My thoughts on the Canon EOS R5 8K monstrosity - 1TB footage per 50 minutes

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, zerocool22 said:

Looking forward to your shortfilm 🙂

Will it be shot in 10 second chunks in-between 10 minute tea breaks? 🙂

[Tim Sewell]

3 hours ago, wolf33d said:

If you want a fan and a camera to record 3 hours interview do not get a R5, what a joke.

Although surely one of the few genuine use cases right now for 8K would be precisely that as it would effectively give you 3 or 4 focal lengths in one shot for 1080 delivery.

[Video Hummus]

I’m a bit worried by the perceived dynamic range and possible RS issues in 4K modes (the modes I would use 95% of the time). Hopefully we will get some in-depth numbers and tests soon.

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, Responder said:

Andrew - I'm a bit confused honestly. I've been following your site for years (although this would be my first post), and I always value your opinions as you don't get free review copies from the manufacturers so you provide truly unbiased and raw opinions and feedback. I've also watched for years as you have (as we all have) been frustrated by Canon's past offerings and inability to create compelling products for the videographer.

Welcome to the forum.

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But to me, the Canon R5 truly satisfies all the marks. Yes, it can't go more than 20 min for continuous video, but in a practical world when using a ILC for video, many videographers are going to want to separate each scene/shot when considering composition, depth of field, focus, etc.

It ticks a lot of boxes on paper but it is precisely the fact it can't go for longer than 20 minutes in the highest quality video modes which excludes so many people.

Also if like me you will be using it for shorter continuous takes in-between shot set-up and composition, that's not to say the camera isn't still building up heat in-between takes when it is still switched on and supplying the live-view picture for composition.

So eventually the overheating problem might occur in a short recording too. We'll have to wait and see about this, but with the A6300 it was a problem. No excuses on a £4k pro camera for poor reliability or excluding so many usage cases, like interviews, live events, live music, etc.

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For live events - concerts and things that go over 20 min of record time, dedicated broadcasting and video-oriented (e.g. Cinema EOS) gear would be best

There are more things beyond just live events that need longer takes.

Documentaries for example are heavily edited but shots could roll on for a while to get the needed coverage.

Anything you don't control, may need longer.

Wildlife shoots - recording and waiting for the shot, if you trigger recording just as it happens, you've missed the crucial beginnings and build up to the shot.

Narrative - long continuous takes may usually be edited down dramatically afterwards, but sometimes when a take needs to be restarted the actors go straight away and the camera keeps rolling. Even on a student short film this is the case. You can't interrupt somebody's flow to save the camera from overheating.

Other examples - interviews, that goes without saying. And the majority of documentaries have a lot of interviews.

Netflix stuff - look at the Tiger King series - again it's heavily edited but these are cut from long continuous recordings of dialogue and intimate monologues, where nothing could be missed. Hours and hours of source footage!

Panasonic S1H is Netflix approved. I don't see how the R5 could be if it behaves like this.

Even music videos, if a band needs 5 takes in one continuous recording and the editor picks the best, that is going to pose issues on the R5.

Also, on multiple camera recordings with large coverage - you cannot start and stop all the cameras. You leave them running.

They also need to be in sync. Timecode. Very important. If one has to stop because it's overheating, that's trouble.

Finally, YouTube - around 70% would find a 20 or 30 min limit a real hassle. Long 20 min+ monologues are very common.

Indeed, if you are unlucky enough to have the camera reach a high temperature in any of these circumstances, a quick look at the recovery times is sobering reading. The limit after a lengthy and inconvenient rest is just 10 minutes of 4K recording and even less in 8K. The camera probably takes 30 minutes to return to ambient room temperature.

And this is at 23 degrees ambient.

If the shoot is a hot one you've basically got no chance of reliability or interruption free creativity.

This is a complete dealbreaker for a vast number of the EOS R5's target customers.

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Which brings me back to my confusion a bit.. you seem to be unhappy about the specs and/or limitations

I am not unhappy about the specs on paper.

I welcome RAW... Not so much 8K. Have you seen the file sizes BTW?

I welcome the 4K/120p definitely.

And it's great there is no crop, finally.

But none of this matters if you can't get the shot or it lets you down at a key moment!

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while I think Canon has finally delivered. Perhaps this is the Canon renaissance we've been waiting for?

In my view it is a complete mess.

They have traded reliability in order to put an 8K badge on the box!

Anyway, let's see how the EOS R6 performs and what the lower quality 4K modes are like on the EOS R5 in terms of overheating problems before completely writing it off.

[SteveV4D]

3 hours ago, Responder said:

 

But to me, the Canon R5 truly satisfies all the marks. Yes, it can't go more than 20 min for continuous video, but in a practical world when using a ILC for video, many videographers are going to want to separate each scene/shot when considering composition, depth of field, focus, etc. One example that comes to mind is a wedding videographer - they are not going to want to record 20 min of raw footage on an ILC - they will want to record quick cuts and key moments during the event, and the R5 specs satisfy these requirements above and beyond. For live events - concerts and things that go over 20 min of record time, dedicated broadcasting and video-oriented (e.g. Cinema EOS) gear would be best.

As someone who shoots loads of Weddings, I can tell you that more than 20 minute recording is a must for filming.  Yes, there are sections of the day where we grab small chunks, but Ceremony and Speeches are often needed in full.  Weddings are very tough on cameras.  I've hired a guy once with a Sony and his filming of the Ceremony was butchered by over heating.  

As for concerts and Corporate Events, you are right, there are other cameras, like the similar fullframe S1H, which although lacks a decent AF, does at least give us unlimited recording.  The Canon R5 will be picked up by some Video shooters who can work around the issues, but there will be many who can't.  So no, it doesn't satisfy all the marks, except those that fit your criteria and some others here.

[rawshooter]

The R5 is destined to become a b- or crash cam - but maybe not even that, because rigging it up in, let's say, a stunt car and then running out of time during the shoot because of its recording limit (and its general heat sensitivity) is not something that film productions will want to deal with.

In order to use it productively on a set or documentary/event shoot, you'd actually need 3-4 R5 bodies for quick swapping each time one of them has overheated (and to give the others enough time to completely cool off, which according to Canon's info sheet should be about one hour; maybe even bring a camping coolbox or small fridge to cool them down efficiently).

[Super8]

No interview is going to be stuck on the subject for 30 minutes straight.   You always have a second camera capturing a different angle.   The work around for the R5 recording limit is not that hard to do.

[rawshooter]

8 minutes ago, Super8 said:

No interview is going to be stuck on the subject for 30 minutes straight.   You always have a second camera capturing a different angle.   The work around for the R5 recording limit is not that hard to do.

It's not even 20 minutes. And subtract the time where the camera is being set up, tested, focus-pulled etc. And if have a second camera capturing different angles, then it will switch off after 20 minutes, too - and you would have to wait almost an hour until both cameras are sufficiently cooled down to record another 20 minutes. If you turn on the second camera later to get more time, you won't have double coverage for the beginning of your recording. 

A multi-cam setup even escalates the problem. And you don't want to let your interviewee wait because the camera needs a break of one hour.

[Andrew Reid]

19 minutes ago, Super8 said:

No interview is going to be stuck on the subject for 30 minutes straight.   You always have a second camera capturing a different angle.   The work around for the R5 recording limit is not that hard to do.

I don't agree at all. Even when you edit an interview down to 10 minutes, conversations can go on for much longer. To get the required information, the subject often has to be conversed with and prompted. Documentaries a case in point. The multiple cameras just makes the situation worse. If you have to keep stopping, restarting and syncing 3 or 4 cameras every 20 minutes, that is seriously distracting - and not just for the crew but for the subject as well.

When it comes to the edit all these files will be broken up from multiple cameras into 20 minute chunks and it makes the edit harder.

Canon probably realise all this - they still want pros to buy the Cinema EOS cams instead.

Even though the EOS R5 is £4000!

[Andrew Reid]

25 minutes ago, rawshooter said:

The R5 is destined to become a b- or crash cam - but maybe not even that, because rigging it up in, let's say, a stunt car and then running out of time during the shoot because of its recording limit (and its general heat sensitivity) is not something that film productions will want to deal with.

In order to use it productively on a set or documentary/event shoot, you'd actually need 3-4 R5 bodies for quick swapping each time one of them has overheated (and to give the others enough time to completely cool off, which according to Canon's info sheet should be about one hour; maybe even bring a camping coolbox or small fridge to cool them down efficiently).

Indeed, as a crash cam - it'll probably have to roll for a good 10-30 minutes before the action is initiated. There will be a point where it's out of reach for the operator, and has to be rolling. But the rest of the sequence might not be set up and ready to go yet. The crew can't be bothered to make sure the EOS R5 on set is the last to roll. They will just use a different model. Simple as that.

[SteveV4D]

31 minutes ago, Super8 said:

No interview is going to be stuck on the subject for 30 minutes straight.   You always have a second camera capturing a different angle.   The work around for the R5 recording limit is not that hard to do.

I've done rolling interviews, one after another for over an hour.  Plus I've done at least one interview that lasted nearly 30 mins due to various reasons.  But you're right, I can work around the R5 limitation.  I just use another camera. 😄

[ntblowz]

I got C200 & C100II for those long boring interviews, the R5 is for more exciting stuff!

[hijodeibn]

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

No interview is going to be stuck on the subject for 30 minutes straight.   You always have a second camera capturing a different angle.   The work around for the R5 recording limit is not that hard to do.

to be honest. I have never done an interview that lasted less than 1 hour, never happened to me.

[wolf33d]

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

In my view it is a complete mess.

They have traded reliability in order to put an 8K badge on the box!

 

You are too hard on them and I have a hard time understanding that much frustration. A 8K badge on the box? What about 4K no crop? 10 bit 422? 4K60 and 4K120 with best in class AF? Best FF IBIS on the market? Top level color science and top level ergonomic. 
You are omitting a lot of things. They did not trade reliability for a badge. They did what the world asked: best in class video and photo spec in a mirrorless body, period. Those are indeed more than best in class, and to achieve that some of the features have time limitations. 

Canon has been a joke and frustration for now many years. I welcome with a lot of positivity the great options they bring to the table today. They deserve a round of applause. 
 

[scotchtape]

It is amazing how many people cannot fathom needing a camera that can record "all day"... (Well, longer than 30 minutes at least).

"The clip is only on screen for a few seconds, why do you need more than 5 minutes record time" type thinking... Unbelievable.

I was excited for this release but hearing about the limitations, it feels like GM releases a Tesla level car with 50km range. Nice but I can't use this for work.

Hopefully Sony comes through.

 

[mkabi]

This is an excellent B-roll camera... If you want to record small file sizes and 8K resolutions.... what production are you even on??? Is the work you doing even worth it?

Get yourself a proper camera for that... you want a hybrid that does it all... get this... frick... all you need is an R6, right? Well this does that and more... so if you cannot afford to get memory cards.... and 20 min is too little... don’t look at this camera. Start looking at the R6. 

In my opinion, I would get this over R6 cause there is some future proofing on the camera itself... I pay one flat fee of $4000 and not worry about upgrading every 3 years (@ $2500 a pop). Use just 4K @ 60 (like most people here want) which it already has... and all you need to do is set it up in the menu... shoot... even docs can live with 1080p for now....When I need 8K in the future... I have it already... longer record times.... may be not, but in the future there would a C100 Mark 5 or 6 with that... and I can still use the R5 as a B-cam.

[Vintage Jimothy]

1 hour ago, scotchtape said:

It is amazing how many people cannot fathom needing a camera that can record "all day"... (Well, longer than 30 minutes at least).

"The clip is only on screen for a few seconds, why do you need more than 5 minutes record time" type thinking... Unbelievable.

I was excited for this release but hearing about the limitations, it feels like GM releases a Tesla level car with 50km range. Nice but I can't use this for work.

Hopefully Sony comes through.

 

Not at all, I absolutely get that some videographers will need a camera that's recording one file for an extended period of time. Especially anyone working in wedding videography. And in that regard, the Canon R5 clearly isn't the right fit for that sort of workflow or niche of filmmaker, which I'd say is a big bummer for anyone in that field of work that was looking forward to this camera. That said, by the same coin, not every videographer or filmmaker needs to have a camera recording non-stop. Which is also fine! 

I've personally been using a Panasonic G85 for two years now and it's served me well mostly. One reason I picked it up initially was because it didn't have recording limits for video files, unlike a lot of the alternatives I was looking at within a similar price range. And while that's certainly come in handy a few times, looking back on all of the work I've done in those two years, I rarely ever recorded footage continuously for 30 minutes or longer and the situations where I did are examples where I just as easily could've stopped recording for a bit and then started back up shortly thereafter without missing much of a beat. 

My biggest concern with the R5 personally is the hefty monetary threshold one will have to cross to not only purchase the camera and RF lenses, but also the media cards and readers to be able access the full potential of the camera. That and whatever the rolling shutter might be like. 

1 hour ago, mkabi said:

This is an excellent B-roll camera... If you want to record small file sizes and 8K resolutions.... what production are you even on??? Is the work you doing even worth it?

Get yourself a proper camera for that... you want a hybrid that does it all... get this... frick... all you need is an R6, right? Well this does that and more... so if you cannot afford to get memory cards.... and 20 min is too little... don’t look at this camera. Start looking at the R6. 

In my opinion, I would get this over R6 cause there is some future proofing on the camera itself... I pay one flat fee of $4000 and not worry about upgrading every 3 years (@ $2500 a pop). Use just 4K @ 60 (like most people here want) which it already has... and all you need to do is set it up in the menu... shoot... even docs can live with 1080p for now....When I need 8K in the future... I have it already... longer record times.... may be not, but in the future there would a C100 Mark 5 or 6 with that... and I can still use the R5 as a B-cam.

Yeah, this is exactly why I keep thinking back to the R5 more than any other potential motivator. This is some incredibly solid future proofing for most people and while the initial price of entry is a lot steeper than almost every other alternative I'm contemplating as a potential upgrade from my G85, I can't help but feel like I'd probably save money in the long run by just buying the R5 and sticking with it for an extended period of time, rather than buying several cameras all priced around $2000 each every couple of years. 

[alkali]

I do not understand why anyone would risk their professional reputation by shooting with a camera that needs to be pampered during the shoot.  Seems to be highly irresponsible to have to manage shooting time because of heat.  Similar to managing a shoot because you do not have enough media or enough batteries to cover the full event. 

The Canon C200B is available on B&H website for $3,999 brand new.  I know it is not full frame and does not shoot 4k120p, but seems like a much better choice for paid work, if you need 4k raw from Canon, over managing multiple R5 bodies or R5 and R6 mixtures.

[Yannick Willox]

Their smart engineers should have used a heatpipe solution that connects to the battery grip, so you’d have twice the time before overheating becomes an issue.

My bank account details are below.

[MrSMW]

So right now, based on what we know, would it be R5 or S1H?