Disappointed in the Canon R6 - Coming From A Canon User

[SteveV4D]

1 hour ago, Dunjoye said:

All of these attachments and extras. Why not just get the real dedicated thing?

Sometimes you have to respect some cameras short comings and figure out work arounds.

Yes, its usually all subjective, but the term "Usable" gets thrown around here alot and I just see it as an excuse for people to get out there and shoot.

What is the real dedicated thing?  And for what job?  Panasonic don't feel constrained by the fact their cameras are mirrorless hybrids to add extra functionality.  Especially as it brings in more cash for them.  A lot of us do use mirrorless cameras for video work as we like a camera that can be kept small when needed and then rigged up for jobs that demand it.  A larger cinema camera doesn't have that flexibility.  

Besides larger cinema cameras have their own attachments that add to the cost.  I remember looking at an URSA, that had a basic price, then a higher price if you included all the extra attachments to make the thing more usable.  So its not confined to Mirrorless.

 

[Dunjoye]

36 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

What is the real dedicated thing?  And for what job?  Panasonic don't feel constrained by the fact their cameras are mirrorless hybrids to add extra functionality.  Especially as it brings in more cash for them.  A lot of us do use mirrorless cameras for video work as we like a camera that can be kept small when needed and then rigged up for jobs that demand it.  A larger cinema camera doesn't have that flexibility.  

Besides larger cinema cameras have their own attachments that add to the cost.  I remember looking at an URSA, that had a basic price, then a higher price if you included all the extra attachments to make the thing more usable.  So its not confined to Mirrorless.

 

The real thing I meant an actual video camera. Yes, I know all cameras have theirs short comings, on hybrids even more. It's all subjective I suppose. I believe every hybrid camera within the last 5 years is very capable of doing majoirty of the job. There as been significant improvment within the last year with regards to image quality and practical UX.  It's time to jsut get out there and shoot. 

[SteveV4D]

2 hours ago, Dunjoye said:

  It's time to jsut get out there and shoot. 

I do, now that lockdown has ended... 😉

I can also debate camera gear here as well.  The two aren't mutally exclusive you know.  Nothing wrong with suggesting  Canon do more for video users.  It doesn’t stop me getting out and filming with what I have. 😁

[Avenger 2.0]

Didn't know the R5 could record video to dual sd cards. Is a first for the 5D series. Nice.

[gt3rs]

44 minutes ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

Didn't know the R5 could record video to dual sd cards. Is a first for the 5D series. Nice.

He cannot, only 8K RAW in CFExpress and in parallel a 4k proxy (can be 10bit HQ) on the SD. But you cannot write the same video file e.g. 4k 10bit on both cards. Same on 1Dx III.... it is silly imo. 

[Avenger 2.0]

15 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

He cannot, only 8K RAW in CFExpress and in parallel a 4k proxy (can be 10bit HQ) on the SD. But you cannot write the same video file e.g. 4k 10bit on both cards. Same on 1Dx III.... it is silly imo. 

Okay thanks. Looks like you still need to go the Cxxx route then.

[Django]

Or add an Atomos if you absolutely need redundancy on a paid shoot..

[Avenger 2.0]

1 minute ago, Django said:

Or add an Atomos if you absolutely need redundancy on a paid shoot..

Yeah, but not so handy when doing run-and-gun like a wedding.

[gt3rs]

1 hour ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

Yeah, but not so handy when doing run-and-gun like a wedding.

In the last 10 years I had 1 card failing (could recover something but not all) on me but I had 3 cameras failing so for me is more important a second camera than writing dual card in parallel. I do switch from 1 card to the other to make sure I don't have all in the same card.  On the R5 the problem is that the card type are different and on SD you don't have full access to all the recording mode. On 1Dx III is easy with two same card type.

But still a silly limitation. 

[SteveV4D]

I'm not too bothered about the single card recording.  Its a small iritation for me. I hardly practise dual recording, even though I do Weddings and only a few cases of slightly corrupted footage.  In all cases, easy to workaround.  

I'm tempted by the R6 once the software upgrade adds better codec.  I'd also like DCI 4K as well, would be really nice.  Overheating is manageable.  For those who don't need to wrestle with the file sizes of 8K amd 120p 4K, the R6 is the better alternative.  Its not perfect, but it has fullframe over the Fuji cameras and better AF over both Fuji and Panasonic.  For the work I need from it, I can live with the cons.

My other alternative is Nikon, but the rumours on the updated specs haven't grabbed me.  

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

I'm not too bothered about the single card recording.  Its a small iritation for me. I hardly practise dual recording, even though I do Weddings and only a few cases of slightly corrupted footage.  In all cases, easy to workaround.  

I'm tempted by the R6 once the software upgrade adds better codec.  I'd also like DCI 4K as well, would be really nice.  Overheating is manageable.  For those who don't need to wrestle with the file sizes of 8K amd 120p 4K, the R6 is the better alternative.  Its not perfect, but it has fullframe over the Fuji cameras and better AF over both Fuji and Panasonic.  For the work I need from it, I can live with the cons.

My other alternative is Nikon, but the rumours on the updated specs haven't grabbed me.  

It's kind of funny, I just had a corrupted microSD card two days ago, only my 4th time encountering it. This was from a GoPro so I had no redundancy. Surprisingly in Windows 10 the Chkdsk /F command fixed the card; the file table was missing.  While I was on the job I pulled the microSD card from the drone and put it in the GoPro and the GoPro must have corrupted it.  I typically never do that and always format first using the gear that will write to the card but a storm was coming in and I didn't have time to backup the footage to the laptop then format the card in the GoPro.

One of my favorite features is dual slot recording, even though my drones and GoPro don't have it, their footage is typically easy to reshoot if needed anyway. Now though more reports are coming in that the R6 really does overheat during normal use so just when I almost rationalized one card recording....the overheating issue comes back to the forefront.  If it turns out that overheating really is a common thing for the R6 then it is definitely a no go for me. I am interested to see if moving the batteries to a battery grip will help the issue at all.

 

I think the IPB codec is not as bad as people are making it sound, I shoot LongGOP with the GH5 for smaller projects and no one notices or cares; YouTube does far worse to any footage than any modern camera. In the video below one guy talks quite a bit about the differences and reaches the same conclusion that I did years ago...no one will really notice the difference unless you are shooting a Hollywood blockbuster; even some of those have been shot on GoPros and iPhones:

 

 

[SteveV4D]

11 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

While I was on the job I pulled the microSD card from the drone and put it in the GoPro and the GoPro must have corrupted it.  I typically never do that and always format first using the gear that will write to the card but a storm was coming in and I didn't have time to backup the footage to the laptop then format the card in the GoPro.

 Now though more reports are coming in that the R6 really does overheat during normal use so just when I almost rationalized one card recording....the overheating issue comes back to the forefront.  

 

I think the IPB codec is not as bad as people are making it sound, I shoot LongGOP with the GH5 for smaller projects and no one notices or cares.

 

 

I never ever share cards between cameras.  I also use software to do a full format of the cards every once in awhile.  More to eliminate cases where the unmanned cameras stop recording for some reason.  But I have enough cards for each camera.

The overheating is a concern.  If its too bad, then the camera is a no go for me.  If at worst it gives me 30 mins, then I can work with it.  Its more for run n gun work where my Pocket cameras aren't the most suitable.  I use a GH5, but AF is bad and I don't lile it for the odd photo jobs I have to do.

As for the IPB, its not so much about look as about how easy it is to edit.  I've been spoilt with BRAW and H265 from my drone is a pain to edit.  Doesn’t take much grading before playback is choppy.

[herein2020]

33 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

I never ever share cards between cameras.  I also use software to do a full format of the cards every once in awhile.  More to eliminate cases where the unmanned cameras stop recording for some reason.  But I have enough cards for each camera.

The overheating is a concern.  If its too bad, then the camera is a no go for me.  If at worst it gives me 30 mins, then I can work with it.  Its more for run n gun work where my Pocket cameras aren't the most suitable.  I use a GH5, but AF is bad and I don't lile it for the odd photo jobs I have to do.

As for the IPB, its not so much about look as about how easy it is to edit.  I've been spoilt with BRAW and H265 from my drone is a pain to edit.  Doesn’t take much grading before playback is choppy.

I'm with you, I never do either, but the GoPro is a new addition and I haven't yet ordered storage for it...definitely not surprised at the corruption but it did remind me why I like dual recording.

If the R6 can survive a 95F 100% humidity day with 4K60FPS clips throughout the day and a mixture of photography as well then it could still work for me. So many factors make a thermal issue so unpredictable.

 

H.265 from the GoPro is really painful to edit, I create proxies for all drone and GoPro footage. Even my GH5 I have to create proxies for if I'm doing much more than simple cuts. I do like how little IPB and LongGOP use for storage but the tradeoff is definitely editing pain.

[gt3rs]

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

I never ever share cards between cameras.  I also use software to do a full format of the cards every once in awhile.  More to eliminate cases where the unmanned cameras stop recording for some reason.  But I have enough cards for each camera.

The overheating is a concern.  If its too bad, then the camera is a no go for me.  If at worst it gives me 30 mins, then I can work with it.  Its more for run n gun work where my Pocket cameras aren't the most suitable.  I use a GH5, but AF is bad and I don't lile it for the odd photo jobs I have to do.

As for the IPB, its not so much about look as about how easy it is to edit.  I've been spoilt with BRAW and H265 from my drone is a pain to edit.  Doesn’t take much grading before playback is choppy.

Did you see my thread on editing perf? h265 10bit ipb are faster and easy to edit than all-i in resolve. Make no sense to me but is like this, tested on 3 different machines same result.

So currently I use either RAW or IPB as I hate to transcode or do proxy.....

[herein2020]

16 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

Did you see my thread on editing perf? h265 10bit ipb are faster and easy to edit than all-i in resolve. Make no sense to me but is like this, tested on 3 different machines same result.

So currently I use either RAW or IPB as I hate to transcode or do proxy.....

That is very odd, Resolve completely chokes on H.265 out of the GoPro, but I think that is LongGOP. I haven't tried H.265 out of the drones, that's probably LongGOP as well. What is your source camera?  I kept building faster and faster machines and finally gave up and just create proxies for most of my footage now.

[Avenger 2.0]

4 hours ago, gt3rs said:

In the last 10 years I had 1 card failing (could recover something but not all) on me but I had 3 cameras failing so for me is more important a second camera than writing dual card in parallel. I do switch from 1 card to the other to make sure I don't have all in the same card.  On the R5 the problem is that the card type are different and on SD you don't have full access to all the recording mode. On 1Dx III is easy with two same card type.

Always have a spare body and lenses on a wedding. I understand what you are saying, but it just isn't only a card failing. You can have a camera stolen or just lose a sd card.
I keep one big sd card in the camera and rotate the second sd card (smaller size) often on the wedding day (and keep them on me).
That way you are protected against failure and theft. Had twice a corrupt card and once a camera theft. No failed body's yet.

[SteveV4D]

13 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

Did you see my thread on editing perf? h265 10bit ipb are faster and easy to edit than all-i in resolve. Make no sense to me but is like this, tested on 3 different machines same result.

So currently I use either RAW or IPB as I hate to transcode or do proxy.....

No I didn't.  That's interesting to know.  Like you I hate proxy; much prefer to work with originals.

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

Always have a spare body and lenses on a wedding. I understand what you are saying, but it just isn't only a card failing. You can have a camera stolen or just lose a sd card.
I keep one big sd card in the camera and rotate the second sd card (smaller size) often on the wedding day (and keep them on me).
That way you are protected against failure and theft. Had twice a corrupt card and once a camera theft. No failed body's yet.

I don't do many weddings (not my thing) but when I do,  the camera doesn't come off its strap and off my shoulder until the wedding is over and I never take the cards out for the whole event. I own just the 5DIV for photography and rent a second body when needed for events. The rental fee is in the invoice for the project. If the project is too small to afford the rental fee then my backup body is my timelapse camera a good old Canon Rebel T6s. With that said, I've never had a single failure in my 5DIV in 4yrs and my 5DIII for the 4yrs before that so not one Canon body failure in 8yrs.

[gt3rs]

8 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

That is very odd, Resolve completely chokes on H.265 out of the GoPro, but I think that is LongGOP. I haven't tried H.265 out of the drones, that's probably LongGOP as well. What is your source camera?  I kept building faster and faster machines and finally gave up and just create proxies for most of my footage now.

1Dx III so same format as R5 

 

[thebrothersthre3]

Dynamic range is a big deal to me. If the R6 has worse dynamic range than an XT3 I would never buy one.

I was kind of concerned about Codecs but I've found H265 edits well in HD or 2k, so that is a workaround considering I don't need 4k.