Disappointed in the Canon R6 - Coming From A Canon User

[herein2020]

18 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's not even a campaign

Simply about reporting the facts

None of the major coverage initially mentioned any overheating issues. People were pre-ordering the camera under a false pretence.

So I had to put the facts on the blog rather than have that info stay hidden in the CVP video. You seem to be suggesting that I should shut up?

It's $3900 + tax. I expect it to do what a $3900 Panasonic S1H does - active cooling, 4K 10bit 422 unlimited record times. 6K or 8K is just a bonus. The RAW file sizes are unmanageable for longer record times so the overheating in that mode is only the secondary problem!

Of course, you can produce lovely work with the EOS R5.

It's will just be a shame about the moment on that shoot where great stuff is being captured up to the point where NOTHING is being captured because the camera got too warm.

What bothers me the most is that nowhere on the Canon R5 or R6 ordering page are these limitations clearly identified. I almost feel like Canon themselves are not sure how pervasive the problem will be or they do not yet have a cohesive message for the buying public. There was a lot of hype around video leading up to this launch; all Canon had to do was put in a fixed 5min time limit or clearly communicate that in certain modes it would be time limited due to thermal issues; everyone expected some sort of limit, but just letting the camera run until it overheats and not clearly communicate that it is a known issue is a page from Sony's playbook.

[padam]

11 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

It should have USB-c output to SSDs like the sigma FP. Micro hdmi on these cameras is just an intentional cripple as well. 

It probably sucks, if all the good stuff with the new firmware update like BRAW or Prores RAW are going out via HDMI.

[newfoundmass]

The people defending Canon seem to have a problem with people expecting the bare minimum from a camera. 

No one expected unlimited 8K recording (I'm not sure why this was brought up in a post about the R6 but OK.) Everyone expected some limitations on such a feature, but they didn't think it'd be "hey, you can record for 20 minutes in *70 degree* weather, but then you'll need to let it cool down for 20 minutes to be able to record for another 5 minutes" or whatever the numbers are. Why didn't any of us expect that? Because it's not practical! And if a company knows there's that big of an issue, one should expect they'd do more to remedy it BEFORE releasing it to consumers. 

If you can't match the functionality of a 3 and a half year old GH5 then what are you doing? And full frame 4K without a crop isn't an excuse. Asking for a camera that doesn't overheat isn't unreasonable. 

[padam]

12 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

The people defending Canon seem to have a problem with people expecting the bare minimum from a camera. 

No one expected unlimited 8K recording (I'm not sure why this was brought up in a post about the R6 but OK.) Everyone expected some limitations on such a feature, but they didn't think it'd be "hey, you can record for 20 minutes in *70 degree* weather, but then you'll need to let it cool down for 20 minutes to be able to record for another 5 minutes" or whatever the numbers are. Why didn't any of us expect that? Because it's not practical! And if a company knows there's that big of an issue, one should expect they'd do more to remedy it BEFORE releasing it to consumers. 

If you can't match the functionality of a 3 and a half year old GH5 then what are you doing? And full frame 4K without a crop isn't an excuse. 

Well the binned FF 4K on the R5 matches that very well in every sense (including rolling shutter) and it goes about for 1 hour 30 minutes.
Could be more of an issue on the R6, yes, but again, apart from the S1 with the cropped 4k60p weak AF and big body, there is no FF camera to be mentioned alongside it.
Personally, I'd just rather have overheating and AF than a big and heavy camera body. I simply don't need it to run non-stop (if someone would request it, I'd just go down to 1080p, better for file size, too)
And of course it kills the GH5 (S1) for stills too, before we'd just forget that.

I guess other people are just annoyed as they thought that they got the bare minimum from Canon in the past, like the 1DX II with cropped MJPEG and no Log, the 5D IV / EOS R or the 6D II / RP in the lower tier with an even worse crop factor, soft 1080p, etc. and it is suddenly a massive upgrade (with IBIS thrown it at the 'right time' as well for good measure) that no one predicted, so they might have left the system at the wrong time.

 

[Super8]

35 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

The people defending Canon seem to have a problem with people expecting the bare minimum from a camera. 

No one expected unlimited 8K recording (I'm not sure why this was brought up in a post about the R6 but OK.) Everyone expected some limitations on such a feature, but they didn't think it'd be "hey, you can record for 20 minutes in *70 degree* weather, but then you'll need to let it cool down for 20 minutes to be able to record for another 5 minutes" or whatever the numbers are. Why didn't any of us expect that? Because it's not practical! And if a company knows there's that big of an issue, one should expect they'd do more to remedy it BEFORE releasing it to consumers. 

If you can't match the functionality of a 3 and a half year old GH5 then what are you doing? And full frame 4K without a crop isn't an excuse. Asking for a camera that doesn't overheat isn't unreasonable. 

Nope.  It's all about people jumping on a negative and having knee jerk reactions.

The GH5 had crippled specs that for all purposes were the same as an iPhone doing 4k at the time.   Yes that's extreme but as long as you see 4K 10bit you think it's equal to cine 4k 10bit and its not. 

Maybe wait and see what the limitations are before jumping off the cliff.

[SteveV4D]

30 minutes ago, Super8 said:

 

The GH5 had crippled specs that for all purposes were the same as an iPhone doing 4k at the time.   

Thats the funniest and probably silliest statement I've ever read on this forum.  😂😂  So glad you've discovered your sense of humour.  😉  

[SteveV4D]

1 hour ago, padam said:

I guess other people are just annoyed as they thought that they got the bare minimum from Canon in the past, like the 1DX II with cropped MJPEG and no Log, the 5D IV / EOS R or the 6D II / RP in the lower tier with an even worse crop factor, soft 1080p, etc. and it is suddenly a massive upgrade (with IBIS thrown it at the 'right time' as well for good measure) that no one predicted, so they might have left the system at the wrong time.

 

I left Canon back in 2012.  No regrets.  No problem coming back to them.  Just need a hybrid camera with great colour, AF and IBIS that doesn't cripple framerates upto 60p DCI 4k with either a crop or a time limit.   That's all.  Not much to ask, but apparently everything to ask. 

[padam]

20 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

I left Canon back in 2012.  No regrets.  No problem coming back to them.  Just need a hybrid camera with great colour, AF and IBIS that doesn't cripple DCI 4k with framerate upto 60p with either a crop or a time limit.   That's all.  Not much to ask, but apparently everything to ask. 

Others left around the time of the EOS R, which already came after the A7III and initially received bad press, thinking Canon does not take mirrorless seriously at all.
Even though they've already showed with their amazing lenses that they indeed do.

I guess Sony A7SIII will come closest then (I expect it to offer DCI 4K), it is great to have choices and none of them will ever be perfect in absolute terms.
I am not happy with some of the crippling they did with the R6 (But also not surprised and based on the past, I expected much worse), but the R5 seems almost flawless for the things it manages to offer, maybe they will improve this and that via firmware, I don't think they held back on it overall, and fixing some of these issues would have made it worse in other aspects, I really don't want it to be any bigger and heavier (or more expensive) than it already is.
I was slightly squinting towards a Leica SL2. Yes, it is insanely priced, but it should perform best with my old lenses and it provides great looking images, that should translate well into video as well. But an R5 seems smaller, much more modern (swivel screen...) and cheaper, and it's certainly not worse in terms of overheating and battery compared to the Leica, that was a bit of a letdown considering the SL2 asking price.
The R5 still costs three times as much as the EOS R, so it is a question of diminishing returns and I really need to think about when it is the time to get one - if I actually do.

[SteveV4D]

24 minutes ago, padam said:

I am not happy with some of the crippling they did with the R6 (But also not surprised and based on the past, I expected much worse), but the R5 seems almost flawless for the things it manages to offer.

The R5 is definitely not flawless.  I think some have been suckered in by headline grabbing specs such as 8K and 120fps 4K.  Imagine what would have happened if after Panasonic announced the GH5 with 60p 4K and 10 bit, they suddenly said at launch, oh by the way, you can only record for 30 mins with it.  Complete letdown and would never have been as well sold and used as it was.

I don't mind Canon chasing 8K.  If they just released another camera that did 4K without the crop and the time limit.  

[padam]

30 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

The R5 is definitely not flawless.  I think some have been suckered in by headline grabbing specs such as 8K and 120fps 4K.  Imagine what would have happened if after Panasonic announced the GH5 with 60p 4K and 10 bit, they suddenly said at launch, oh by the way, you can only record for 30 mins with it.  Complete letdown and would never have been as well sold and used as it was.

I don't mind Canon chasing 8K.  If they just released another camera that did 4K without the crop and the time limit.  

4k30p binned goes long enough, I really don't need to shoot 4k60p for long (which is the same quality anyway, so it matches binned 4k30p perfectly), so it is flawless for me.
The internal 30-minute clip limit is a little annoying and micro-HDMI are not great.
But again, I don't consider these big enough flaws compared to the mountain of things that they've improved drastically for stills and video. For Canon, yes, this is a revelation, no doubt about it.

The 5D IV or 1DX II had the same 30-minute limits (external output was useless) and yet many people used it for serious video without any issues at all.

The simple truth is that there just aren't enough people out there to make this a real problem, even though they are the most vocal about it, it really won't matter at all in absolute terms.
Whether something like a big feature comes out like 8K or an issue like overheating, the common thing is they get blown way, way out of proportion. Good for writing multiple articles.

This is the same with the A7SIII by the way, I might say it is too specialised and limited for stills, but other professionals will buy it without hesitation because it is flawless for them.

[Super8]

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

Thats the funniest and probably silliest statement I've ever read on this forum.  😂😂  So glad you've discovered your sense of humour.  😉  

Well thank you very much.

You get my point and so does everyone else.

Not with every camera but with the GH5, you only have so long before you can keep calling out it's specs before you have to look at the image it gives you.  In camera years the Gh5 is OLD and has an old looking image.

Quote

The GH5 is far from perfect; highlight rolloff is atrocious in WDR scenarios, the color science is a pain to grade in post, and of course my number one problem is the fact I need to use MF at all times when shooting with it which means I'm throwing away an unacceptable amount of footage and working overtime to keep the talent in focus during complex gimbal movements.

And you know i didn't write the quote above.  

Yes the GH5 was the first hybrid with this that and the other.  If it's so good and the image is so good then we all are wasting time looking at Canon, Sony and BMP cameras. 

[Dimitris Stasinos]

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

The GH5 had crippled specs that for all purposes were the same as an iPhone doing 4k at the time.   

This doesn't make any sense at all. Crippled specs? That thing has every feasible recording option in conjunction with the tech it carries and is a proven workhorse camera. Canon should do their homework on what Panasonic achieved 4 years ago and deliver a better product.

[Super8]

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

Just need a hybrid camera with great colour, AF and IBIS that doesn't cripple framerates upto 60p DCI 4k with either a crop or a time limit. 

So you do have good eyes and standards.  That's good.

[Super8]

Just now, Dimitris Stasinos said:

This doesn't make any sense at all. Crippled specs? That thing has every feasible recording option in conjunction with the tech it carries and is a proven workhorse camera. Canon should do their homework on what Panasonic achieved 4 years ago and deliver a better product.

Because at the end of the day image quality matters. 

Crippled specs is the same as paper specs.  A camera that's good on paper but the image quality doesn't match.

It's clear that lots of cameras passed the GH5 in color and image quality years ago.  The Gh5 is a suckers camera in 2020.  You see people on Facebook boards jumping into buy a $1,697 GH5 from Adorm$$ because the specs checks all the boxes.

Smartphones shoot 4k and even 8K.   Go use those because I'm sure RAW will be next.

[Video Hummus]

 

4 minutes ago, Super8 said:

The Gh5 is a suckers camera in 2020.

Perhaps its not a stretch to see that the R5 and especially the R6 are suckers cameras too?

5 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Crippled specs is the same as paper specs.  A camera that's good on paper but the image quality doesn't match.

Sounds like the R5 and R6. At least the GH5 was released in 2017.

 

6 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Smartphones shoot 4k and even 8K.   Go use those because I'm sure RAW will be next

Can’t wait to see some of your work with these phone cameras. Please post it in the footage section please!

 

2 hours ago, Super8 said:

The GH5 had crippled specs that for all purposes were the same as an iPhone doing 4k at the time.

LOL. Okay. How come Super8 went from -50 points back to 0? Has to be the most downvoted member here.  It’s because of comments like these.

[Dimitris Stasinos]

14 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Because at the end of the day image quality matters. 

Crippled specs is the same as paper specs.  A camera that's good on paper but the image quality doesn't match.

It's clear that lots of cameras passed the GH5 in color and image quality years ago.  The Gh5 is a suckers camera in 2020.  You see people on Facebook boards jumping into buy a $1,697 GH5 from Adorm$$ because the specs checks all the boxes.

Smartphones shoot 4k and even 8K.   Go use those because I'm sure RAW will be next.

Ok got it, you are one of those guys. Go have some fun with your 8K smartphone. 

[ade towell]

Apologies if this comes across a bit harsh Mr Super 8 but your ridiculous obsession with the gh5 and blaiming of BM cameras on other threads due to your own lack of knowledge, do you no favours I'm afraid. 

I don't think I've acome across anyone who consistently talks as much nonsense as you. Other than maybe your lovely President. 

Still can't tell if its intentional trolling or you actually believe what you are saying. Kind of hope it's the former for your own sake

[Super8]

31 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

 

Perhaps its not a stretch to see that the R5 and especially the R6 are suckers cameras too?

Sounds like the R5 and R6. At least the GH5 was released in 2017.

 

Can’t wait to see some of your work with these phone cameras. Please post it in the footage section please!

 

LOL. Okay. How come Super8 went from -50 points back to 0? Has to be the most downvoted member here.  It’s because of comments like these.

The R5 and R6 deliver the specs they claim on paper. 

Let's not forget IMAGE QUALITY trumps SPECS that you never use. 

We need to wait and see how the R5 and R6 stack up against the latest cameras in it's class.  

You could be right.  The Gh5 image quality might be as good as we can get.  I've seen better with the S1, Z6, P4K, P6K and Sigma.  Let see if the R5 and R6 are even usable before we champion that they are not.

 

 

 

[Super8]

39 minutes ago, ade towell said:

Apologies if this comes across a bit harsh Mr Super 8 but your ridiculous obsession with the gh5 and blaiming of BM cameras on other threads due to your own lack of knowledge, do you no favours I'm afraid. 

I don't think I've acome across anyone who consistently talks as much nonsense as you. Other than maybe your lovely President. 

Still can't tell if its intentional trolling or you actually believe what you are saying. Kind of hope it's the former for your own sake

My knowledge of the P6K came from the EOS, the hype, reviews, watching P6K video and talking with the crew I hired.  That is 100% fact.  As i stated, I shot with a different rig and my footage was good and was used. No it wasn't a BM camera.  If I hire someone on my gig then it's simple, produce the work you were hired to do.  We work as a team.

The OP mentioned the Gh5 so it's relevant to this thread.

My take is my opinion only.  No big deal if you disagree.

Now I could post for or against the R5 and R6 and I would still have people that disagree with me.  I'm not the only one saying give it a chance or that you can work around it's limitations.   

[Video Hummus]

27 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Let's not forget IMAGE QUALITY trumps SPECS that you never use. 

So what happens when your camera overheats and shutdowns and won’t let you record? No image is the worst image.

I’m not a professional. But if I was taking money to do a job I wouldn’t feel comfortable using the R5 or R6 based on what I know at this time. It would require you to know exactly the cameras limits from extensive experience using it, especially since temperature records times are documented as being variable in the manual!

As it stands the R5 is a great camera for me because Im doing stuff for my own business that someone else isn’t paying me to do. It’s all on me and I suffer the consequences of my gear shitting the bed when I need it.

I’m also saying give the R5/R6 a chance! Doesn’t mean I don’t think the temperature and record limits are huge show stoppers for a lot of use cases out there, including YouTube and vlogging.