Canon EOS R5 overheating vs Panasonic S1H and Sigma Fp designs

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 7/14/2020 at 7:06 AM, rawshooter said:

This is not my point. My point is that Canon - as opposed to all other camera manufacturers that are not part of bigger electronics manufacturers (like Panasonic/Matsushita and Sony) literally manufactures its own chips, in its own three Japanese chip factories (they're listed on this Wikipedia page), which use completely dated processes and chip technology that is far behind current microchip technology.

This is the reason why Canon's electronics and sensor performance has been behind the rest of the industry (which mostly uses Sony sensors), why they noe have bigger heat problems than the rest of the industry - but also why Canon has been more profitable than other camera manufacturers in the past (because it didn't need to buy its chips from other manufacturers).

And changing chip process nodes are VERY expensive - each new chip fab expansion from Intel costs around US$ 5 to 10 billion (no, not a typo). Even AMD jettisoned their fabs (that became Global Foundries) and now their chips are made by third parties like TSMC. Panasonic sold their fabs some time ago, don't know who makes their camera chips now.

And moving to a new fab node needs a lot of investment in research too, And in a shrinking market, it is hard to justify; only if someone do it first the others will follow.

VERY interested to know more about the Sigma FP internals - for a such small company, what they've done is very impressive.

[rawshooter]

34 minutes ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

VERY interested to know more about the Sigma FP internals - for a such small company, what they've done is very impressive.

Sigma is a comparatively small family business, and AFAIK only assemble camera bodies in their own factory. The manufacturing of the electronics happens elsewhere. Since the fp uses Panasonic batteries (and the L-Mount co-engineered with Panasonic and Leica), one can almost be sure that the core electronics come from Panasonic, respectively the same factories that also produce the electronics for Panasonic cameras.

[theSUBVERSIVE]

On 7/14/2020 at 5:29 AM, Andrew Reid said:

I completely agree.

Canon thought the 8K and specs would outweigh the drawbacks of overheating problems.

We'll see however if this harms the Canon brand image for reliability, and how many of the target pro customers (EOS R5 in particular) return the camera within a month because they can't get through shoots.

It might end up being a non-issue, or it might end up hurting sales.

By the sounds of McKinnon though he is having a lot of problems.

We'll see.

And yes at least they were transparent about it and made the recording time figures available.

I don't think this will hurt their reputation because what could be worse than the complete lack of innovation from Canon regarding video on photo/hybrid cameras ever since they entered the Cinema market? Sony took more than two generations to get overheating completely right - spoiler alert: making the cameras bigger helped, who would have guessed that? - and people kept buying Sony anyway, if people are still willing to overlook Canon's past decade and get onboard again, at least they are bringing something new and compared to the last 5D, it's a big jump.

The bad part is that maybe even in 4K it might overheat, a compromise in 8K, something most people don't need, is more acceptable than in 4K, which is already the standard. But even with the overheating, at least they are pushing technology and competition forward, so despite the "catch" I see that as an overall positive for Canon - although their bar was set pretty low to begin with... hahahaha... But their latest Cinema camera were well received, the jump people expected from the previous generation in some models came now and reviews have been very positive. But we'll see...

Sony is relieved, at least they won't look that bad for not bringing more than 4K with the so-much-rumored-and-awaited A7SIII - since the S1H 6K still can't get AF right and Canon's 8K overheats. 

[PannySVHS]

Tested the S1 before using it for a more elaborated project, running more than 2hours with a USB powerbank in 30 degree Celsius recording 4K 10bit h265. Easy, not breaking a sweat.

[Sharathc47]

https://alikgriffin.com/canon-r5-overheating-with-cfexpress-card-are-the-cards-to-blame/

👀

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, Sharathc47 said:

https://alikgriffin.com/canon-r5-overheating-with-cfexpress-card-are-the-cards-to-blame/

👀

This is a good post.

CFExpress cards do get very hot to the touch. So not surprising to see that they have built in overheating protection.

However the EOS R5 is not alone in overheating. Other cameras without CFExpress do too.

And other cameras with CFExpress do not (1D X III).

So the main factor is not CFExpress.

I think CFExpress probably does contribute some heat into the innards of the EOS R5 and makes the problem a bit worse.

But the main problem is always going to be the throttling of the CPU. Just like in your laptop when it's over the thermal limits.

In place of the CFExpress card slot on the EOS R5 should have been a passive heat sink like the Sigma Fp.

And the CFExpress card slot should have its own tiny heatsink like M.2 SSD drives do in a PC.

A bit of a re-design would be required, but it could all still fit into a mirrorless camera body the size of the EOS R5.

They just haven't been proactive enough in wanting a solution.

They know that pros should get a Cinema EOS camera, and they want to keep it that way.

[Video Hummus]

52 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

They know that pros should get a Cinema EOS camera, and they want to keep it that way.

This is the single biggest contributing factor to why the EOS R5/6 are the way they are.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how to put a heat sink in. They could have had an exposed heat sink system on the back. To increase recording times maybe the compromise would be to have the screen flipped out. I get that they didn’t want to put a fan because they wanted to keep the ethos of the R5 the way it is. They still could have done a lot to make video work better for the specs they put in there. They decided not too. And we all know why. 

[Emanuel]

On 7/14/2020 at 10:55 PM, Lux Shots said:

Where did you hear that from? My S1H has a stabilized sensor, and the IBIS is like a virtual tripod!
 

 

Indeed, this is really impressive:

 

Here's another comparison as food for thought:

 

 

[Emanuel]

 

Interesting & uncertain conclusion from a S1H & R5 owner:

 

[Emanuel]

To those wondering on topic as much as me, here is:

 

[Andrew Reid]

My friend Emmanuel.

Please.

Stop the shitposting.

[Emanuel]

Sure, if you ask, I obviously will : )

I am in the market for that, you know... : D Wondering about the leftover to add there. This RF mount is completely new and expensive like hell as usual, they charge 2 grand for their new toys...

The good news is the good oldie EF ones do the job : ))

I've been in touch with other mates through PM, I thought this may serve some other people outside our inner circle :- )

[Andrew Reid]

Thank you. I just want this thread to stay on the topic of overheating workarounds, solutions, research, Magic Lantern and not what you're watching on YouTube.

[Emanuel]

I understand. I posted here because of that comparison with S1H IBIS which is clearly superior and once I was still looking for information on topic (EF lenses on this new mount they launched and I have zero glass to couple to their IBIS), followed the previous comparison.