Blackmagic casually announces 12K URSA Mini Pro Camera

[Bandido]

The cruise ship video in the demo is the best example of how people can benefit from 12k even if they only intent to distribute in HD. I am thinking that I only going to need one wide prime lens to cover all the focal lengths.😊

[Danyyyel]

I

13 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

Have you even watched the BM video? They are doing in sensor scaling of a 3x3 bayer array. That gives you 4:4:4 4K output from the sensor. The image is as nice or nicer than anything you can shoot with now.

You mean the one where everyone is in the shadows under a winter sun, yes we are in winter here in the southern hemisphere. Aslo that is super dark in the night seen. Yes I have seen those.

[Super8]

1 hour ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

It was shot from our own @John Brawley, if people come back to treat him well here he could give some useful insights.

Maybe even for the troll of the other thread which says that a camera without IBIS or PDAF is not useful...

No one's a troll except maybe your attitude towards someone else that has a different opinion than you. 

IBIS and PDAF are useful tools especially in the $1,500 to $4,000 camera range market.  

You talk about people treating @John Brawley good so he'll come back but you call someone else a troll and talk down to that person.   That's hypocritical.

[Alt Shoo]

1 hour ago, Danyyyel said:

That's a joke, what pro's will burden themselves on 12k.

🙋🏾‍♂️

[Video Hummus]

48 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

I

You mean the one where everyone is in the shadows under a winter sun, yes we are in winter here in the southern hemisphere. Aslo that is super dark in the night seen. Yes I have seen those.

Not what I’m talking about, but whatever. This is waste of time.

[Super8]

38 minutes ago, Super8 said:

 

Quote

2 hours ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

It was shot from our own @John Brawley, if people come back to treat him well here he could give some useful insights.

Maybe even for the troll of the other thread which says that a camera without IBIS or PDAF is not useful...

Above is a link of @John Brawley talking about how useful IBIS or PDAF are on the E-M1 III, and how HE LOVED working with it. 

He said he "got shots with the E-M1 III that he couldn't get with a different style of camera" (cine rig)

[BrooklynDan]

Color really does look nice with lovely skin tones and separation. Can't really judge 12K sharpness and resolution on my 1080p computer screen, but I'm sure it's all there. I really hope that BMD seriously upgrade their reliability and build quality. If they want to compete with the big boys, they need to make cameras that rental houses can buy and rent to customers. A lot of rental houses, particularly the bigger ones, won't go anywhere near Black Magic because the bodies simply don't hold up to on-set use. They need to move away from chintzy plastic to durable aluminum and magnesium.

This is not going to put a dent in Arri's armor. Crews love the Mini LF and it's going to keep working for the next five years at least. Red is gonna see a bit more of a hit, but they're on their way down anyway. I doubt that they're going to make it to the end of the 2020s unless their attitude and business practices change considerably.

What I would REALLY love to see is how the Ursa 12K holds up on an IMAX screen. Now that is one area where the full 12K resolution will come in handy. Somebody send one to Christopher Nolan, LOL.

[thebrothersthre3]

Its not about 12k its about getting really good 8k which is one of the first things mentioned in the Blackmagic announcement. RED has certainly thrived on the high resolution front. 

Forgetting about who uses 8k or who might use 12k lets look at what this camera actually offers for the price. 

12k at 60fps

8k at 120fps

6k at 120fps

4k at 120fps

4k cropped at 220fps

vs The RED helium

8k at 60 fps 
6k at 75 fps 
5k at 96 fps 
4k at 120 fps 
3k at 150 fps 
2k at 240 fps 

Keep in mind all the lower resolutions on the RED are cropping in on the sensor, greatly limiting the usability. The RED S35 helium also costs $24,500 plus the cost of RED mags. 

We need to see the Dynamic range and low light performance coming out of the URSA 12K. If it keeps up with the helium in those two categories then it really will be something for RED to be afraid of IMHO. Lets also consider the amazing rolling shutter performance. 

Its less than half the price of a RED, with cheaper storage, and seems to just be a better camera in every way. 

So far Black magic really hasn't put anything out there that was this competitive. I think the Pocket 6k could have been very competitive but no one could really take it seriously with the weird ass "Pocket style" body. 

I am hearing great things about GEN 5 color science too. It sounds like the sort of brown muddy color issue is gone, greens are vibrant, and no more neon blue color clipping. Unfortunately the Resolve update with Gen 5 is only available for Mac right now. 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

2 hours ago, Super8 said:

Above is a link of @John Brawley talking about how useful IBIS or PDAF are on the E-M1 III, and how HE LOVED working with it. 

He said he "got shots with the E-M1 III that he couldn't get with a different style of camera" (cine rig)

I'm in  the camp that thinks that PDAF and IBIS are very useful - still thinking in get a E-M1 MKII or M5 MK III just because of these two points.

Just did not call an Alexa not useful because don''t have both. Could not be useful for me, but don't make the camera unusable.

[hijodeibn]

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

Above is a link of @John Brawley talking about how useful IBIS or PDAF are on the E-M1 III, and how HE LOVED working with it. 

He said he "got shots with the E-M1 III that he couldn't get with a different style of camera" (cine rig)

It really concerns me how people here is so fascinated with this new camera from Blackmagic which they are never going to buy because of they do not have the money, it is a waste of time, this camera is for a crew, yes, we will have some crazy guy going SOLO with this camera, but the performance will never be close to what a crew could achieve. What jumped Blackmagic to the eyes of the people was the development of cameras which are affordable for the indie/student shooter, medium and big productions will never switch to Blackmagic because of the reliability of their cameras, Blackmagic has an history, their cameras can work well, or bad, you never know, nobody in a big job is ever going to risk a day of shooting using the less reliable camera in the market, that's the reason Alexas dominate the market, and in second place we have RED. The target for this camera clearly is medium size productions, but I do not see it eaten a big portion of the market, since there are already other very good options out there. So guys, really, don't waste your time, you are not going to buy this camera, never, you will wait for the new pocket 8K or whatever come next.

[maxmizer]

5 hours ago, Nikkor said:

E questo contraddice la mia assunzione in qualche modo?

Forse sei uno di quei ragazzi che scattano con orgoglio foto di 48 megapixel con il suo cellulare.

hahaha no little boy

[Super8]

18 minutes ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

I'm in  the camp that thinks that PDAF and IBIS are very useful - still thinking in get a E-M1 MKII or M5 MK III just because of these two points.

Just did not call an Alexa not useful because don''t have both. Could not be useful for me, but don't make the camera unusable.

IBIS and PDAF is not an option for Alexa users or other high end rigs.  

The blow back was IBIS is not needed and PDAF is not used by professionals.

[thebrothersthre3]

55 minutes ago, hijodeibn said:

It really concerns me how people here is so fascinated with this new camera from Blackmagic which they are never going to buy because of they do not have the money

Why does it concern you lol? I am not in the market for this camera but I am happy to see Blackmagic going after a bigger market. 

This camera is obviously targeted to those that would rent or buy an RED helium and probably anyone who might consider a RED in general. Reputations can change, RED has had a long history of reliability issues and they have overcome it. I am sure Blackmagic can as well especially considering this is their first camera targeting a higher end market. At the end of the day professionals aren't going to turn down more usability at a lower cost. The question really is if Blackmagic has their quality control down. 

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, hijodeibn said:

It really concerns me how people here is so fascinated with this new camera from Blackmagic which they are never going to buy because of they do not have the money, it is a waste of time, this camera is for a crew, yes, we will have some crazy guy going SOLO with this camera, but the performance will never be close to what a crew could achieve. What jumped Blackmagic to the eyes of the people was the development of cameras which are affordable for the indie/student shooter, medium and big productions will never switch to Blackmagic because of the reliability of their cameras, Blackmagic has an history, their cameras can work well, or bad, you never know, nobody in a big job is ever going to risk a day of shooting using the less reliable camera in the market, that's the reason Alexas dominate the market, and in second place we have RED. The target for this camera clearly is medium size productions, but I do not see it eaten a big portion of the market, since there are already other very good options out there. So guys, really, don't waste your time, you are not going to buy this camera, never, you will wait for the new pocket 8K or whatever come next.

It concerns me how upset you are about this camera. We get it. Move on.

[hijodeibn]

Just now, newfoundmass said:

It concerns me how upset you are about this camera. 

upset about this camera ?, do not care less, maybe upset that BM didn't bring a better tool for the indie/solo shooter. I was expecting a new pocket.

[dslnc]

Since this camera doesn’t have a bayer sensor means that BRAW is not violating RED’s patents, right?

 

[newfoundmass]

17 minutes ago, hijodeibn said:

upset about this camera ?, do not care less, maybe upset that BM didn't bring a better tool for the indie/solo shooter. I was expecting a new pocket.

You've literally been spending the last day capping on it and bashing it, while arguing with people that are interested in it. That's not the behavior of someone that couldn't care less. Move on dude. 

[Leica50mm]

Quote

John Brawley on Reduser today : 

I have some 8k stuff that's really nice I'll push out in a few days...it doesn't disappoint. There was a debate about kicking off with the 8K stuff as the first footage to show....;-)

 

[tupp]

12k?   Meh... I'll keep using my Forza 18K camera from 2014.

 

The resolution and frame rates do absolutely nothing for me.

 

On the other hand, if this camera is using a striped RGB CMOS sensor, that IS notable!  The striped RGB CCD sensors always looked good, especially on the Sony S35.

 

Does anyone see where Blackmagic states that the camera actually utilizes a striped RGB filter on the sensor?  I suspect that they are being creative with their claims here, and could be using a Bayer filter with a twist on the low-level RGB conversion the A-D converter.

[thebrothersthre3]

35 minutes ago, dslnc said:

Since this camera doesn’t have a bayer sensor means that BRAW is not violating RED’s patents, right?

 

BRAW never violated RED's patents as its not true RAW. CDNG did though