Canon EOS R5 has serious overheating issues – in both 4K and 8K

[ade towell]

Sorry to sound like a stuck record but the micro hdmi makes using an external recorder an absolute no in my book. Even with a Smallrig cage and hdmi cable lock and being as careful as possible mine has broken on X-T3. I was only using it for monitoring purposes and could handle it cutting out now and again until it finally died, but if I was relying on the recording it is just not fit for purpose. They are the devils work. Why are Panasonic the only company who seem  to realise this and use full size hdmi

I would worry about that as much as the overheating. Too stressful

[Oliver Daniel]

1 hour ago, ade towell said:

Sorry to sound like a stuck record but the micro hdmi makes using an external recorder an absolute no in my book. Even with a Smallrig cage and hdmi cable lock and being as careful as possible mine has broken on X-T3. I was only using it for monitoring purposes and could handle it cutting out now and again until it finally died, but if I was relying on the recording it is just not fit for purpose. They are the devils work. Why are Panasonic the only company who seem  to realise this and use full size hdmi

I would worry about that as much as the overheating. Too stressful

Micro HDMI sucks indeed.

I have used it mostly successfully though and I'm sure there will be a very solid solution designed by someone, somewhere, at some point, if not now. 🤒 I'd honestly rather not deal with it but this is never a perfect world. 

I do think this whole cooling thing is deliberate segmentation - typical weird Canon behaviour but they have put pressure on other manufacturers to step it up even further.

I think I'll keep my pre-order in place but hold off until substantial real world results tell the true story.  EVA1 and GH5 still going strong!

[padam]

While everybody is criticising Canon for various things - which is questionable in practise, like: why would you ever need more than 4k30p to record for hours? Serious question here.

They should also criticise everybody else as well. A lot.
Why?
Because Canon really do not need to do anything better if they don't have any cameras that are comparable. They just don't, they seem to be at least one generation behind at this point without uncropped 4k60p 4k120p, etc. and still remain as full-on stills cameras, not go low on megapixels aka A7SIII.

When they actually  do, they might have exactly the same issues, except that they were also somewhat late in comparison.

And yes they are protecting their cinema line, but they also have them as options, they are getting more and more affordable, Blackmagic, etc. and people seem to loose sight of that.

When a stills camera has to be fully rigged up to have the appropriate battery life ND XLR and stuff, you've gotta ask: why not a C200 without dealing with all this shit? It might still need some things, but it's just a whole lot easier to use and realistically speaking, a 4K sensor is quite plenty already.

[SteveV4D]

29 minutes ago, padam said:

When a stills camera has to be fully rigged up to have the appropriate battery life ND XLR and stuff, you've gotta ask: why not a C200 without dealing with all this shit? 

On release the C200 was a disappointment to me, a choice of either 8 bit or RAW.  No 10 bit codec in between, which the majority buying it would have used on a day to day basis.  The C300 is where Canons cinema cameras get really useful, but with a bigger jump in price.  Not really comparable to say an S1H or even the A7sIII when it comes out. 

28 minutes ago, padam said:

While everybody is criticising Canon for various things 

Canon have only themselves to blame for this negative feedback.  They announced this camera months ago and allowed the hype to build up.  Sure, we all wondered about how they could pull of 8K, but given how reliable Canon cameras were in the past, there was always going to be some hope this would deliver with maybe only rolling shutter the single limitation.  After all, the S1H pulls of 6K for the most part.

Yes, the complaints are an overreaction to the recent R5 and R6 news, but this was inevitable.  Canon always seems to provoke strong feelings and expectations in any of their products.  Maybe stemming back from the 5D Mark II, maybe because their Cinema cameras are so well regarded.  Eventually it will all die down and those who want the camera will have one.  Some of those who say they won't buy it, will buy one anyway, and many others will happily stick to what they're shooting now, content that the R5 isn't the definitive mirrorless hybrid that knocks all other competition aside that some speculation had it to be.

30 minutes ago, padam said:

why would you ever need more than 4k30p to record for hours? Serious question 

I never shot 60p for hours, but certainly lomg enough in hot conditions where the R5 could be at risk to shut down.  

Its not as if when I do, I am starting from cold.  If the camera has been used for 3 hours on a consistent basis, if its been outdoors in the sun, or in car, even if I'm starting and stopping my recording, heat is building up.  My Pocket 4K can get pretty hot, even if I'm not using it, just by being out in the sun.  Will these things impact recordings, time will tell.  Until then, its just so much speculation until people get to use these cameras and report back.

[ajay]

I'm a 4k 120p snob. I'll admit it. Since using it, I can't go back. That's my primary mode I use for filming wildlife. When people say, if you want perfection (a camera that doesn't overheat) you need a cinema camera. Guess what? Your options for a camera that shoots 4k 120p are either the Zcam E2 (which I own) or going into major debt for a high-end cinema camera and the form-factor sucks.

Enter into the equation the Canon R5. It doesn't get more compelling. Small form factor, reasonably priced and it has animal eye detect autofocus. I was so stoked when this camera was announced.

Just last week I was filming a hummingbird nest at 4k 120p using the Zcam. It was 95F (35C) in the shade. I was able to run the Zcam off of external power and it worked like a champ for hours without overheating.

So you say, then just keep what you got. Fair enough. I might just do that depending now what Sony has to offer with the A7SIII, but what is/was so compelling about the R5 is the incredible autofocus for animals. I've watched a few clips at how well the R5 tracks animal eyes including birds. How they are able to do that is beyond me. It really is an amazing achievement.

Am I willing to invest in a camera system that overheats after 12 minutes of filming? Nope.

I have one on order but won't cancel it until production units are in the hands of reputable reviewers. Then we'll see.

[padam]

29 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

On release the C200 was a disappointment to me, a choice of either 8 bit or RAW.  No 10 bit codec in between, which the majority buying it would have used on a day to day basis.  The C300 is where Canons cinema cameras get really useful, but with a bigger jump in price.  Not really comparable to say an S1H or even the A7sIII when it comes out. 

Canon have only themselves to blame for this negative feedback.  They announced this camera months ago and allowed the hype to build up.  Sure, we all wondered about how they could pull of 8K, but given how reliable Canon cameras were in the past, there was always going to be some hope this would deliver with maybe only rolling shutter the single limitation.  After all, the S1H pulls of 6K for the most part.

Yes, the complaints are an overreaction to the recent R5 and R6 news, but this was inevitable.  Canon always seems to provoke strong feelings and expectations in any of their products.  Maybe stemming back from the 5D Mark II, maybe because their Cinema cameras are so well regarded.  Eventually it will all die down and those who want the camera will have one.  Some of those who say they won't buy it, will buy one anyway, and many others will happily stick to what they're shooting now, content that the R5 isn't the definitive mirrorless hybrid that knocks all other competition aside that some speculation had it to be.

I never shot 60p for hours, but certainly lomg enough in hot conditions where the R5 could be at risk to shut down.  

Its not as if when I do, I am starting from cold.  If the camera has been used for 3 hours on a consistent basis, if its been outdoors in the sun, or in car, even if I'm starting and stopping my recording, heat is building up.  My Pocket 4K can get pretty hot, even if I'm not using it, just by being out in the sun.  Will these things impact recordings, time will tell.  Until then, its just so much speculation until people get to use these cameras and report back.

I've yet to see a C200 user that is not raving about the camera for the most part. Not perfect with the codecs and stuff, but it is just really good in almost every way and the price has been dropped. A lot.

Canon is first to admit about when they cameras overheat and how.
Their representatives are laughing because they know that they are not really lagging behind in that area compared to the capabilities of that camera and it is just a huge upgrade over what they've had and other companies didn't make the same jump ahead.

The A7SIII could be the 4KFF camera for video for the moment. It will rely on using that external recorder, but that has its good points for sure.
However for stills, it is not on the same page and for video, that 1.6x 5.1K crop (with 60p) on the R5 provides a lot of flexibility, great for run and gun shooters.
Also, IBIS is important for a lot of people, Canon is looking to have the clear lead there as well with some strong RF lenses for good measure, they have equipped all their f/2.8 Pro zooms with IS, unlike Sony.

I think the previous A7S and A7SII cameras were a lot more special considering how the industry looked at that time, Canon had absolutely nothing at that point (besides the colour science, DPAF, familiar ergonomics and the EF lens system to go with it). Cropped 4K, no IBIS, DSLR form factor, etc. Now suddenly they have nearly everything, they did not start with a weak IBIS or crop factor or AF limitations or 8-bit codecs etc. etc.

This new A7SIII is still going to be great I'm sure, it is just not alone anymore and some people might have to skip it because of the low megapixel count or the lack of support for EF lenses, ergonomics or other things.

[gt3rs]

I'm not sure what people expected from a 4k $ camera that the main target are photographers. I bet that 90% of the sales goes to people that mostly do photo and just a bit of video.

So let see how many cameras can do 4k 120 fps with AF:
-C300 III  (11k $)
-R5 (4k $)

How many cameras can do 4k FF with or without AF:
- R5

How many 8k RAW:

-RED

- R5

8k with AF

- R5

At the moment nothing else on the market at any price not even for 100k $, I see the silly comparison with phones etc... but this is the first FF 4k 120fps ever and is kind of affordable. 

So yes it has 15min limit at 4k 120fps but I take that instead of the alternatives that does not exist. Maybe A7S III but if it has 12mpix is a video only device imo. 

People should get real, of course with the limitation is not a camera for everybody and is not even a camera target only at filmmaker (Cxx are) so it does not fit you need just move on but saying that is crippled etc.... is just silly. No photographer wants a camera with fan and as the main target are photographers they did not put a fan on it as they have dedicated C line with fan for the long takes scenarios.

 

I do mostly sport and action and have the 1Dx III, I normally need two cameras (for remote) and adding a R5 is almost a no brainer as is a great remote camera at 12 or 20fps, small and with a bonus 45mpix where I can crop a lot if needed (example ice hockey net cam) and give me more lightweight on gimbal and 4k 120fps with AF that for sport/action is really cool. If you would do long interview or very long take I would buy something else.
I will wait the more real world reviews and also to be able to play with the files 8k RAW and non and 4k oversampled and binned to real see with my eyes how is the quality and then probably buy one. 

 

My biggest wish would be that they were opengate as it would be even better for pulling pictures something that I do a lot out of the 5.5k raw of the 1Dx III, 8k opengate would be really good for me.

[SteveV4D]

How many hybrid mirrorless cameras out there offer superb AF, uncropped continuous recording 4K, with codecs that include 4K RAW (arguably more useful than 8K RAW to many users).   Answer none, but hey, you can record 8K RAW.  For a short bit.  What's the use of innovation if you don't need it, or worse can't use it because of the overheating.  How many will be using 8K RAW and what for?  

I'm not denying the wonders of the R5, it has pushed what is possible in a small mirrorless camera.  Congratulations and well done Canon.  120fps 4K.  Excellent.  Limited by its codec and the overheating, but still there.   Its a great step, and one I am sure will push others to do better.  Its good for the video industry.

I worry that other manufacturers will play the resolution war though.  Chasing 8K over functions that really matter to video users, but as long as the nerds are happy cos they have an 8K camera, even if they never use 8K; after all, it makes for great bragging.  Bit like S1H users saying their camera is Netflix approved, even though they have never shot or will likely to, film something for Netflix.

 

[SteveV4D]

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

How many cameras can do 4k FF with or without AF:
- R5

If you're talking without AF, the S1, the S1H.  Though it does have some AF, just not as good.

With AF, Sony cameras can do fullframe 4K.  AF isn't as good as Canon, but still usable to many.

And most can record for considerably longer than the R5.

Moving to resolutions above 4K.  Pocket 6K can do 6K RAW, up to 50fps.  Not 8K, but still 50fps, and continuous recording and RAW.  And half the cost.  Plenty of room to crop for any type of recording without the worry of shut down.  S1H gives the same, though without 50p.

I'd rather pair the Pocket 6K with the R6 and run both than invest in the R5.  Then you get the best of both.  

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

I'm not sure what people expected from a 4k $ camera that the main target are photographers. I bet that 90% of the sales goes to people that mostly do photo and just a bit of video.

I get the R5 is more dedicated to Photography.  I'm judging on its video functions perhaps unfairly, but then this is a forum more for video.  And I rarely shoot photos.  If you feel that the R5 isn't worth a proper discussion on the limitations of its video functions, I suggest you move on to the many Photography dedicated forums that are out there.

[gt3rs]

1 minute ago, SteveV4D said:

If you're talking without AF, the S1, the S1H.  Though it does have some AF, just not as good.

With AF, Sony cameras can do fullframe 4K.  AF isn't as good as Canon, but still usable to many.

And most can record for considerably longer than the R5.

Moving to resolutions above 4K.  Pocket 6K can do 6K RAW, up to 50fps.  Not 8K, but still 50fps, and continuous recording and RAW.  And half the cost.  Plenty of room to crop for any type of recording without the worry.  S1H gives the same, though without 50p.

I'd rather pair the Pocket 6K with the R6 and run both than invest in the R5.  Then you get the best of both.  

I get the R5 is more dedicated to Photography.  I'm judging on its video functions perhaps unfairly, but then this is a forum more for video.  And I rarely shoot photos.  If you feel that the R5 isn't worth a proper discussion on the limitations of its video functions, I suggest you move on to the many Photography dedicated forums that are out there.

Sorry I meant 4k FF 120fps.... not only 4k FF my bad 

[Nezza]

The R5 is currently in a league of its own (on paper) at that price point.

The issue will be real world usability and until I see *production* models tested by non-brand ambassadors the jury is out for me. 

It's 8K abilities are marketing brags only at this point. Even though the R5 is aimed at pros I'll bet very few will be using 8K as their default other than short tests. The storage requirements are insane, the vast majority won't have the space for 8K workflows.

Over to you Sony...

 

 

[gt3rs]

3 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

I suggest you move on to the many Photography dedicated forums that are out there.

Are you serious? maybe you should stop posting in a canon r5 thread if is not for your the camera. And if you don't care about the photo part why on earth you don't buy a real cinema camera? 

suggesting to somebody with more posts and reputation here than you to move out is very rude. 

[Andrew Reid]

4 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

Are you serious? maybe you should stop posting in a canon r5 thread if is not for your the camera. And if you don't care about the photo part why on earth you don't buy a real cinema camera? 

suggesting to somebody with more posts and reputation here than you to move out is very rude. 

Calm down gt3rs please.

The forum has just about become tranquil again after I removed the troublemakers. Don't become the next.

4 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Having pre-ordered both the R5 and R6 as a tiny deposit, while i decided to get them or not, I have to say as someone who make a living with video, so far I'm concerned. 

This post includes some negativity, so I just want to make it clear that having pre-ordered them for very specific reasons I want these cameras to work well.

 

What it looks like.

We can only speculate, but it looks like these cameras will be either transformational or a disaster depending on their use. 

I think both @Neumann Films and @Andrew Reid have good perspectives - this is how I see it. 

The R5 (and the R6) look like a marvel on paper - finally the hybrid that supposedly does everything and potentially makes creating professional video very, very liberating. Very well done Canon for waking up. 

But is it a kick in the balls? 

A couple of years back, I was using the A7SII and A6500 in my camera bag. They overheated twice (amongst many many shoots), and it was annoying as it stopped the shoot and made us go behind schedule. 

With 4k60p and 4k120 being a staple feature on many brand and music video shoots, the question is how many bursts can it handle on a fast paced shoot? I do think it will be mostly fine, as shots come in short bursts and there's gaps between setting up a new shot, the potential issue is still there. Although my EVA1 doesn't have DPAF, IBIS or a full frame - it doesn't even flinch on a shoot and I have no worries. Same with the GH5. The potential of overheating in the back of my mine is certainly not a worry i want to have. Especially with client money on the table. 

I think the issue is that when people are spending a few grand on a camera, with very expensive lenses and accessories, they expect it to work for most scenarios and not have to worry about the camera having a tantrum. It's one less camera to buy and carry if you wish to do longer form content like interviews. I see people saying "buy a C300". For many, it's just not realistic. 

For most things that are not very short bursts, the R6 looks like a complete write off. On paper, there's no chance that camera could keep up with multiple, consistent takes. 

Also for those expecting to shoot continuous 8k RAW, go and see your Doctor. 😉

 

Questions?

As some of you may know, having an external monitor at least on the hot shoe during a professional shoot is pretty much essential. Also, recording to an edit friendly codec like ProRes is sometimes a great necessity. External recording would be a fine "workaround", if you could still get the benefits of the EOS R bodies (as long as you have a HDMI lock) This will be the pressing questions for most professional shooters intending to use this system.

How long can it go in continuous bursts shooting 4k60? Someone with a body needs to test this. 

 

Usage

The R5 will be fine for a lot of things, but I think it will be very popular on big movies as a crash cam with that 8K RAW in such a small body.  It's very much a speciality mode that I'm sure will be used on many movie sets. 

The R6, I'm not so sure. 

There's other cameras out there (Zcam E2-M4 - £1300 camera with 4k160fps 10 bit), although nothing will match the R5 if overheating can be managed.

Let's hope the climax to this story is a good one.  

Tets, tests, tests. 

 

Nice perspective.

Yes there are two sides to the coin

On the one hand Canon pushed the envelope and finally gave us the specs we wanted.

On the other hand I wanted a reliable camera too, and there's no excuse for not putting a proper heat sink in there - it is a bit like Intel shipping their most powerful flagship CPU without one.

https://www.eoshd.com/news/heat-management-what-canon-can-learn-from-the-panasonic-s1h-and-sigma-fp/

The Sigma Fp and Panasonic S1H lead the way in that and show what's possible.

So a major oversight from Canon there.

I think there will be a fair bit of denial until the camera actually gives up during a shoot, then people will reconsider how practical it is to use.

We have to test it for ourselves at the end of the day.

If I can shoot a bunch of takes in the highest quality 4K modes no longer than 5 minutes each and keep going one after the other without heat build-up, I may like the camera more than I do at the moment!

I think it's worth waiting to see what the Sony A7S III is going to be like as well.

So I may not jump on a pre-order with the EOS R5.

Besides as @BTM_Pix pointed out the other day, it is about £1000 cheaper in Japan so may as well go there on holiday for one than pre-order in the UK.

[SteveV4D]

2 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

Are you serious? maybe you should stop posting in a canon r5 thread if is not for your the camera. And if you don't care about the photo part why on earth you don't buy a real cinema camera? 

suggesting to somebody with more posts and reputation here than you to move out is very rude. 

This is a topic on overheating in 4K and 8K video, which I am discussing.   

As for photos, I do have some clients asking for it.  Its rare, but it does happen.  I use my GH5 for such jobs and would welcome an upgrade to something better.  The R5 and R6 were on my radar for that reason.  R6 maybe if it gets a firmware upgrade.

I'm certainly not asking you to move out 🤣🤣, just that if you feel the R5 is valued more for its primary Photographic functions, you'd get more support and less bashing of the video issues in Photography forums.

[SteveV4D]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

Besides as @BTM_Pix pointed out the other day, it is about £1000 cheaper in Japan so may as well go there on holiday for one than pre-order in the UK.

Downside, there are some travel restrictions at the moment.  On the plus, flight costs are low for the moment, making it even more of a bargain to go.  For £1000 difference, I wouldn't hesitate, if I was after the R5.  Be like getting a free holiday with your camera.  Seems so silly the UK has such a high price, compared to some other Countries.  Its just encouraging grey imports.   

[gt3rs]

2 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

This is a topic on overheating in 4K and 8K video, which I am discussing.   

As for photos, I do have some clients asking for it.  Its rare, but it does happen.  I use my GH5 for such jobs and would welcome an upgrade to something better.  The R5 and R6 were on my radar for that reason.  R6 maybe if it gets a firmware upgrade.

I'm certainly not asking you to move out 🤣🤣, just that if you feel the R5 is valued more for its primary Photographic functions, you'd get more support and less bashing of the video issues in Photography forums.

I did and do tons of filming with 1Dx II before and now 1Dx III so why I should move to a photo forum. If you look in the 1Dx III thread there is tons of info that I provided on the camera and Resolve. I tend to join only threads on stuff that I know and use it. As I use the 1Dx III mostly in RAW I think I can provide info here.....  
Everybody is talking that RAW is unusable but I find the 5.5K RAW much better and faster to edit that 4k 265 10bit 4:2:2 but only a few here have used 4k 265 10bit 4:2:2 just to give an example....

[Snowfun]

Might take the R5 out later...

 

[SteveV4D]

Just now, gt3rs said:

I did and do tons of filming with 1Dx II before and now 1Dx III so why I should move to a photo forum. If you look in the 1Dx III thread there is tons of info that I provided on the camera and Resolve. I tend to join only threads on stuff that I know and use it. As I use the 1Dx III mostly in RAW I think I can provide info here.....  
Everybody is talking that RAW is unusable but I find the 5.5K RAW much better and faster to edit that 4k 265 10bit 4:2:2 but only a few here have used 4k 265 10bit 4:2:2 just to give an example....

Okay, but defending the R5 saying that it's primarily a photographers tool and that its video specs shouldn't be criticised because of it, goes against that most here are more interested in its video specs and that even Canon marketing places 8K at the top of the R5 specs list.  If Canon wants to boast the R5 video, we should at least debate the cons.  Its no different to discussing the cons of say the Pocket Cameras from Blackmagic or the S1H for its poor AF.  Or the many discussions on Sonys bad colour science and their own overheating issues in the past.  Canon shouldn't get a free pass because its offered 120fps 4K and 8K RAW.  

RAW is a lot easier to edit and I prefer it to H264 and H265 that are awful to edit.  Not impossible, but certainly not pleasurable. Its a shame the R6 didn't offer say 4K RAW or 5.5K RAW.  It would be more useful than 8K RAW to many.  But then it could impact the R5 sales.  And 1DX III too for that matter. 😉  

[Oliver Daniel]

14 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Calm down gt3rs please.

The forum has just about become tranquil again after I removed the troublemakers. Don't become the next.

Nice perspective.

Yes there are two sides to the coin

On the one hand Canon pushed the envelope and finally gave us the specs we wanted.

On the other hand I wanted a reliable camera too, and there's no excuse for not putting a proper heat sink in there - it is a bit like Intel shipping their most powerful flagship CPU without one.

https://www.eoshd.com/news/heat-management-what-canon-can-learn-from-the-panasonic-s1h-and-sigma-fp/

The Sigma Fp and Panasonic S1H lead the way in that and show what's possible.

So a major oversight from Canon there.

I think there will be a fair bit of denial until the camera actually gives up during a shoot, then people will reconsider how practical it is to use.

We have to test it for ourselves at the end of the day.

If I can shoot a bunch of takes in the highest quality 4K modes no longer than 5 minutes each and keep going one after the other without heat build-up, I may like the camera more than I do at the moment!

I think it's worth waiting to see what the Sony A7S III is going to be like as well.

So I may not jump on a pre-order with the EOS R5.

Besides as @BTM_Pix pointed out the other day, it is about £1000 cheaper in Japan so may as well go there on holiday for one than pre-order in the UK.

 

Correct.

Canon have a very very strong reputation with reliability, so with that in my mind, I just pressed the pre-order button. Then overheating gate happened. 

The pre-order for the R6 is on the verge of cancellation, with the R5 being a 50/50. 

I think I'll keep it in place until I've learnt how it handles with external recording to Ninja V. My pre-order hangs mostly on this. 

At the same time, I don't like the idea of having cameras doing important work that may have a tantrum at the most inconvenient moment. 

I'm holding out some hope as minus the limitation, it's my perfect camera on paper. 

A7SIII sounds interesting, but I expect it will be an external recording thing with 4k120fps having some time limitations. Maybe not. 

[SteveV4D]

Just now, Snowfun said:

Might take the R5 out later...

 

Canon should introduce local weather reports with a column dedicated to expected R5 runtime before overheating.  😄