Administrators Andrew Reid Posted July 9, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted July 9, 2020 Did I miss something and the 4K/24p can have oversampling turned off? Because it doesn't look like that's the case. The non-oversampled pixel binning modes are reserved for achieving 4K/60p and 4K/120fps slow-mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajay Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I side with Andrew on this. Yes, the technology packed into this camera is amazing but the overheating issue and enormous file size for 4k 120p is a real problem. About 80% of what I shoot is 4k 120p and those two issues have me cringing...a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mgee Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 @Andrew Ok. I just wanted to clarify your statement of why a 8k camera sensor inside a mobile phone phone can withstand overheating but not one from a fullframe camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Did I miss something and the 4K/24p can have oversampling turned off? Because it doesn't look like that's the case. The non-oversampled pixel binning modes are reserved for achieving 4K/60p and 4K/120fps slow-mo It seems that there is an HQ mode and you can have it on or off and it changes from oversampling to binning. To be confirmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkenboom Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I only briefly read the article, but from my understanding most issue's (like bitrate) can be solved with new firmware. The overheating is harder to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Young Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Did I miss something and the 4K/24p can have oversampling turned off? Because it doesn't look like that's the case. The non-oversampled pixel binning modes are reserved for achieving 4K/60p and 4K/120fps slow-mo I think it’s possible to turn it off in 4K 24p as they’ve shown videos of the display where you actively have to turn it on in 24p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcio Kabke Pinheiro Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said: Surely you should get a better understanding of how CPUs and hardware H.265 encoders work. The H.265 encoder applies the same complex compression formula to the same number of pixels, be it with 8K in a smartphone or 8K in something else. H.265 is basically an iPhone codec. It isn't ProRes! It remains a possibility that the EOS R5 sensor is the limitation, as a hot sensor has greatly increased readout noise. But usually the mainboard LSI, RAM and CPU and the hottest and most power hungry areas in a mirrorless camera. Probably economy of scale, integration and silicon process node. Afaik, all the imaging processing and encoding in smartphone chips are optimized and embedded in the processor. This, combined with the sheer volume of smartphone sales (a thing that cameras does not have anymore - dilute the chipset costs with a very large model base) and much more modern and mature manufacturing processes (the Snapdragon 865 of that phone is made in a 7nm process, somewhere I read that camera companies still use processes from 10 years ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Young Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I remember a video where Potatojet puts a whole lot of cameras in a preheated incubator to see how fast they overheat when recording 4K. Funnily enough the Canon 90d just keeps going and going, indefinitely, only with breaks to repress the record button every half hour. This cheap ass camera is thus less prone to let you down on your shoot making you look like an idiot. But then again it doesn’t shoot 8K, nor does it shoot 10bit 422 and it lacks IBIS. But I has really good rolling shutter performance in 4K and very good autofocus. I know which camera I would rather bring on a paid assignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, ajay said: I side with Andrew on this. Yes, the technology packed into this camera is amazing but the overheating issue and enormous file size for 4k 120p is a real problem. About 80% of what I shoot is 4k 120p and those two issues have me cringing...a lot. Boy is first camera at any price that can do FF 120fps and you are crying because it does not fit your scenario of very long takes at 120fps then FF is not for you as this is the only one in town.... is like saying that a cheap dragster cannot race at daytona 24h... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said: Probably economy of scale, integration and silicon process node. Afaik, all the imaging processing and encoding in smartphone chips are optimized and embedded in the processor. This, combined with the sheer volume of smartphone sales (a thing that cameras does not have anymore - dilute the chipset costs with a very large model base) and much more modern and mature manufacturing processes (the Snapdragon 865 of that phone is made in a 7nm process, somewhere I read that camera companies still use processes from 10 years ago). Yep and when the cpu design is done by a 1.6 trillion $ company as their primary business on a 1000000 time large scale product.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted July 9, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted July 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, gt3rs said: Boy is first camera at any price that can do FF 120fps and you are crying because it does not fit your scenario of very long takes at 120fps then FF is not for you as this is the only one in town.... is like saying that a cheap dragster cannot race at daytona 24h... S1 / S1H with 180fps full frame anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said: S1 / S1H with 180fps full frame anyone? 4k? AF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted July 9, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted July 9, 2020 Dude it doesn't matter if you can't shoot! Dead camera on set. Dead camera at wedding. Excuse me priest! HALT the ceremony! My EOS R5 has overheated! Yurolov, Katrikura, andrgl and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBobsPhotography Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, gt3rs said: Yep and when the cpu design is done by a 1.6 trillion $ company as their primary business on a 1000000 time large scale product.... If Canon insist of designing their own h265 encoder and use their own fabs for the prosessor, that's a very valid point to criticise. I can't see any good reason for them not to buy the design from ARM or Qualcom or whomever and get Global Foundries or someone else to produce it. I can understand why Canon want to produce their own image sensor, but for the prosessor they should license as much as possible except for the "Canon-sauce". Geoff CB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted July 9, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted July 9, 2020 Smartphone H.265 encoder / CPU are off the shelf components and not even expensive. Look at BOM cost for a Samsung S20. Nothing to stop Canon from using latest 7nm node manufacturing if they wanted to. The EOS R5 overheats because it is not the latest cutting edge silicon. Frankly, for £4000 it should be! Daai 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoogieKnight Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Smartphone H.265 encoder / CPU are off the shelf components and not even expensive. Look at BOM cost for a Samsung S20. Nothing to stop Canon from using latest 7nm node manufacturing if they wanted to. The EOS R5 overheats because it is not the latest cutting edge silicon. Frankly, for £4000 it should be! This crap is common in so many industries. Music production is just the same; synths etc. are just rehashing silicon sometimes over a decade old. Smartphones have changed the market and I full agree; other areas should be exploiting the technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Steenhoff Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 look there is an overheat control option in the menu, towards the end of the video at 24 min Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, gt3rs said: Boy is first camera at any price that can do FF 120fps Tell us, you're an alien. Or you were living in a cave long before Covid-19 afflicted the world. 5 minutes ago, Lars Steenhoff said: look there is an overheat control option in the menu, toward the end of the video at 24 min I saw it on Newsshooter.com too. I am curious how much longer it lasts with it, and how it affects the image. Suddenly, I feel, all of us Panasonic M43 users take reliability for granted. The fact that the GH5/GH5s can record for hours, like other GH cameras before them. No overheating rubbish. We can even record whole concerts with the battery grip, even popping one battery out while the one in the camera continues (and swapping between SD cards, since we can remember, like 3-3.5 years ago). newfoundmass, Simon Young and Katrikura 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumann Films Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I’m happy to let my footage do the talking to bring more of you over to my camp. I think it’s an incredible achievement and nitpicking about stuff that can easily be worked around is...a bit much. To each his own though, it’s your investment and you know what you need in a camera. It’s my A cam for just about everything. For everything it doesn’t work for, I will rent. Easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcio Kabke Pinheiro Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Smartphone H.265 encoder / CPU are off the shelf components and not even expensive. Look at BOM cost for a Samsung S20. Nothing to stop Canon from using latest 7nm node manufacturing if they wanted to. The EOS R5 overheats because it is not the latest cutting edge silicon. Frankly, for £4000 it should be! My guess: software. All the "SO"s from all cameras manufacturers look like a simple evolution of the old one. Maybe it is just conservadorism, maybe want a tried and debugged start code to avoid problems. Another guess: the cameras chipset design probably have some special code to start everything in the minimal time needed. Smartphone takes a long time to boot, and I suppose that it is not only because of Android /iOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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