Blackmagic casually announces 12K URSA Mini Pro Camera

[ade towell]

36 minutes ago, majoraxis said:

The footage is impressive! The more I see, the more I am sold on how special the image is.

I agree, of all the great cameras released recently I think this is the one with mojo

[IronFilm]

On 7/18/2020 at 7:40 AM, tupp said:

Plus, the RED patent is weak.  There is plenty of prior art in regards to wavelet compression of video.

Even a modestly weak patent is still a damn nuisance and stops development, it is very expensive to challenge a patent. 

Especially when the patent covers a niche area (that's the problem with Zaxcom's patents!) that you're not going to be able to recoup the costs easily from future sales. 

[anonim]

On 7/22/2020 at 8:24 PM, ade towell said:

I didn’t change these on my initial clips, but I have on these ones...

https://vimeo.com/440479199

Thanks for this note... I don't know what he changed, but difference for me is obvious. Somewhere in these threads my first reaction about first promo clip was that natural transitions of skin tone colors somehow for me didn't look so naturally unnoticed, or 'smooth', as in UMP G2 (especially in black skin tone)... As something was slightly off with some 'jumping' nuances, or fine but noticeable off color casts and lightening decisions... But this one last example is so enjoyable to watch and feel, something almost as paintеd work of portraiture - I mean as with some very rare tactile-illusion quality.

[newfoundmass]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Even a modestly weak patent is still a damn nuisance and stops development, it is very expensive to challenge a patent. 

Especially when the patent covers a niche area (that's the problem with Zaxcom's patents!) that you're not going to be able to recoup the costs easily from future sales. 

In tech I imagine it's also difficult to show a judge that has a limited understanding of the subject matter why these patents are bullshit. 

[ntblowz]

On 7/23/2020 at 6:24 AM, ade towell said:

https://vimeo.com/440479199

Which also by the way show the 8K and 4K modes 🙂

This the first time I heard about the 33fps, is that 33fps slowdown to 24? 

[kye]

Interesting take from Alex Jordan about the 12K and what it means for the industry.  

TL;DR: BM made a 12K camera that was editable on a laptop because they make the cameras and NLE, so can create their own file formats.  No-one else has both, so this is BM strategic advantage over all other manufacturers who have to co-operate in order to innovate like this.

 

[majoraxis]

I disagree with Alex on the necessity of having a 12k sensor as it supportS the RGBW 6 x 6 matrix sub sampling to get excellent 4K with outstanding color fidelity. 

[cameraeye]

I heard somewhere that (I think) the CEO of BM is a big fan of FCPX and that's why there are similarities between it and Resolve. I'm glad there's someone in the film world considering both sides of the filmmaking process. Clearly Canon didn't even test-edit even the 4K on the R5 given the reports of how impossible it is to edit without transcoding.

[kye]

50 minutes ago, cameraeye said:

I heard somewhere that (I think) the CEO of BM is a big fan of FCPX and that's why there are similarities between it and Resolve.

My understanding of FCPX is that it's pretty well designed for editing, which was the part that it was lacking prior to v12, so fan or not, it makes sense to go with established conventions.

People aren't aware of how many conventions have been set, but there's lots.  Imagine if every screen in a program had the menu options somewhere different instead of them staying in the same place, or every dialog box had the buttons in a different location or different order rather than OK/Cancel.  Or someone abandoned the File - Edit - View - .... - Window - Help style menu structure and went with their own one.  I remember custom software like that, and every time you clicked something you had to stare at it like you were trying to understand a treasure map!

Standards are either created by corporate committees or by people copying the good things from each other, I know which one tends to work out in the best user experience! 

[cameraeye]

51 minutes ago, kye said:

Imagine if every screen in a program had the menu options somewhere different instead of them staying in the same place, or every dialog box had the buttons in a different location or different order rather than OK/Cancel.  Or someone abandoned the File - Edit - View - .... - Window - Help style menu structure and went with their own one.  I remember custom software like that, and every time you clicked something you had to stare at it like you were trying to understand a treasure map!

This is my pet-peeve with the occasional software, especially when it uses its own file browser and doesn't hook into the Mac OS one. With Resolve I was more referring to the look and feel of the editing workspace.

[anonim]

16 hours ago, kye said:

Interesting take from Alex Jordan about the 12K and what it means for the industry.  

TL;DR: BM made a 12K camera that was editable on a laptop because they make the cameras and NLE, so can create their own file formats.  No-one else has both, so this is BM strategic advantage over all other manufacturers who have to co-operate in order to innovate like this.

 

I think Jordan's conclusion is already long ago pretty obvious.  IMO we have to be bored jumpers from one to the next hybrid camera offer or strongly biased to not to see that few years from now BM will probably totally dominate in whole indie (and even above) movie making field. Their price strategy, long foreseeing in decisions, excellent timing (BM obviously will develop several lower iteration of 12k sensor) are so firmly founded. It could be easy that BM is only manufacturer with progressive profit. All in all, T think that BM final vision is enriched and plus-motivated with little bit of nice messianism, which is great - to actually revolutionize, democratize and brought creative process of movie making as whole to unbelievable art-for-all level of easiness and full sequence of  affordability  steps (pretty close high IQ wise cameras + codec + editing + composing +audio VFX).

Say, grateful to J. Brawley's disclosure it is known that Pocket 4K was tool to accomplish one of the crucial task in biggest budget production - shooting erotic scenes in full period drama (so I guess many demanding close ups,  important 'body language' choreographic underlining of plots) intercutting seamlessly with Alexa SXT and UMPG2

https://www.redsharknews.com/john-brawley-interview-ursa-mini-pro-and-alexa-join-forces-on-the-great

[kye]

10 hours ago, cameraeye said:

This is my pet-peeve with the occasional software, especially when it uses its own file browser and doesn't hook into the Mac OS one. With Resolve I was more referring to the look and feel of the editing workspace.

I understood you were referring to the editing workspace, and so was I as well.  The modern NLE has many conventions - if someone completely new to video came in and designed their own it would look completely different.  Even things like calling folders "bins" because of the physical objects used to store and manage strips of celluloid is part of those conventions.  And inn the context of things being easy to understand and useful, it's great that they do all look similar.

5 hours ago, anonim said:

I think Jordan's conclusion is already long ago pretty obvious.  IMO we have to be bored jumpers from one to the next hybrid camera offer or strongly biased to not to see that few years from now BM will probably totally dominate in whole indie (and even above) movie making field. Their price strategy, long foreseeing in decisions, excellent timing (BM obviously will develop several lower iteration of 12k sensor) are so firmly founded. It could be easy that BM is only manufacturer with progressive profit. All in all, T think that BM final vision is enriched and plus-motivated with little bit of nice messianism, which is great - to actually revolutionize, democratize and brought creative process of movie making as whole to unbelievable art-for-all level of easiness and full sequence of  affordability  steps (pretty close high IQ wise cameras + codec + editing + composing +audio VFX).

Say, grateful to J. Brawley's disclosure it is known that Pocket 4K was tool to accomplish one of the crucial task in biggest budget production - shooting erotic scenes in full period drama (so I guess many demanding close ups,  important 'body language' choreographic underlining of plots) intercutting seamlessly with Alexa SXT and UMPG2

https://www.redsharknews.com/john-brawley-interview-ursa-mini-pro-and-alexa-join-forces-on-the-great

I also thought they were obvious, but it wasn't something really being talked about so I posted it.

I don't agree that it will only be a few years before BM is huge, but they're definitely making the right decisions to grow and become a bigger player.  

[Super8]

On 7/25/2020 at 10:29 AM, anonim said:

Thanks for this note... I don't know what he changed, but difference for me is obvious. Somewhere in these threads my first reaction about first promo clip was that natural transitions of skin tone colors somehow for me didn't look so naturally unnoticed, or 'smooth', as in UMP G2 (especially in black skin tone)... As something was slightly off with some 'jumping' nuances, or fine but noticeable off color casts and lightening decisions... But this one last example is so enjoyable to watch and feel, something almost as paintеd work of portraiture - I mean as with some very rare tactile-illusion quality.

It looks like the same footage except color corrected that took our IR pollution in Resolve.  It has the same window scene that I cleaned up and posted about.

By the way I like the BM12K camera a lot more now.

[cameraeye]

19 hours ago, kye said:

I understood you were referring to the editing workspace, and so was I as well.  The modern NLE has many conventions - if someone completely new to video came in and designed their own it would look completely different.  Even things like calling folders "bins" because of the physical objects used to store and manage strips of celluloid is part of those conventions.  And inn the context of things being easy to understand and useful, it's great that they do all look similar.

Funnily enough FCPX doesn’t use the term ‘bins’ since its redesign. And the convention changes (other than missing features) were what caused the uproar with its initial release. I agree there are conventions in everything especially software, but Premiere for example is much more steeped in old conventions vs FCPX (think magnetic timeline), and Resolve is somewhere in between in my experience.

I am also glad we have (good) conventions.

[ade towell]

Some gorgeous shots by Note.

This camera is the most interesting of all the new releases imho, am bored of the overheating mess that is Canon, and the disappointingly video like images of the A7s3. 

[zerocool22]

5 hours ago, ade towell said:

Some gorgeous shots by Note.

This camera is the most interesting of all the new releases imho, am bored of the overheating mess that is Canon, and the disappointingly video like images of the A7s3. 

The 10k pricetag is not for the masses though. But I agree, best image of maybe sub 20k cameras.

[SteveV4D]

1 hour ago, zerocool22 said:

The 10k pricetag is not for the masses though. But I agree, best image of maybe sub 20k cameras.

The masses get the R5 and R6 and the best of luck to them... 

[Yannick Willox]

Yes, but even with 3 r5 cams you cannot do one shoot ...

a 12k ursa is actually cheaper ...

same goes for the glass if you already have it !

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, zerocool22 said:

The 10k pricetag is not for the masses though. But I agree, best image of maybe sub 20k cameras.

Only sub 20K cameras...? ;- )

[SteveV4D]

59 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said:

Yes, but even with 3 r5 cams you cannot do one shoot ...

a 12k ursa is actually cheaper ...

same goes for the glass if you already have it !

Oddly enough, someone on DpReview suggested that if you were a Professional,  you'd buy 3 of the R5s and use them on a Professional shoot.  Thus getting round the overheating problem.  

It would of course be cheaper to buy a dedicated video camera like the URSA and better value too.