Canon R6 overheats as well.

[Andrew Reid]

The Sigma Fp records internal RAW and is the size of 2 decks of cards!

[rawshooter]

1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

The Sigma Fp records internal RAW and is the size of 2 decks of cards!

Yeah, but it can't do oversampled 4K... 😉

Perfect FF hybrid video camera isn't there yet.

[ade towell]

6 minutes ago, padam said:

Canon's way is to release a separate video-centric camera with active cooling and a dedicated sensor that will run for many hours without issues. It won't be a usable stills camera.

We just don't know when and for how much but looking at the XC15, it is certainly possible to design something like that with a bigger sensor and an RF-mount.

Canon's way has always been to release reliable solid cameras. What is this camera you speak of, are you guessing or is it being worked on now?

[padam]

3 minutes ago, ade towell said:

Canon's way has always been to release reliable solid cameras. What is this camera you speak of, are you guessing or is it being worked on now?

It has been rumoured several times, but nothing has been confirmed yet, and no recent talk.
But I am quite sure they are working on something like that, they have fully sorted out their EF-mount Cinema line, I can't see them coming out with even more EF-mount cameras, they seem to be fully complete now.

So the next step is to begin the Cinema line for the RF-mount and also at the lower-end, not the higher-end.

[Django]

25 minutes ago, rawshooter said:

But that's actually not true - other cameras such as the Panasonic S1H record oversampled 10bit 4:2:2 Full Frame 4K  without any thermal issues.

Only up to 4K30p.. 4K60p has a S35 crop and drops to 10-bit 4:2:0 LongGOP. Obviously no 8K or 4K120p FF. No DPAF or internal RAW either.

And that's with a fan and body almost twice the weight.

[Video Hummus]

52 minutes ago, ade towell said:

I'm not accusing Canon of being lazy I just want them to release a product I can rely on to get me through a day of filming

They do! They want you to buy CanOn C200/300/500 and hopefully we will get a new C100 or XC style RF Mount camera.

There was no-way Canon was going to release an R5 with unlimited 8K/4K120p, oversampled 4K video with DPAF in all modes without some cripple hammering. Let’s get real.

What they did release was excellent hybrid cameras.

If anything they drew a solid line in the sand about their philosophy going forward.

They very much see their Cinema line as the place to go for video work.

I think its an exciting release, overheating gotchas and all.

[Django]

2 hours ago, anonim said:

But where you hear 30-40 and 40-50 min? That lady in OP clip strictly said 30 and 40 min respectively (in theory)... and than, almost as a joke, proceeds with claim that even scrolling through menu system camera accumulate heat! That means, it IMO looks more realistically to turn down strict quote in real field usage... I'm afraid 30-20 min for 4 4k60p and 40-30 min for 4k30... all of that without raw flexibility.

The overheat info is detailed on the official Japanese R6 page. 

[Matthew19]

4 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

I think this overheating is getting over exagerated. I read a guy was shooting all day long didnt get overheated once.

I read that as well. That means that either that guy is wrong, or Canon have the stupidest marketing department in the world. 

[Matthew19]

The thing is you can shoot pixel binned 4k and it will never shut down. That'll
probably like like 1:1 4k in terms of sharpness, I assume. Sprinkle some 60p here and there and a few 8k estabs and you're good to go.

The real question for the r5 is how long of 60p 4k recording do you get after rolling for 45 minutes at pixel binned 4k.  

[Super8]

2 hours ago, rawshooter said:

But that's actually not true - other cameras such as the Panasonic S1H record oversampled 10bit 4:2:2 Full Frame 4K  without any thermal issues.

You basically got three options now:

1) Sony A7iii: oversampled 4K, but only 8bit, passive cooling

2) Panasonic: oversampled 4K, 10bit, with active cooling

3) Canon: 4k 10bit, but only with line-skipping/binning if you want continuous recording, passive cooling + "turbo" or "burst" modes with overheating issues

I wouldn't put to much stock in Panasonic and it's 10 bit 4:22 FF 4K data rate and image quality.  The gave us 10bit on the GH5 which didn't hold up to other 10bit samples once it was compared in the real world.  The same group of people at Panasonic know if they throw enough specs at the public they will over look broken AF and defend the camera until end days.

[ade towell]

You don't half talk some bollocks

[Mark Romero 2]

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

I wouldn't put to much stock in Panasonic and it's 10 bit 4:22 FF 4K data rate and image quality.  The gave us 10bit on the GH5 which didn't hold up to other 10bit samples once it was compared in the real world.  The same group of people at Panasonic know if they throw enough specs at the public they will over look broken AF and defend the camera until end days.

Huh???

I quite like the image out of my S1. Much better than out of my Sony cameras. People who are far more talented than I have said that the image out of the S1 / S1H is basically equivalent to that out of the BMPCC6K and it seems that the image has more latitude than the 6K.

Yeah, the AF is disappointing. On the other hand, if you go with Panasonic lenses, then you get minimal focus breathing, and they are VERY close to being parfocal. 

Also, if you are using AF to do focus pulls, they are VERY smooth. Maybe that was one of the reasons they decided to use contrast detect / depth from defocus? It's like the lens ramps in and out when doing focus pulls via AF. 

Also, i guess one man's specs are another man's useful features. The EVF and the LCD on the S1 are quite a joy to use. The IBIS is great. It's nice that you have TWO zebra settings (although on the S1 it isn't quite as capable as the S1H in terms of zebras). Waveforms are very helpful (false color would be better though).  Full size HDMI port. 

And the camera is rugged. I know this first hand 😞 

Don't get me wrong: still lots of stuff I would love to see changed / improved on my S1. But it is certainly more than just a bunch of specs.

[Super8]

26 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Huh???

I quite like the image out of my S1. Much better than out of my Sony cameras. People who are far more talented than I have said that the image out of the S1 / S1H is basically equivalent to that out of the BMPCC6K and it seems that the image has more latitude than the 6K.

Yeah, the AF is disappointing. On the other hand, if you go with Panasonic lenses, then you get minimal focus breathing, and they are VERY close to being parfocal. 

Also, if you are using AF to do focus pulls, they are VERY smooth. Maybe that was one of the reasons they decided to use contrast detect / depth from defocus? It's like the lens ramps in and out when doing focus pulls via AF. 

Also, i guess one man's specs are another man's useful features. The EVF and the LCD on the S1 are quite a joy to use. The IBIS is great. It's nice that you have TWO zebra settings (although on the S1 it isn't quite as capable as the S1H in terms of zebras). Waveforms are very helpful (false color would be better though).  Full size HDMI port. 

And the camera is rugged. I know this first hand 😞 

Don't get me wrong: still lots of stuff I would love to see changed / improved on my S1. But it is certainly more than just a bunch of specs.

I will try and do some research on image quality between the S1, S1H and Z6.  Has anyone found out if they share the same sensor?

I've filmed action oriented talent that AF tracking captured amazingly.   How is AF tracking on the S1?  Is it just focus breathing that's an issue for locked AF?  I had a Panasonic rep demo the S1's AF and while he was telling me it worked perfectly, it failed on the spot.

No I don't have an extra $2K a for a focus puller and rig.  The one thing hybrid cameras have over cine cameras are the size and AF tracking.  

If Panasonic could fix this one issue then I would be sold on them. 

[PannySVHS]

Image quality of S1 is astonishing in VLOG and 10bit. Unparalled until now in a Hybrid. AF for video fans look somewhere else. Imagelovers and filmmakers should check it out. Sensor of z6, s1/h, a73 has been mentioned a lot of times to be the same by Sony @Super8 don´t be sold unless you have done some filming with it. Anything else is second hand knowledge. Just like mine. We are always grateful for ones own footage. You can check out some test footage by me in the S1 thread.

Back to R6, if it shoots hasslefree pixelbinned 24-50p 4K 10bit 422 with same usuability and roughness as S1, then we have an impressive contender. I´m interested to see how CLOG 1 holds up compared to VLOG. Cannot wait to see some tasty footage with the Canon. Great footage is a rather rare thing these days with these impressive hybrid cameras though. Like Leica owners taking pictures of flowers.

[Video Hummus]

9 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Back to R6, if it shoots hasslefree pixelbinned 24-50p 4K 10bit 422

Is pixel binning from 48mp on the R5 even that bad? The A7Riv pixel bins from 60mp and it looks really good.

So the R5 in pixel bin mode might be worth the money over the R6

[PannySVHS]

1 minute ago, Video Hummus said:

Is pixel binning from 48mp on the R5 even that bad? The A7Riv pixel bins from 60mp and it looks really good.

So the R5 in pixel bin mode might be worth the money over the R6

Not necessarily. GH2, GH3 , GH4, G7, G6 all had pixelbinning and produced very beautiful HD. Better than from 1:1 readout. So if well done, it indeed should not be bad at all but rather mouthwatering. It would be like a mini c300mkII if anything else is good and if overheating will be not an issue. 

[Video Hummus]

2 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Not necessarily. GH2, GH3 , GH4, G7, G6 all had pixelbinning and produced very beautiful HD. Better than from 1:1 readout. So if well done, it indeed should not be bad at all but rather mouthwatering. It would be like a mini c300mkII if anything else is good and if overheating will be not an issue. 

Yeah, so I’m not sure I see much downside in shooting in the pixel-binned modes for longer records. Save the 4K HQ oversampled mode and 8K RAW for those challenging shots.

I’m also glad the R5 has the CFExpress slot. I know media is expensive but its a future proof storage medium.

The A7SIII is rumored only to have SD, so probably no internal RAW, and the typical anemic sony codecs and bitrates.

[newfoundmass]

8 hours ago, padam said:

First, the basher group needs to provide counter-examples to prove that Canon's engineers are "being lazy". We can all agree that keeping a powerful IBIS and DPAF system fully operating, while decoding masses of data to memory cards means the camera's processing really takes a beating.

Yes, so remedy that by providing cooling like the S1H did. Canon is choosing to launch cameras with overheating issues. 

8 hours ago, padam said:

Canon's way is to release a separate video-centric camera with active cooling and a dedicated sensor that will run for many hours without issues. It won't be a usable stills camera.

I disagree, as these two cameras were clearly marketed to video shooters, but even if all that is true it sucks and doesn't make complaints any less valid. 

[padam]

32 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Yes, so remedy that by providing cooling like the S1H did. Canon is choosing to launch cameras with overheating issues. 

I disagree, as these two cameras were clearly marketed to video shooters, but even if all that is true it sucks and doesn't make complaints any less valid. 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPzuwTW78jQTaLmfKDs9rFQ

Some footage here, the pixel binned 4K looks perfectly fine to me and it won't have serious overheating issues.

At this point the S1H does not offer any kind of 4k120p, so it got completely outclassed by the R5 and the A7sIII as well, both are superb cameras with different advantages and drawbacks regarding stills or video.
Far more people have issues with the S1H size and AF problems than overheating and just the lack of lenses is not great for anyone wanting to get into the system even though it is an alliance, so it has room to expand and improve, we'll see what happens.
The sales numbers will prove that, some people won't even use the R5 for video, but they definitely won't use the S1H for stills, there are far better and cheaper options out there.

As far as  see, most people's hate for the R5 comes from its expected popularity which might devaluate their own equipment even further.

Everything is getting cheaper because of these cameras, people should be happy that they exist instead of trying to find what's wrong about them.

The smart people will embrace the new opportunities that are present with cameras getting older or investing in new technology, why others just continue to be keyboard warriors.

[noone]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

Yes, so remedy that by providing cooling like the S1H did. Canon is choosing to launch cameras with overheating issues. 

I disagree, as these two cameras were clearly marketed to video shooters, but even if all that is true it sucks and doesn't make complaints any less valid. 

Yes.    Canon has had ads in camera magazines for months where video was the first thing listed.     This was from the May issue of Australian Photography.     So even in a magazine aimed primarily at amateur stills shooters, video gets first billing.