Sony A7S III

[thebrothersthre3]

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

You are 100% correct.  The Z6 is much better than what's portrayed on YouTube.  People on the EOS don't know what they're missing.  It's all marketing.  This is what I hate about Sony marketing.  It's to the point that it's false and hyped up.  It's great for the Sony side but it takes down a company like Nikon.  That's the dishonest part.  Have people lie about the Z6 camera so it has a poor reputation.

Nikon pushed the limits of video quality that we expected, no reason they won't do it again.

Kind of Nikon's fault though. It had some AF issues up front which got it a bad rep from the start. I am not sure why companies release stuff that isn't finished yet. If it had Prores RAW from the start that would have been huge. 

[Video Hummus]

Well there is the Z6S which is rumored to have the same sensor as the Z6. So maybe it’s the fixed Z camera everybody wanted to begin with (10-bit, 4K60, z-log, better AF). It’s definitely on my radar. Along with GH6 and perhaps a fixed R5. I like where Sony is going. I just don’t like the A7 style bodies at all and if I’m going to spend that much on a camera I want to enjoy holding it in my hand. 

[Danyyyel]

18 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

I'm with you. Still waiting for that unicorn to appear, for a brief second the R5 was it and I had one that would have been delivered Thursday. Then it literally went down in flames. Given that we really won't see anything significant for another couple of years now that Canon has gone all-in with the R5/6, Nikon is drunk and passed out with the rumored Z6s/7s, all Sony has left is the a7IV which will be hit with the cripple hammer compared to the a7s3, and nobody else is making significant headway - I've accepted the fact that the one camera hybrid solution isn't happening anytime soon. One body will shoot mostly stills, one mostly video, lots of lens changes, and lots of damn sensor swabs since Sony's 3rd/4th gen cams attract dust like no other camera I've used. Holy shit the a73/a7r3's are a dust magnet compared to the a7r2/s2 I carried across six continents!

Anyway, needing to go two cameras means I've ordered the a7s3 and I'm now looking to shift my a7r3 to a a7r4 so AF and accessories are mirrored (pun intended) between the two with grips, underwater housings and so on. This will cover me for the next 2-3 years until someone gets it right in the next round of updates.

Cheers

Chris

What, have you ever used a z6, I mean just hold it and looked not at those small pixelated display but its viewfinder. I mean, just this makes it a complete different experience. The day I just hold and looked at an A73, I said wtf is all the hype about this toy, do people hold these cameras, or they have to rig the hell out of it for it to be usable. My Z6 (even a little bit too small for me) is just a joy to use, even compared to full pro body like my D810 . I mean I can control nearly everything from my right hand and never leave the viewfinder. The IBIS and very very good video autofocus have people confused if I am shooting video or photo because with those two, I can nearly shoot without a tripod (needed for good pans)

And what about the image quality, great colors out of the box, great motion cadence, very nice internal codec.

 

 

[Danyyyel]

And work in harsh tropical conditions with very hard light, high temperatures and monsoon rains. Until now zero shutdown or any malfunctions. From all the Nikon bodies this is my most preferred body, at worst I keep it in its cage even for photos As I prefer a little bit larger bodies. Because it serves me so well in photos also even when I worked on Film set as set photographer, shooting between it and d810, I had no problem thinking I was looking in an actual viewfinder.

 

 

 

[Danyyyel]

2 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Kind of Nikon's fault though. It had some AF issues up front which got it a bad rep from the start. I am not sure why companies release stuff that isn't finished yet. If it had Prores RAW from the start that would have been huge. 

Did you use it or did you just listen to bias reviews. From the start video AF has been around the best, secondly when it came out people where comparing it (Z7) to the D850 which has the D5 style AF. We are talking AF only the likes Sony A9 can keep with. Since then they have released firmware after firmware to put more and more features from eye AF to prorez RAW.  Tell me is this AF bad, or you will listen to some youtuber who use the camera 15 minutes

 

[icarrere]

Min 2:28 and 2:34, do you like it?

[thebrothersthre3]

28 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

Did you use it or did you just listen to bias reviews. From the start video AF has been around the best, secondly when it came out people where comparing it (Z7) to the D850 which has the D5 style AF. We are talking AF only the likes Sony A9 can keep with. Since then they have released firmware after firmware to put more and more features from eye AF to prorez RAW.  Tell me is this AF bad, or you will listen to some youtuber who use the camera 15 minutes

 

I've used the Z6 before. Isn't that updated firmware though? My point was upon release not firmware updates. Camera companies release unfinished cameras and then people complain about bad reviews. 

Nikon is definitely on my radar, just not atm when its lacking internal 10 bit. They did fuck up pretty bad IMO saying the camera would do RAW and then discovering you have to send in the body to them to get it installed. 

[Danyyyel]

17 hours ago, Super8 said:

Nikon is hardly drunk and passed out.  They produced a better camera than anything Sony has released so far (the A7S3 is not out yet).  This tells you how far Sony brainwash has seeped into the cine world.  You can't argue AF / No AF or BM IR pollution / color science and then give Sony a free pass on everything above.  People talk about Nikon full sensor read out Pro Res RAW external and get caught up in line skip binning / recording to Atomos or whatever but then Sony gets a pass on external RAW. We talk about image quality, color science and Sony gets a pass. You can't always fix Sony color, in fact you can't fix Sony color.  Sony does not produce a NR FREE, sharpened FREE cinematic moving image.  Sony does great PR and marketing and this is evident in the You Tube producers that we dismiss but now look to for reassurance that the Sony A7S3 is better than the Canon R5 because it records longer before over heating.  Everyone has forgot the R5 does 8K RAW internally.  At the end of the day the best produced image wins. 

Exactly, they are just brainwashed by their youtube gods. The latest on is that guy called Undone. I call him the pink guy before all his new found fame. I mean I would never present myself with such colors, when he just not well shave he looks like a drunk with the colors he has graded himself. The guy who tells you not to take into consideration that the Sony overheats.... While it factually does. I am fed up about youtube shooters that are some kind of like of authority now while they never venture outside of their basement studios. I mean I remember all the fuss about Nikon 4k RAW video being less detailed than the 4k (6k down scaled to 4k), so what about charts that show clearly that the A7s3 is much less detailed than the S1H for example?

[Danyyyel]

10 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I've used the Z6 before. Isn't that updated firmware though? My point was upon release not firmware updates. Camera companies release unfinished cameras and then people complain about bad reviews. 

Nikon is definitely on my radar, just not atm when its lacking internal 10 bit. They did fuck up pretty bad IMO saying the camera would do RAW and then discovering you have to send in the body to them to get it installed. 

Did you use it, for me it was appropriate because until the D850 (dx camera d500) we never had the best AF system in mid to high megapixel general purpose camera. Again shoot with a d850 and compare that to any Sony bare the A9. For sure it does not have full frame coverage and eye AF. That is why the Z Af was better for me as I don't shoot birds in flight. But guess what the Sony's were great when they added eye, animal AF and timelapse (present since at least 7 years on Nikon cameras) But Nikon unfinished when they released there firmware update...

https://alphauniverse.com/stories/firmware-update-brings-time-lapse--real-time-eye-af--animal-eye-af-to-sony--7r-iii---7-iii/

[Super8]

57 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

And work in harsh tropical conditions with very hard light, high temperatures and monsoon rains. Until now zero shutdown or any malfunctions. From all the Nikon bodies this is my most preferred body, at worst I keep it in its cage even for photos As I prefer a little bit larger bodies. Because it serves me so well in photos also even when I worked on Film set as set photographer, shooting between it and d810, I had no problem thinking I was looking in an actual viewfinder.

 

 

 

Is that your footage?  Good work if so.

My prediction for Nikon is 4K60p 10bit internal.   120p external and full sensor readout RAW external.    They already have great AF in photo's and video.  They already have great color science and great glass. 

 

 

[Trek of Joy]

1 hour ago, Danyyyel said:

What, have you ever used a z6, I mean just hold it and looked not at those small pixelated display but its viewfinder. I mean, just this makes it a complete different experience. The day I just hold and looked at an A73, I said wtf is all the hype about this toy, do people hold these cameras, or they have to rig the hell out of it for it to be usable. My Z6 (even a little bit too small for me) is just a joy to use, even compared to full pro body like my D810 . I mean I can control nearly everything from my right hand and never leave the viewfinder. The IBIS and very very good video autofocus have people confused if I am shooting video or photo because with those two, I can nearly shoot without a tripod (needed for good pans)

And what about the image quality, great colors out of the box, great motion cadence, very nice internal codec.

 

 

I have used the Z6, before the big update, it was ok but nothing that would make me want to drop the a73 or a7r3 and buy into the Z-mount. And that's Nikon's problem, they're solid cameras, but solid isn't going to move the needle and get many people to buy into the system. They're losing market share fast and it doesn't look like they can slow the slide. Like Canon their initial offerings were underwhelming, and got significantly better with updates. But Canon pulled out all the stops with the R5/6 and generated a lot of excitement, Nikon not so much. Seems like they're still trying to not step on their DSLR's with their mirrorless lineup and they're not accelerating new model cycles when everyone else is. They're getting left behind.

The raw video update was a complete blunder and didn't help their cause at all. If it was going to be a couple hundred dollars and require you to ship them the camera, they should have been up front about it instead of teasing it for a year and a half then dropping the bomb. The mount also is closed so 3rd party support will be extremely limited, if the lens options work for you then fine, but compared to the E-mount its never going to be as comprehensive. They're also using Sony's sensors, there's really no reason for me to move to the Z-mount and give up a vastly superior selection of lenses with the E-mount for identical IQ. I do think its a great body in hand, Nikon absolutely nailed the ergos. The drunk comment was because of their lukewarm updates to the Z6/7, again if it works for you fine.

There really aren't any bad cameras today, all the current FF cameras produce a great image. That's why I laugh when people call one "more cinematic" than another when anything looking cinematic is all down to lighting, exposure and the grade. Everything looks like shit when you shoot under the mid-day sun and burn the skin highlights, its not the camera's fault. But I digress. Nikon is in the same boat as the L-mount, there's just not a compelling reason for a large part of the community to make the switch and buy into the system when you look at the competition. They were too late to the game. If one of those cameras offers something specific that suits your needs better, by all means get it and make magic. I'm not giving Sony a free pass, but I'm still buying the camera and will work around its flaws, just like every other camera I've owned.

Cheers

Chris

[Danyyyel]

4 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Is that your footage?  Good work if so.

My prediction for Nikon is 4K60p 10bit internal.   120p external and full sensor readout RAW external.    They already have great AF in photo's and video.  They already have great color science and great glass. 

 

 

Yes it is mine, I mean there are some grading in these shots, but nothing big. What people that don't understand skin tone (Worked a lot in hotel industry here and have my fare share of burned, pink, violet skin etc) when you put that under the blazing sun here it is brutal. I always say if the guy who said golden hour stayed here, he would say golden 20 minutes, so harsh is the light.

From the rumor it is expected to give 4k 60p, but I don't know for the rest. I sincerely hope that they at least give internal 10bit and log and higher bitrate with that. The best case scenario, if they actually want the z6 to still retain perhaps the best hybrid camera (Yes it is up there) is to give the full 6k sensor readout and at least burst, like 2-3 minutes 4k 120 fps because beyond all the overheating talk nowadays, I don't see it practical to shoot long period of 120fps footage because afterward it is a pain in editing. They have the sensor, very nice ergonomic, viewfinder and ergonomics, the color science, motion cadence etc... Just give full sensor RAW at least to 30 p. I do reportage for a very well known News network, so even where about 25 minutes. But my final aim is always narratives. And in narratives slowmotion is secondary.

I have other footage I have worked on, I should post, but I think on another treat. If I had time i would do some tutorial and experience on the z6, because I really like this camera and I can't understand the slack it gets. I mean, I am so fedup with those bias guys who give all type of excuse for Sony and will trash all the other cameras. Even if I don't use it, you can get FF RAW video with great AF, IBIS, viewfinder, rear touch screen etc for 2k body (including the $200 firmware) + 600 Atomos.

[Super8]

9 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

I have used the Z6, before the big update, it was ok but nothing that would make me want to drop the a73 or a7r3 and buy into the Z-mount.

This is weird because image quality and color should be a big issues for content creators that do what we do.   Apparently not for a lot of people.

Quote

Seems like they're still trying to not step on their DSLR's with their mirrorless lineup and they're not accelerating new model cycles when everyone else is. They're getting left behind.

More false information

Quote

The raw video update was a complete blunder and didn't help their cause at all. If it was going to be a couple hundred dollars and require you to ship them the camera, they should have been up front about it instead of teasing it for a year and a half then dropping the bomb.

The RAW update was messed up.  Nikon missed how they should have marketed that.  They were also late, very late.   I still don't know the quality upgrade you from Nikon RAW since it skips lines or whatever and it not a full sensor readout.

 

Quote

They were too late to the game.

They are not too late to the game.  This is another Sony You Tube brainwash.   You have GH5 users, Nikon DSLR users and a lot of other creators that are ready to jump to FF. 

Quote

I'm not giving Sony a free pass, but I'm still buying the camera and will work around its flaws, just like every other camera I've owned.

You kinda are giving them a free pass.  It human nature to do this for a brand you love.  But be honest, how do you fix Sony color issues with the A7S3 ?  The color issues seem to be worse than the previous models.

[Zeng]

28 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

 The mount also is closed so 3rd party support will be extremely limited, if the lens options work for you then fine, but compared to the E-mount its never going to be as comprehensive.

Well, one of the reason I like z-mount is that theoretically it's the only mount you could adapt any lens to. I mean it's the shortest flange distance of 16mm, and the widest diameter (55mm). Techart already has a sony e to z adapter that works. And Even Canon RF and Panasonic L mount could be adapted.

[ND64]

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

My prediction for Nikon is 4K60p 10bit internal

Very unlikely. Nikon tends to pay the least amount of money for license fees. 

[Trek of Joy]

26 minutes ago, Super8 said:

This is weird because image quality and color should be a big issues for content creators that do what we do.   Apparently not for a lot of people.

More false information

The RAW update was messed up.  Nikon missed how they should have marketed that.  They were also late, very late.   I still don't know the quality upgrade you from Nikon RAW since it skips lines or whatever and it not a full sensor readout.

 

They are not too late to the game.  This is another Sony You Tube brainwash.   You have GH5 users, Nikon DSLR users and a lot of other creators that are ready to jump to FF. 

You kinda are giving them a free pass.  It human nature to do this for a brand you love.  But be honest, how do you fix Sony color issues with the A7S3 ?  The color issues seem to be worse than the previous models.

I shoot with Canon, Fuji and Sony - I really don't care about the brand, just what gets the job done and what I enjoy shooting with. Colors are fine on all of them and they all need small tweaks to get the look I want. IQ is great with everything I shoot, it literally won't be any better by shooting with a Nikon, I'll just have fewer lenses to choose from. Colors are fine with the a7s3 as well. Your passive aggressive tone made me laugh.

Cheers

Chris

37 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

4k 120 fps

In the Z6? Not if they're reusing the current sensor. Not even close.

[Super8]

14 minutes ago, Eric Calabros said:

Very unlikely. Nikon tends to pay the least amount of money for license fees. 

Nikon never really upgraded items through firmware either. 

They already paid one for Pro Res RAW.   It kinda defeats the purpose of getting the Pro Res RAW license.

The market in 2020 is dictating 4K60P.  Nikon didn't follow the market with 4K 10bit external.   I don't follow your logic about Nikon's decision making process.   2018 said they were thinking differently.

[Trek of Joy]

31 minutes ago, Zeng said:

Well, one of the reason I like z-mount is that theoretically it's the only mount you could adapt any lens to. I mean it's the shortest flange distance of 16mm, and the widest diameter (55mm). Techart already has a sony e to z adapter that works. And Even Canon RF and Panasonic L mount could be adapted.

Will they function as well as E-mount adapters that already exist? Will speedboosters for all those lens mounts be made? Who knows since everything has to be reverse engineered? Plus there will be no Zeiss, Tamron or Sigma lenses for the Zed mount anytime soon. I'll stick with the known quantity for now and reassess in a couple years when their next gen cameras are out and the lens lineup is more comprehensive with (hopefully) 3rd party support.

I'm not buying into a system for what it may become at some undetermined point down the road - especially when I like the E-mount lens options available right now and most of the best have been around long enough to fall into really great prices on the used market.

Chris

[Super8]

30 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Plus there will be no Zeiss, Tamron or Sigma lenses for the Zed mount anytime soon. I'll stick with the known quantity for now and reassess in a couple years when their next gen cameras are out and the lens lineup is more comprehensive with (hopefully) 3rd party support.

Sigma does make lenses for the Z mount.  And reviews say they work great.

https://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/standard-lenses?sigma_format=7063&sigma_mount=12003

[BTM_Pix]

13 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Sigma does make lenses for the Z mount.  And reviews say they work great.

https://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/standard-lenses?sigma_format=7063&sigma_mount=12003

I'd be very interested in seeing any links you've got for the great reviews of any of these Sigma Z mount lenses.

Meanwhile, here is the Sigma CEO saying that they haven't decided whether they will actually make any.

Have I missed something ?