening on the image. Sony was in my eyes is just very detailed from the downsampling. Canon with their aggressive AA filter give a nice image feel at the expenses of detail which many like and some don't - just different philosophies. It is true. Ghosting from heavy NR is well documented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docmoore Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 hours ago, luizhmgoncalves said: I Just did another test here. Its crazy wath you said, that even your machine with RTX 2080 ti is on the limit for that footage. Maybe Nvidia RTXs has better implementation for the kind of compression of the h265 Eos R5 are generating. Runing on Resolve Studio too. This time I tested with another Canon Eos R5 clip from another source also. The clip with trees are from A7s3 - XAVS HS that is H265 10bit. And in the end i add two 8k Raw clips from canon EOS R5 Again, the Eos R5 h265 didn't playback realtime and CPUU 100%. The A7s h265 plays realtime, and my CPU was at 60% The Raw 8k played realtime with the CPU at 15%. For me it made both the R5 and R6 unusable. Imagine having to do proxies or chache all the files for a Feature documentary My last project was a 72min documentary with 20h plus of footage to select and edit. An youtuber produces hours of footage everyday. These files kill any workflow. I took a 54Gb 15 minute 4K DCI All-I HEVC file from my 1DX III into my iPadPro ... opened in Lumafusion and it played in realtime ... I then exported it as H.264 4K DCi to VLC on the same device ... rendered in under 5 minutes ... and was perfect ... when I transcode the same file type on my 2010 Mac Pro it takes easily 5 times as long. So Max Yuryev is correct ... the new Apple chips will work with the H.265 4:2:2 files without breaking a sweat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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