rawshooter Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I mean, I somehow can follow Canon's thinking - they're caught between a design/engineering/marketing dilemma of making the camera a big body with a fan like the S1H or the current body with the overheating, and then probably opt for the latter arguing that 90% of people will buy the camera for stills, that the smaller design cuts production costs, that professional video shooters should buy Cinema EOS cameras or the RED Komodo, yadayadayada.... But I really think that the camera industry is further digging itself into its own grave with such priorities. Like the car industry that rather pulls software tricks to pass environmental tests and sell its legacy tech, instead of radically innovating and building electric cars. Or like the film industry that moves its premieres into 2021 and 2022 instead of switching to streaming. So let's see how will follow Olympus. We might be surprised. And the R5/R6 fiasco needs some name ending with "gate". "Canongate"? "Heatgate"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noone Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Well Canon does EVIL (electronic viewfinder, interchangeable lens) better than any one. Maybe the road to hell is actually paved with Canon cameras rather than good intentions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 4K pixel binning still got more detail than 1080P upscaled on my 4K monitor APSC mode is the way to go for 4K60P on R5 for best quality. Guess that sigma 18-35 still have some use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Canon are done for video at that price. But for some hybrid shooters they still might justify the purchase somehow. Some people don't know enough to be able to differentiate or know the difference between binned and oversampled. Mainly because they don't have a reference. I think we need more testing before we can say for sure. But it looks like junk for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 44 minutes ago, rawshooter said: Or like the film industry that moves its premieres into 2021 and 2022 instead of switching to streaming. Off topic but I couldn't disagree more. You have to segment your product if it is a luxury product, unless you want it to join the ranks of dross that is being streamed. People like going to the cinemas. It is a communal experience. It won't stop. The real lack of innovation is the fact that they keep pumping comic book movies out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Yurolov said: People like going to the cinemas. It is a communal experience. It won't stop. The real lack of innovation is the fact that they keep pumping comic book movies out. This is one of the reasons I haven’t even stepped foot in a cinema. It’s just comic book movie after another. Last time I went was to see Dunkirk. Seems to me a lot of movies have gone the way of electronics or fast food...just consumer mass market trash with very little substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkabi Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 47 minutes ago, Video Hummus said: This is one of the reasons I haven’t even stepped foot in a cinema. It’s just comic book movie after another. Last time I went was to see Dunkirk. Seems to me a lot of movies have gone the way of electronics or fast food...just consumer mass market trash with very little substance. You need to stop watching stuff that advertise comic book movies. There are plenty of other movies, reality is movie theatres want everybody's money - not just people that want to see comic book movies. So, naturally, they will show other movies and examples of movies I saw at the cinema: Lady Bird, Get Out... zerocool22 and hijodeibn 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 49 minutes ago, mkabi said: You need to stop watching stuff that advertise comic book movies. I saw those movies. What’s your point? They advertise comic books movies everywhere. There has been so many in the last three years it’s nauseating. Some are good. Most are more loosely woven together than Tom & Jerry cartoons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 I love it these cameras aren’t even out yet the EOSHD jury is already out and the tribe has spoken: “Canon are done for video” ” R5/R6 are lemons” While I agree the overheating issues are a growing concern and may affect sales, I still think both cameras will be a hit and the IQ in the HQ modes should be amazing. It seems that in order to overcome the overheating issues, Sony had to abandon oversampling, quad-bayer sensor and who knows what else.. always some kind of compromise with small hybrid cameras! Anyways, I think we still have to wait for more in-depth real world tests and official A7S3 announcement before making such bold statements as the above.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Video Hummus said: I saw those movies. What’s your point? They advertise comic books movies everywhere. There has been so many in the last three years it’s nauseating. Some are good. Most are more loosely woven together than Tom & Jerry cartoons. I don't know blockbusters have been around for a long time so have comic books. I think the comic book films are a lot of fun, some better than others. Lots of "smarter" films come out every year. There are lots of indie cinemas near where I live but I guess that probably isn't the case everywhere. I am rarely dissapointed by the indie films that end up making it to the theaters. Though I won't lie I am a huge fan of large budget action films. They are rarely good but when they are its something special, at least for me. mkabi and SteveV4D 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezza Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 42 minutes ago, Django said: I love it these cameras aren’t even out yet the EOSHD jury is already out and the tribe has spoken: “Canon are done for video” ” R5/R6 are lemons” While I agree the overheating issues are a growing concern and may affect sales, I still think both cameras will be a hit and the IQ in the HQ modes should be amazing. It seems that in order to overcome the overheating issues, Sony had to abandon oversampling, quad-bayer sensor and who knows what else.. always some kind of compromise with small hybrid cameras! Anyways, I think we still have to wait for more in-depth real world tests and official A7S3 announcement before making such bold statements as the above.. Quite. Declaring the new Canons as ‘DOA’ on the basis of one ‘review’ of a pre production model that lacked any sort of detail is a bit silly really. There absolutely could well be issues with these cameras but declaring them useless without the proper testing of *production* models is premature to say the least. People bashing without hard evidence and for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noone Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Django said: I love it these cameras aren’t even out yet the EOSHD jury is already out and the tribe has spoken: “Canon are done for video” ” R5/R6 are lemons” While I agree the overheating issues are a growing concern and may affect sales, I still think both cameras will be a hit and the IQ in the HQ modes should be amazing. It seems that in order to overcome the overheating issues, Sony had to abandon oversampling, quad-bayer sensor and who knows what else.. always some kind of compromise with small hybrid cameras! Anyways, I think we still have to wait for more in-depth real world tests and official A7S3 announcement before making such bold statements as the above.. They will sell like (sorry) hotcakes to stills photographers but I think for video, people might be much more cautious. I know a couple of people who intend getting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 ..but it’s the video side that’s quite the breakthrough for Canon shooters (overheating aside). If i were a stills only shooter, I’m not quite sure I’d feel the urge to upgrade from an EOS R/RP. Canon are clearly aiming R5/R6 to hybrid shooters and EOS Cinema line users such as myself looking for B-cams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveV4D Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 5 hours ago, Video Hummus said: I saw those movies. What’s your point? They advertise comic books movies everywhere. There has been so many in the last three years it’s nauseating. Some are good. Most are more loosely woven together than Tom & Jerry cartoons. Popular movies will always get more money and more advertising. Comic Book movies are popular with the general movie going audience. That is not the fault of the people who make them. Hollywood wants to make money and comic book movies with some exceptions do that. However there are many other movies released each year and whilst they may not get the huge budgets and excessive marketing, they balance out the comic book stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveV4D Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Canon is apparently DOA already and we haven't even seen rolling shutter tests. 😁 I agree, we should wait and see the results when the final camera is released. We need more than a few reviews before final judgement can be passed. If its as bad as suggested, I am trying to see how anyone would seek to buy these cameras for Professional use. The 8K and 120fps had created a lot of hype, which has built up since these cameras were announced at the start of the year. I guess what we are seeing is the down after the high hopes people had. Once the hype and over reactions fade, it'll be interesting to see where the final views of this camera lie. How many will buy it and what their experiences with it will be like. I am sure the 8K RAW and 120fps in a Canon body will be too big a lure for many and they will struggle through the problems and produce some great content if they have the talent. Sony endured many jibes over their overheating, often from Canon users. Now the shoe will be on the other foot. ade towell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noone Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 32 minutes ago, Django said: ..but it’s the video side that’s quite the breakthrough for Canon shooters (overheating aside). If i were a stills only shooter, I’m not quite sure I’d feel the urge to upgrade from an EOS R/RP. Canon are clearly aiming R5/R6 to hybrid shooters and EOS Cinema line users such as myself looking for B-cams. I know it seems quite the opposite of how it should be. Many of those getting them WILL be stills shooters who are increasingly doing video but I do think until real people start using them and complaining or not, there will be a massive screeching halt in sales (to what they would otherwise have been but will still be plenty sold to guinea pigs, Beta testers and the "I just want them, I do not care about video" brigade). IF as I expect, they are a fail due to heat for video, they will still be very good stills cameras much like the Sony and Nikon and Panasonic mirrorless FF cameras. RP is quite a bit lower all around (but I still actually like it and considered trying to find a way to get one) and the R is the test bed. I think Canon just wants to sell them to anyone who can pay for one and does not really care WHY you want it. sanveer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, noone said: I think Canon just wants to sell them to anyone who can pay for one and does not really care WHY you want it. Cmon dude, every single company thinks like that. Especially electronics. You are delusional if you think you’re favorite company really cares about why you buy their gear. They spec a model, price it, market it and pray for the best in terms of sales. Nothing more nothing less. Anyways only time will tell if R5/R6 are a hit or a fluke. Surely some sales will be affected by the overheating, I am certainly going to wait for more extensive real-world stress tests before considering ordering one. But again calling them a fiasco, saying Canon are done sounds extremely premature and indeed bashing for the sake of it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Django said: ..but it’s the video side that’s quite the breakthrough for Canon shooters (overheating aside). If i were a stills only shooter, I’m not quite sure I’d feel the urge to upgrade from an EOS R/RP. Canon are clearly aiming R5/R6 to hybrid shooters and EOS Cinema line users such as myself looking for B-cams. Imo the biggest market is the 5d iii and iv upgrade... 45mpix, ibis, 20fps, 12fps mechanical, smarter af and mirrorless. For sport and wildlife (bif) on paper is really good. 45 mpix is also a good bump for landscape/portrait.... I’m really intereseted as second camera as remote and b cam for video but I will wait for more reports on the video side. As a cam for video it seems a big risks unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 True those are some pretty significant upgrades for stills shooting and levels things much more with Sony's higher-end offerings. I'm being very cautious as well as I simply can't have a camera that bricks on me under any circumstances (which certainly rules out R6). Looks like 1DX3 isn't such a bad investment after all as it does offer FF oversampled 10-bit 4:2:2 4K & 5.5K RAW without any overheating issues. Still the most reliable pro hybrid from Canon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted July 25, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted July 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Nezza said: There absolutely could well be issues with these cameras but declaring them useless without the proper testing of *production* models is premature to say the least. People bashing without hard evidence and for the sake of it. The production models aren't going to fundamentally change. It isn't a Firmware Optimisation issue. You will not lower the heat generated by tweaking the source code. Outputting 8K sensor readout, processing that to 10bit 422 with a CPU not adequately backed onto a copper heat sink and heat pipe, no fan, sealed body, poorly conducting materials, probably far from the latest silicon process node (7nm) used to make the CPU and multiple sources of heat compacted together - big sensor, fast RAM, very fast CFExpress memory (which is also capable of thermal throttling). It's like saying... my laptop gets hot in games so maybe updating Windows will help. Camera design is fixed, it's done. Besides the pre-production model is but a few weeks behind the final retail camera and 99.9% the same even at the firmware level. There is not the time to fix it before release. It needs a complete redesign of the internal hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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