Geoff_L Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 18 minutes ago, Ashit Tandon said: Hmm.. The Sony actually looks as good if not better than the R5 in this comparison video Yes, I agree and, finally, with the overheating issue, we have an explanation of why canon skintones tend to the red 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethin Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 On 8/2/2020 at 8:27 PM, Geoff_L said: I had a z6 before my actual Panasonic S1. I believe, with the latest firmware update, the af is miles ahead than what it used to be. @Jordan Drake rates video AF very highly, and I came across comparisons with the A7iii, and the z6 is not extremely far from it (at least for my needs, which exclude eyes af, and also compared to my S1). For the codec, same thing, it punches higher than its weight. In fact, I am right now browsing "old" footages I took with it, and play with them in resolve to compare with my S1 10bit. The nikon flat profile, as frequently reported, is very good. Sure, as you point out, it is weak compared to other offerings, but it quite good. To be honest, as I browse my old footages, I find more pleasing images than with my S1. I don't know, despite the very robust specs of the S1, and the image quality, there is something in the Z6 image that I find lacking in the S1 (a bit of "soul" maybe). So yes, if nikon could raise the next Z models to the level of offering of the competition (codec and better AF like you said), it could be a beast. I forgot about the lenses, but the Z line-up is really good, and more interesting for me than the RF and L. Plus, as I shoot with tele, the 300pf and 500pf have no competition... Ps : the battery problem on the S1 drove me crazy, to the point I am gonna get rid of it (plus the overall bulk and the af, that I now need, and I did not back when I bought it), and i am contemplating going back to the Z6 of entering the Sony system. I shoot with the z6 every week. I can tell you that much improved or not, the autofocus is not good enough to use. I just did a shoot: 6 takes with presenter moving from wide shot to medium close up and none tracked focus property, and when it missed it focussed on the background. Tracking objects equally hit and miss. But hey I hear you on the feel of the footage. I owned and sold a gh5 partly for the same reason. A much more usable camera for video, but with worse results (at least for what I do). I seem to have a thing for buying cameras with shite af. I'm starting to get jobs that require it, so for me the z6ii is a make or break for me and nikon. Geoff_L 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethin Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 On 8/3/2020 at 12:48 AM, Super8 said: You are 100% correct. The Z6 is much better than what's portrayed on YouTube. People on the EOS don't know what they're missing. It's all marketing. This is what I hate about Sony marketing. It's to the point that it's false and hyped up. It's great for the Sony side but it takes down a company like Nikon. That's the dishonest part. Have people lie about the Z6 camera so it has a poor reputation. Nikon pushed the limits of video quality that we expected, no reason they won't do it again. I think we need to compare settings and bodies. Mine is so far away from being excellent it's not funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, gethin said: I think we need to compare settings and bodies. Mine is so far away from being excellent it's not funny. Sure we can compare settings. A few other love the camera and have no issue with Z6's AF. Danyyyel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 9 hours ago, zerocool22 said: + even if hollywood graders are able to turn it into something beautifull, it will take them a lot more time then grading something from arri. Time is money as well. Yep exactly, time is money. If you are just doing some pet project that is good but when you have to work on schedule more so on long form project it can become tedious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 4 hours ago, Trek of Joy said: Downloadable ALL-I footage here: Good video. Nice footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 29 minutes ago, Super8 said: Sure we can compare settings. A few other love the camera and have no issue with Z6's AF. I promise, I never intended to continue talking about the Z6 on this Sony thread, but I was doing a little video to show a bit my experience with the z6 and about autofocus, so I remember about a last year shoot during some games I did for a TV channel and then the second one was for a project I already posted about for a community farm I did for a friend. So in the first video its just a small piece where I am not even holding the camera and I just gave it to another friend and setting up another camera and they were just playing. It was with the older Nikon F 1.8 afs and at 1.8 to 2 and I was quite surpised with it because it is super shallow and moving fast. I left where he left the frame and it focus back and he moves in again but I can understand it does not focus again as he barely features, might be too close to focusing distance or could have changed the setting not too move too fast. The second one is like athletes running flat out at the camera and on the side with very busy background etc. Its not easy conditions as you can see there is people around me and in my field of view etc. Sometimes it was even raining and with dark skin (I am brown myself) people it is harder with white sky behind etc. For me those two are quite torture test and even the older running ones on the old sensor did very well for me. The olor is some lut I just slapped , one just contrasted and others are just flat out of the camera. I left all the imperfection so people can see I am not just like cherry picking shots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashit Tandon Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Does anyone know what the base ISO will be for SLOG2. I know for SLOG3 it is 640 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 22 minutes ago, Danyyyel said: I promise, I never intended to continue talking about the Z6 on this Sony thread, but I was doing a little video to show a bit my experience with the z6 and about autofocus, so I remember about a last year shoot during some games I did for a TV channel and then the second one was for a project I already posted about for a community farm I did for a friend. So in the first video its just a small piece where I am not even holding the camera and I just gave it to another friend and setting up another camera and they were just playing. It was with the older Nikon F 1.8 afs and at 1.8 to 2 and I was quite surpised with it because it is super shallow and moving fast. I left where he left the frame and it focus back and he moves in again but I can understand it does not focus again as he barely features, might be too close to focusing distance or could have changed the setting not too move too fast. The second one is like athletes running flat out at the camera and on the side with very busy background etc. Its not easy conditions as you can see there is people around me and in my field of view etc. Sometimes it was even raining and with dark skin (I am brown myself) people it is harder with white sky behind etc. For me those two are quite torture test and even the older running ones on the old sensor did very well for me. The olor is some lut I just slapped , one just contrasted and others are just flat out of the camera. I left all the imperfection so people can see I am not just like cherry picking shots What was the later footage shot at? The footage with the relay hand offs, not graded? Nice work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 1 hour ago, gethin said: I think we need to compare settings and bodies. Mine is so far away from being excellent it's not funny. I promise, I never intended to continue talking about the Z6 on this Sony thread, but I was doing a little video to show a bit my experience with the z6 and about autofocus, so I remember about a last year shoot during some games I did for a TV channel and then the second one was for a project I already posted about for a community farm I did for a friend. So in the first video its just a small piece where I am not even holding the camera and I just gave it to another friend and setting up another camera and they were just playing. It was with the older Nikon F 1.8 afs and at 1.8 to 2 and I was quite surpised with it because it is super shallow and moving fast. I left where he left the frame and it focus back and he moves in again but I can understand it does not focus again as he barely features, might be too close to focusing distance or could have changed the setting not too move too fast. The second one is like athletes running flat out at the camera and on the side with very busy background etc. Its not easy conditions as you can see there is people around me and in my field of view etc. Sometimes it was even raining and with dark skin (I am brown myself) people it is harder with white sky behind etc. For me those two are quite torture test and even the older running ones on the old sensor did very well for me. The olor is some lut I just slapped , one just contrasted and others are just flat out of the camera. I left all the imperfection so people can see I am not just like cherry picking shots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, Super8 said: What was the later footage shot at? The footage with the relay hand offs, not graded? Nice work. I duplicated the post, can you give me the timing. I mean they were all in flat and the slowmo was the 120 fps with the 24-70 f4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev7en Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 10 hours ago, ajay said: Just for fun, I took the side-by-side video clip from both cameras and did a little tweaking to get them a bit closer to each other. (See below) There's some truth to Canon's ability to produce a more pleasing look right out of camera but both cameras can certainly be adjusted to match. I have used Andrew's Pro Color adjustments in the A7III to produce "Canon Color" directly out of the camera by tweaking settings in-camera. That is one feature of Sony cameras that are often overlooked. You can tweak profiles to the nth degree. In current Sony mirrorless cameras however you can only do so much tweaking due to dynamic range limitations and 8-bit codecs. Where the differences typically exist between these consumer cameras and production cinema cameras boils down to dynamic range and how many stops of light you have available in the highlights and shadows. I am quite confident that the new A7SIII can be tweaked in-camera to produce many different "looks" straight out of camera and with better dynamic range and a 10-bit codec. I really love the colors of the R5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luizhmgoncalves Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Just downloaded the footage from that James Matthews video. Great footage by the way. The A7s iii is now a contender angainst other low priced cinema cameras. All the information you need to create a good color grading is there. Rich colors, shadow and highlight information. All packed inside a usable codec that is the h264 all-i 10bit. All the problems I had before with sony mirrorles footage are gone. Noise compression, banding, poor colors, artifacts, etc. I aways thought a good codec could turn these Sonys into something else, and here it is. Personaly I really liked the colors. Snowfun, Geoff CB and Vintage Jimothy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted August 7, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted August 7, 2020 Really doesn't look any better than the old 8bit A7S II to my eye. What am I missing?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanriverprod Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 You're missing the hype train. The colors still suck at Sony. Canon looks nice but now they add mindblowing features no one can use for any practical reasons but they add it to market to us crabs in a barrel while knowing these features can't harm their now slightly higher tier cameras which have settings people can actually use today for work. The cynicism from these companies would be laughable only if their customers weren't so gullible. Nezza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 A7S III colour science is certainly improved and offers a much better starting point for colour grading. Here are some samples matched to ARRI Alexa with minor adjustments, using "CineMatch" sensor matching algorithm, the A7S III sensor profile is still at beta stage. Snowfun, Juank, Geoff_L and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luizhmgoncalves Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Really doesn't look any better than the old 8bit A7S II to my eye. What am I missing?! I think that just looking to an already graded jpeg export is not going to reveal it. I was talking about my experience grading the files. There are much more color information in shadows and highlights. The guy with his bike in the air was really underexposed and I was able to push it up without looking mushy or like an alien. Scrubbing through those files into the timeline are really close to prores. I really had problems with banding and compression artifacts with the older Sony's. Don't see it on those files. I believe that in the hands of a good colorist it might bee amazing. And also with your tweeks in the color profiles we could achieve much better results. Vintage Jimothy, Geoff CB and Juank 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Collins Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 In the photography stills world nobody talks about color science. Nobody says Panasonics jpegs are better than Canon or Sonys. That is because people are shooting 12/14 bit raws and you get to choose exactly what colors you want. I sort of feel in a 10 bit world straight out of camera colors are simply less important because you get so much more leeway to create the colors that you desire. Of course there will be always be people who like to shoot jpegs or straight out of camera video but then you dont really need 10 bit at all. Geoff CB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanriverprod Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 people keep saying this that you can make whatever colors you want so through empirical data people who buy sony must just like crappier colors and this includes me as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 2 hours ago, luizhmgoncalves said: Just downloaded the footage from that James Matthews video. Great footage by the way. The A7s iii is now a contender angainst other low priced cinema cameras. All the information you need to create a good color grading is there. Rich colors, shadow and highlight information. All packed inside a usable codec that is the h264 all-i 10bit. All the problems I had before with sony mirrorles footage are gone. Noise compression, banding, poor colors, artifacts, etc. I aways thought a good codec could turn these Sonys into something else, and here it is. Personaly I really liked the colors. Everything except the skin tones look decent in those pictures. Those though need some work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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