Disappointed in the Canon R6 - Coming From A Canon User

[herein2020]

I will start this off by saying I am a huge Canon fan, I recommend Canon gear to pretty much anyone starting out in photography and waited years for Canon to get their act together so that I could replace my GH5 with a Canon mirrorless for video gimbal work. Every spec that was leaked about the R6 seemed to indicate that it was going to be the no brainer replacement for my GH5 gimbal camera work....until all of the specs were revealed. I had only 3 real requirements for the R6 since I already knew it would have excellent AF, color science, and video codec options:

 

• Dual card slot video recording - This was my number one requirement for the R6. I will never understand why a camera would have dual card slots then only record video to one of them. My C200 records to both, my GH5 records to both, why doesn't my 5DIV do the same, and now the R6 doesn't either in 2020? I've heard all of the people saying they've never had a failure, Hollywood cameras only record to a single card etc, etc. Well I have had a card reader completely corrupt an SD card after a full day of shooting and the second card saved the day; I will never pick camera that has no backup capability for video over one that does. I also don't understand why more people are not clearly highlighting this fact or the fact that nearly every competitor does have this feature.
• Unlimited recording time - Once again, it is 2020, why on earth did Canon keep the 30min recording limit due to some obscure tax law that only affects certain European countries? My GH5 has unlimited recording time, I use it all the time as a B cam for the C200 for interviews, conferences, long events, etc. 
• XLR audio module - this remains to be seen, but so far Canon has not mentioned any plans to release an XLR module for the R5 or R6. This is one of my favorite GH5 features, all of my audio gear uses XLR connectors and for run and gun situations I'll use the GH5 for the whole project including high quality audio capture.

The GH5 is far from perfect; highlight rolloff is atrocious in WDR scenarios, the color science is a pain to grade in post, and of course my number one problem is the fact I need to use MF at all times when shooting with it which means I'm throwing away an unacceptable amount of footage and working overtime to keep the talent in focus during complex gimbal movements.

I had fully planned on pre-ordering the R6 when it was available but every single thing that is important to me is missing from this camera and that was before the overheating problems starting making the rounds. I live in FL where my gear regularly sits in 120+ degree heat inside of cars before the start of the project; I cannot afford to have a camera that overheats on set. My GH5 has worked flawlessly shooting at 4K60FPS in 98 degree heat, after sitting in a 120 degree car and never overheated. That's the type of reliability I have come to expect from all of my gear.

Now that the full specs for the R6 are available, the only thing it did was make me realize just how good the GH5 is and further appreciate its features despite it's downsides. I still have some hope that an R6 firmware update will remove the recording limit, add dual slot video recording, and Canon releases an XLR module. If they did that I'd be all in with Canon.

[padam]

They do have an R5 for dual recording and an external recorder can be used to lift up the 30-minute limit, although the micro-HDMI connector may cause an issue here.

With a non-cinema type model and a relatively cheaper one at that, it is really not surprising to see these limitations, it has been like that ever since the company existed and we need to compare against what they've offered in the past.
And it seems a huge revelation in comparison to that.
If people find it not acceptable and don't buy it, then their plan could be simply to drop the price to 2000$ instead of 2500$
But for 4000$ less than a 1DX III that has the inconvenient DSLR form factor, it could very well be a huge hit, lots of creators have pre-ordered it.

As you say the GH5 is far from perfect, just like any other camera, but everyone can choose something that's as close to perfect for him as possible.
All the Panasonic users can express their dismay about the company being adamant about using contrast-detect AF or larger bodies. etc. etc. this can go until the end of time.

[thebrothersthre3]

Couldn't an external recorder solve all that? Its just $500. More bulky for sure but definitely doable. 

I agree Canon should have figured out the overheating and had no time limits but it is what it is. 

The other option is a C300 MK3, but its quite a bit of dough or a 1DX MK3

I think an R6 plus Atomos Ninja 5 is worth it. Canon full frame 10 bit 4k 60 and Canon legendary PDAF for $3000 

[herein2020]

9 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Couldn't an external recorder solve all that? Its just $500. More bulky for sure but definitely doable. 

I agree Canon should have figured out the overheating and had no time limits but it is what it is. 

The other option is a C300 MK3, but its quite a bit of dough or a 1DX MK3

I think an R6 plus Atomos Ninja 5 is worth it. Canon full frame 10 bit 4k 60 and Canon legendary PDAF for $3000 

It could but then it will not fit my workflow. More bulky, still a single point of failure (hard drives can still fail), more batteries to charge and equipment to fiddle with. I have never used an external recorder for these reasons. Also, my main use case is as a gimbal camera, IMO everything should be kept internal. I am typically doing both photography and video in rough conditions (no time for retakes, hot, sandy, difficult to access locations) and simply do not consider an external recorder as a valid solution; at least not when other cameras can do everything internally and other cameras can record to both card slots simultaneously. 

The R6 has a lot going for it and I still love the idea of owning one, but for my specific use cases and workflow it will be too much of a compromise at least for now. I think the lack of dual slot recording irks me more than any other shortcoming, it might as well have one card slot.

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

 

• Dual card slot video recording - This was my number one requirement for the R6. I will never understand why a camera would have dual card slots then only record video to one of them. My C200 records to both, my GH5 records to both, why doesn't my 5DIV do the same, and now the R6 doesn't either in 2020? I've heard all of the people saying they've never had a failure, Hollywood cameras only record to a single card etc, etc. Well I have had a card reader completely corrupt an SD card after a full day of shooting and the second card saved the day; I will never pick camera that has no backup capability for video over one that does. I also don't understand why more people are not clearly highlighting this fact or the fact that nearly every competitor does have this feature.

Canon want you to buy the EOS R5 for that

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

• Unlimited recording time - Once again, it is 2020, why on earth did Canon keep the 30min recording limit due to some obscure tax law that only affects certain European countries? My GH5 has unlimited recording time, I use it all the time as a B cam for the C200 for interviews, conferences, long events, etc. 

Canon want you to buy the C200 for that

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

• XLR audio module - this remains to be seen, but so far Canon has not mentioned any plans to release an XLR module for the R5 or R6. This is one of my favorite GH5 features, all of my audio gear uses XLR connectors and for run and gun situations I'll use the GH5 for the whole project including high quality audio capture.

Canon want you to buy the C500 II for that and all the rest, really is the last step up, promise.

 

34 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

The R6 has a lot going for it and I still love the idea of owning one, but for my specific use cases and workflow it will be too much of a compromise at least for now. I think the lack of dual slot recording irks me more than any other shortcoming, it might as well have one card slot.

Have you considered the 1D X Mark III?

[Leica50mm]

Who is shooting “onset” with a 3500.00 hybrid camera ?  

[thebrothersthre3]

2 minutes ago, Leica50mm said:

Who is shooting “onset” with a 3500.00 hybrid camera ?  

I feel its not that uncommon for a Hybrid to be used as a gimbal camera. Just was on a show with a FX9 as A cam and A73 as B camera and Gimbal camera. Depends on how high end the show is I guess. Probably not really a thing in most narrative stuff(the pro stuff at least).

All this stuff is mostly catering to the lower end of things I feel like. 

[Leica50mm]

I find it ridiculous that anyone expects to roll 8k, Slomo footage continuesly with this camera. 

[Super8]

2 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I will start this off by saying I am a huge Canon fan, I recommend Canon gear to pretty much anyone starting out in photography and waited years for Canon to get their act together so that I could replace my GH5 with a Canon mirrorless for video gimbal work. Every spec that was leaked about the R6 seemed to indicate that it was going to be the no brainer replacement for my GH5 gimbal camera work....until all of the specs were revealed. I had only 3 real requirements for the R6 since I already knew it would have excellent AF, color science, and video codec options:

I hear ya about the Canon fan club, I'm in it also. 

How does the C200 hold up to the GH5?  

Quote

highlight rolloff is atrocious in WDR scenarios, the color science is a pain to grade in post, and of course my number one problem is the fact I need to use MF at all times when shooting with it which means I'm throwing away an unacceptable amount of footage and working overtime to keep the talent in focus during complex gimbal movements.

I personally won't use the GH5 for this reason.   I don't care how many specs are included it doesn't fix these issues and the issues above make the Gh5 un-usable.  

The whole purpose of hybrid cameras is so you don't have to go spend C200 money and can keep rigs smaller. 

 

Maybe don't leave your gear in 120 degree Florida heat. 

[Leica50mm]

Want to shoot continuous 8k for 3500.00 , good luck. 

[Andrew Reid]

1 minute ago, Leica50mm said:

Want to shoot continuous 8k for 3500.00 , good luck. 

Smartphone can process the same amount of pixels (8K) and encode to same codec for $700

Xiaomi Mi 10 Pro

[Video Hummus]

15 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Smartphone can process the same amount of pixels (8K) and encode to same codec for $700

Xiaomi Mi 10 Pro

Why didn’t Canon just stick a Xiaomi Mi 10 Pro in the body? It would probably fit and doesn’t need active cooling so wouldn’t over heat.

Someone needs to do a tear down of the R5 internals.

[Leica50mm]

Oh, hell yes!   Then you should definitely show up on set with it .

[herein2020]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Canon want you to buy the EOS R5 for that

Canon want you to buy the C200 for that

Canon want you to buy the C500 II for that and all the rest, really is the last step up, promise.

 

Have you considered the 1D X Mark III?

I get Canon wants consumers to buy something else, but at least dual card slot recording I didn't think was too much to ask.  The 1DX III is overkill for what I need, I already have a 5DIV for photography, all I need is a gimbal camera with reliable AF and dual card slot video recording for a gimbal camera. I really like the S1H, it has everything I want but I would have to buy into the L mount which means new lenses that cannot be used for any other camera. Also, I would not use the S1H for photography so after $6K+ for a camera and lenses I'd be in the same situation I'm in now; a gimbal camera with terrible AF and not useable for photography. My plan was to use the R6 mainly for video and test out the photography features as well and maybe eventually replace my 5DIV with the R5.

Also, I am not completely convinced that the R5 can record to both card slots in the way that is expected. The only options that I have seen so far is that the R5 can record RAW to one card and MP4 to the other...this is not the same thing as recording MP4 to both slots.

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

I hear ya about the Canon fan club, I'm in it also. 

How does the C200 hold up to the GH5?  

I personally won't use the GH5 for this reason.   I don't care how many specs are included it doesn't fix these issues and the issues above make the Gh5 un-usable.  

The whole purpose of hybrid cameras is so you don't have to go spend C200 money and can keep rigs smaller. 

 

Maybe don't leave your gear in 120 degree Florida heat. 

It is possible to match the C200 with the GH5, definitely not easy, but I use CLOG3 with the C200 and Cinelike-D with the GH5 and as long as everything else is identical (exposure, WB, etc.) I can get the two to match in post. Once you know it's limitations you can get quality footage out of it, but it falls apart quickly in difficult lighting.  For the type of projects that I work on, the client doesn't notice the shortcomings.

I don't have a choice with the heat, its easy to say on a forum, but not realistic in reality. Within min of getting out of the car it will hit 120, I've had to leave one camera in the car while lugging the other one around to do the photo shoot portion then changed all of the gear for the video portion etc. My main projects are not in the big budget category; mainly small corporate commercial work, conferences, weddings, music videos, etc. so I'm usually solo and the only way to ensure nothing gets lost or stolen is to leave whatever I am not using at the time in the car.

[Leica50mm]

I believe your just leading this ridiculous campaign to promote

 your blog . Which is perfectly fine . But, do you really expect a camera that cost 3500.00 to do what a 79,0000.00 dollar Red Monstro does?   Every sane person knew it would be limited.   And the Red doesn’t have the crazy good AF. 
I think a lot of people are going to take advantage of the amazing capabilities of this camera, and produce some lovely work. And, from what I have seen it looks pretty fantastic. We have come a long way since the 5D. 

[josdr]

5 hours ago, Leica50mm said:

I believe your just leading this ridiculous campaign to promote

 your blog .

What ridiculous campaign would that be? Not believing reviews that corporate has ordained to its stable of paid youtubers ? A careful examination of the released specs of both R5 and R6 , coupled with a modicum of actual field experience and what else is on the market and technically feasible, show many severe shortcomings for both cameras that could have actually been avoided, and may indeed be rectified via firmware if Canon's cripple hammer is put to rest.

Healthy discussion with solid arguments is always good. Blindly kneeling to the altar of Canon,Sony, Fuji etc, is not..

 

 

[Amazeballs]

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Smartphone can process the same amount of pixels (8K) and encode to same codec for $700

Xiaomi Mi 10 Pro

Yeah, but it has a tiny sensor. Its all about dissipating heat generated from a sensor plus the processor and not the processor alone. Thats why GH5 could do it for such a long time as well. Ratio of camera size to a sensor. And thats why S1H can do it. 

[herein2020]

12 hours ago, Leica50mm said:

I believe your just leading this ridiculous campaign to promote

 your blog . Which is perfectly fine . But, do you really expect a camera that cost 3500.00 to do what a 79,0000.00 dollar Red Monstro does?   Every sane person knew it would be limited.   And the Red doesn’t have the crazy good AF. 
I think a lot of people are going to take advantage of the amazing capabilities of this camera, and produce some lovely work. And, from what I have seen it looks pretty fantastic. We have come a long way since the 5D. 

I don't even know what blog you are rereferring to or if you are even responding to the right thread. But no one is expecting a $2500 or $3500 camera to perform like one costing 20x as much. On the other hand, if a manufacturer puts features into a camera that make you decide to buy that camera then you find out you can't actually use those features because it will overheat....that is a problem. 

Would you buy a car that has amazing features but randomly shuts down half way to your destination depending on many factors that are beyond your control? Canon is known for stability, not innovation and I think this time around they chose to go all in on innovation which is great for them but I would take stability over innovation any day. My clients aren't going to care why we are all standing around when my equipment doesn't work, they are just going to hire someone else next time.

[Andrew Reid]

15 hours ago, Leica50mm said:

I believe your just leading this ridiculous campaign to promote

It's not even a campaign

Simply about reporting the facts

None of the major coverage initially mentioned any overheating issues. People were pre-ordering the camera under a false pretence.

So I had to put the facts on the blog rather than have that info stay hidden in the CVP video. You seem to be suggesting that I should shut up?

15 hours ago, Leica50mm said:

But, do you really expect a camera that cost 3500.00 to do what a 79,0000.00 dollar Red Monstro does?

It's $3900 + tax. I expect it to do what a $3900 Panasonic S1H does - active cooling, 4K 10bit 422 unlimited record times. 6K or 8K is just a bonus. The RAW file sizes are unmanageable for longer record times so the overheating in that mode is only the secondary problem!

15 hours ago, Leica50mm said:

Every sane person knew it would be limited.   And the Red doesn’t have the crazy good AF. 
I think a lot of people are going to take advantage of the amazing capabilities of this camera, and produce some lovely work. And, from what I have seen it looks pretty fantastic. We have come a long way since the 5D. 

Of course, you can produce lovely work with the EOS R5.

It's will just be a shame about the moment on that shoot where great stuff is being captured up to the point where NOTHING is being captured because the camera got too warm.

[thebrothersthre3]

It should have USB-c output to SSDs like the sigma FP. Micro hdmi on these cameras is just an intentional cripple as well.