Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 10, 2020 Super Members Share Posted July 10, 2020 11 hours ago, Emanuel said: (in the right time for our engineer? @BTM_Pix ; ) I'll be sitting this one out as I've no intention of spending £4K on anything that doesn't have an engine or four wheels for a goodly long time. There have been a number of people in the past that have used removable heat sinks on the rear of their (usually Sony) camera for those with tiltable screens such as this Something like that may help, not least because you've also removed the contact of the screen to the main body and I suspect running it on external power instead of the internal battery won't do it any harm either. But all of these sorts of solutions remind me very much of the payoff line at the end of a famous UK public information film from when I was a kid on how to mobilise the family to deal with a burst water pipe. Video Hummus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padam Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 42 minutes ago, jgharding said: The S1H second hand is a lot cheaper than this, you'll find them for 2700 USD or so. It has an internal fan, all anamorphic modes you could think of, VLOG. External recording for boosted settings, but plenty of good internal ones including a 6K mode for big plates. Excellent colour and DR, it's wonderfully usable. The only down sides are shit autofocus and the battery life could be better. The stills are amazing too. That's just not true, for stills, the S1H is much weaker than the EOS R5, the lenses aren't nearly as good, and it's a lot bigger. It's just not the right camera (or rather the right system) for most people, that's why it's depreciating so much. Canon has never said anywhere that they are going to design this camera for long record times, they are not shy to admit that it will have some limitations. They've put in the technology with the IBIS etc. and they've kept it as small (and believe it or not, as cheap) as possible. Could they have added cropped internal RAW recording modes among other things to make it more compelling for video then it already is or equip it with a more useful HDMI port? Yes, absolutely. Each have it's own uses and there is no perfect camera, whatever anyone says. So the bashing will continue until the end of time, especially from people who are using other cameras. But some people indicating this camera being "utter garbage" is still kind of funny. The ambassadors are fully on the hype train, no doubt, but for the most part, it seems quite justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 42 minutes ago, jgharding said: The S1H second hand is a lot cheaper than this, you'll find them for 2700 USD or so. It has an internal fan, all anamorphic modes you could think of, VLOG. External recording for boosted settings, but plenty of good internal ones including a 6K mode for big plates. Excellent colour and DR, it's wonderfully usable. The only down sides are shit autofocus and the battery life could be better. The stills are amazing too. It doesn't yet have raw recording because something is up behind the scenes, but it's designed to work as a pro camera, and is the model of how a hybrid camera should work, for me. If you want a balanced hybrid for professional use, it's the best all-round choice right now. If you want raw for cine-style use with a bigrig, there's the Sigma FP which is phenomenally specced. The new Canons look like more of the usual "we can't make this too good or no-one will buy our camcorders" rubbish from Canon. Same old same old, looks great on paper before it's released (cue ridiculous YouTuber wide mouth wide eye infantile thumbnails) and turns out to be hobbled in order to make you buy a more expensive model. They want you to buy a C300 MK iii. It's where all their great new tech is, including their own version of the Arri dual-gain architecture., Fuck em. Thats not cheaper than the r6. The r6 has much better stills capabilities, better and more varied native lens options, full frame 60p...oh and fantastic autofocus. Clog has great color and plenty of DR if you know what you are doing. There is a reason panasonic cameras aren't selling well. s1h is a niche product and certainly not a hybrid shooter. The sigma fp doesnt even have internal log and requires an external recorder just to get a useable recording option. They didn't fully think that one through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trek of Joy Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Obviously its not for everyone. At least we know the limitations going in. Remember after the a6300 overheating mess, when the a6500 was released and all the shills went to a Sony junket in Miami declaring there was no overheating, only to seriously backpedal with it turns out the camera had major issues? All that backpedaling with egg on their faces. I'd rather know in advance rather than find out after the camera is delivered. Obviously I'd prefer that to not be the case, but I'm more interested in FF 4k anyway, and how long do 120fps clips need to be? 10 seconds of raw footage is 50 seconds in a 24p timeline, and you'll only use a couple seconds of that in the edit. Test to see if it works with your shooting style. I think I'll be fine, if it doesn't work I'll pivot to the mythical a7s3. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: There have been a number of people in the past that have used removable heat sinks on the rear of their (usually Sony) camera for those with tiltable screens such as this They should have looked at what Sigma did with the fp and tried to do something similar. I believe the S1H has a vent with a fan but there isn’t actually any exposure to the internals as I think that cameras has a heatpipe and heatsink on the inside and the fan blows on the other side of the heat sink to cool it. So water or gunk could mess up the van but not get inside. I could be wrong on this. I don’t see any other way to water seal it otherwise. The camera manufactures need to start getting clever on how to cool things down. They could incorporate cheeky heatsink/heatpipe on the bottom of the camera, or a heatpipe that attaches to the 1/4-20 at the bottom so when you screw in a tripod or quick release heat can move from inside to outside (🧐 good opprotunity there for a weekend warrior with a CNC machine to cash in!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowfun Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: I'll be sitting this one out as I've no intention of spending £4K on anything that doesn't have an engine Add a water tank and you’ll have a steam engine... leslie, Katrikura and BTM_Pix 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 10, 2020 Super Members Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Video Hummus said: They should have looked at what Sigma did with the fp and tried to do something similar. Yeah, maybe they should have approached Sigma and swapped some AF tech for some cooling tech ! 2 hours ago, Video Hummus said: The camera manufactures need to start getting clever on how to cool things down. They could incorporate cheeky heatsink/heatpipe on the bottom of the camera, or a heatpipe that attaches to the 1/4-20 at the bottom so when you screw in a tripod or quick release heat can move from inside to outside (🧐 good opprotunity there for a weekend warrior with a CNC machine to cash in!). I think there could have been an opportunity for them to do something creative with a battery grip style accessory that mounted underneath the camera. Something like a removable/sliding section on the camera bottom plate which the cooling elements and fan in the base unit could then utilise to get at the internals whilst still sealing them to the outside world. That would suit both sides of the argument by not having to have something elaborate internally which many people might not need but also offering a factory solution for those who do want to use the more flammable features of the camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, padam said: That's just not true, for stills, the S1H is much weaker than the EOS R5, the lenses aren't nearly as good, and it's a lot bigger. It's just not the right camera (or rather the right system) for most people, that's why it's depreciating so much. I think much weaker is a stretch, it has more than enough megapixels for most tasks, excellent DR and exceptional low light ability. The 50mm 1.4 S lens is as good if not better than the similar Canon offering. It may not be the right camera for "most people", but I stand by stating it's the best hybrid for professional day to day use. The point is the S1H actually does balance the features. That means losing certain things and gaining others. For most of it you get the near to best of both worlds. Most people now are obsessed with spec sheet Top Trumps, but the best cameras I've used, the ones that stay around the longest, combine a great image with good QOL features. The ones that don't last often have crazy headline specs (see 8K raw) but have annoying bugs that make me sell them (see overheating, no anamorphic modes etc etc) Weight wise, the S1H is easily light enough to handhold, or you can rig it up for cinema use. I used to have a Red Scarlet, now THAT was heavy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, jgharding said: I think much weaker is a stretch, it has more than enough megapixels for most tasks, excellent DR and exceptional low light ability. The 50mm 1.4 S lens is as good if not better than the similar Canon offering. It may not be the right camera for "most people", but I stand by stating it's the best hybrid for professional day to day use. The point is the S1H actually does balance the features. That means losing certain things and gaining others. For most of it you get the near to best of both worlds. Some people will never consider anything but Canon/Nikon to be a competent photography tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoogieKnight Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, jgharding said: I think much weaker is a stretch, it has more than enough megapixels for most tasks, excellent DR and exceptional low light ability. The 50mm 1.4 S lens is as good if not better than the similar Canon offering. It may not be the right camera for "most people", but I stand by stating it's the best hybrid for professional day to day use. The point is the S1H actually does balance the features. That means losing certain things and gaining others. For most of it you get the near to best of both worlds. The 50 is great but that's pretty much it if you want native. No portrait lens (the 85mm RF is absolutely remarkable), no OIS on the zooms (other than the 70-200s), no F2.8 at the wide end etc. etc. I've got no problem with the Panasonic glass but the RF range is on another level. Then there's the eye AF that just doesn't work a lot of the time and I say this from [painful] personal experience across a range of shoots. I recently tried an Eos R and the AF for stills was on another level to my S1. Let's not discuss for video... I'm delighted with the still that come out of my S1 but the Eos R (and RF glass) has many, many advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 And to be clear, if I were JUST a photographer, no I wouldn't buy an S1H. But the R5 headline spec is clearly "8K video", and it's in such a way as to be a bit silly. 1 hour ago, Yurolov said: The sigma fp doesnt even have internal log and requires an external recorder just to get a useable recording option. They didn't fully think that one through. Yeah the FP definitely needs some firmware updates. That's why I don't own one, I think it needs to mature a little. 1 minute ago, TheBoogieKnight said: The 50 is great but that's pretty much it if you want native. No portrait lens (the 85mm RF is absolutely remarkable), no OIS on the zooms (other than the 70-200s), no F2.8 at the wide end etc. etc. I've got no problem with the Panasonic glass but the RF range is on another level. Then there's the eye AF that just doesn't work a lot of the time and I say this from [painful] personal experience across a range of shoots. I recently tried an Eos R and the AF for stills was on another level to my S1. Let's not discuss for video... I'm delighted with the still that come out of my S1 but the Eos R (and RF glass) has many, many advantages. Yes they definitely have a certain edge for still photography, but TBH I wouldn't buy an S1H if I were just a photographer. I think it still maintains the best balance for a video focused body that is small and does great stills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rar Jay Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 R5 seems a good trade off between body size and video recording capability. I think its great to be able to shoot such high spec video in a compact easy to handle system. I shoot travel/active/lifestyle stock footage and rarely need more than 1 or 2 minute clips. Also like that R5 seems to have Panasonic level IBIS. For video work, long takes and on-set, I'd use a suitable camera with cooling fans. I think those R5 recording times are expected and perfectly acceptable padam and currensheldon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoogieKnight Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Rar Jay said: R5 seems a good trade off between body size and video recording capability. I think its great to be able to shoot such high spec video in a compact easy to handle system. I shoot travel/active/lifestyle stock footage and rarely need more than 1 or 2 minute clips. Also like that R5 seems to have Panasonic level IBIS. For video work, long takes and on-set, I'd use a suitable camera with cooling fans. I think those R5 recording times are expected and perfectly acceptable I don't really have an issue with limited times as long as I have another body. It's the cooling down time and limited recording time afterwards that's the real kicker. A ten minute cool down to get 3 minutes recording isn't great. Neufeldt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currensheldon Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 The only way the overheating is a big issue is if it consistently overheats in 4K 24-60fps in 10-bit 422. Otherwise, it's a non-issue as it's a tiny body for 8k raw or 4k 120fps. Who is shooting 4k 120fps for longer than a few minutes (and even that seems insanely long)? Only Ang Lee and nobody liked that. We like to think camera companies cripple their cameras to spite us or something, but there are obviously some technical limitations to processing power, resolution, and frame rates. Panasonic gave us all sorts of internal codecs, 6k, good frame rates, amazing IBIS, good battery life, no record limits, and NO overheating and we all cry "It's TOO BIG!!" or "The video AF SUCKS!" Canon tries to stuff all of their best tech into a smaller body, gives us the MAIN big things we ask for (10-bit 4k up to 60fps with great AF and amazing IBIS), and then threw in some serious goodies like 8k raw and 120fps in 4k but mentions "hey, might overheat because we didn't want tot make a 1200 gram camera like Panasonic," and we LOSE OUR MINDS!! How. Dare. They? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajay Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 For what it's worth, one early-on reviewer of the R5 responded to my question about the camera overheating and stated that during the time they were able to test the camera they had no heating issues. No warnings. No problems. The reviewer also stated that they will be testing this issue with a production camera as soon as they can get one and will do a complete and honest review once in-hand. Could it be an issue with preproduction cameras only? Could it be that it's only an issue in extreme heat? Hard to know for sure but I think we do owe it to Canon to not prejudge the camera beforehand. Seems like a reasonable approach to this issue. PaulUsher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 18 hours ago, Neumann Films said: Here is the work that I will be using it for that it makes perfect sense to utilize: - Short Films - Music Videos - Commercials - Stock Footage - Pro Stills - BTS - YouTube videos I previously used a RED Helium for this work and just sold it for this. That saved me $25,000. I don’t do weddings or corporate stuff so it’s not an issue for me. You know how you overcome little issues like overheating? You practice and use the camera enough to know it’s quirks and then you shoot/plan around them. Thank you being the voice of reason and probably one of the only people posting who shoots as a full time job. Canon pulls out all the stops and give people what they want with some reasonable caveats and it’s not good enough. You just can’t win in this game. hijodeibn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveV4D Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 49 minutes ago, Logan said: Thank you being the voice of reason and probably one of the only people posting who shoots as a full time job. Canon pulls out all the stops and give people what they want with some reasonable caveats and it’s not good enough. You just can’t win in this game. I think you'll find others here shoot as a fulltime job too. 😉 Canon hasn't given people want they want. I don't recall people asking for 8K RAW. In fact, 4K RAW is arguably needed far more than 8K RAW. I don't recall peole asking for clip limits, overheating issues. In fact, Canon users have always spoken against Sony cameras for overheating, praising Canon for not chasing gimmicks whilst taking their time and releasing a reliable camera to use. Very few asked to lose that for the sake of 8K. I'm not denying this is an innovative camera that is pushing what technology can do. I've no doubt it will be a great tool for photographers who are also shooting the odd video and videographers who are primarily shooting short clips. Most cameras has issues of some sort or another. I use the Pocket 4K a lot. No flip screen, no IBIS, no AF to speak of and no weather sealant. Its not a perfect camera. Neither is the R5. PaulUsher, ajay and ade towell 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 It would have been more honest to post numbers at least above 25C. Even id I live in a tropical island I don't think think this camera will work more than 10 -15 minutes in most production environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, SteveV4D said: I think you'll find others here shoot as a fulltime job too. 😉 Canon hasn't given people want they want. I don't recall people asking for 8K RAW. In fact, 4K RAW is arguably needed far more than 8K RAW. I don't recall peole asking for clip limits, overheating issues. In fact, Canon users have always spoken against Sony cameras for overheating, praising Canon for not chasing gimmicks whilst taking their time and releasing a reliable camera to use. Very few asked to lose that for the sake of 8K. I'm not denying this is an innovative camera that is pushing what technology can do. I've no doubt it will be a great tool for photographers who are also shooting the odd video and videographers who are primarily shooting short clips. Most cameras has issues of some sort or another. I use the Pocket 4K a lot. No flip screen, no IBIS, no AF to speak of and no weather sealant. Its not a perfect camera. Neither is the R5. My statement on working professionals was more hyperbole than anything. My point isn’t that Canon made a perfect camera at all, but that it’s laughable how much people are finding *wrong* with it as opposed to all the huge positives. I would kill for a S1H level camera from Canon, but I doubt we will get it. Look at previous cameras in relation to the R5/R6 and I’d say they are very functional pieces of *equipment* when you use them in the proper workflows. My biggest takeaway from all of this is that there are *always* trade offs. The S1H would be my perfect camera if it had real AF functionality. The XT4 would be my perfect camera if it had unlimited record times and internal 422 10bit. The Canons would be perfect if they had unlimited recording and no overheating. 🤷♂️ hijodeibn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumann Films Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, SteveV4D said: I think you'll find others here shoot as a fulltime job too. 😉 Canon hasn't given people want they want. I don't recall people asking for 8K RAW. (raises hand) I did. I realize it’s not for everyone but I’m extremely happy with what they did. It’s legitimately my dream camera for this moment in time. Do with that what you will, my point is...Canon has given SOME people what they want. Just not everyone, but no one ever does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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