majoraxis Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I imagine people will shoot to different resolutions depend on how the NR process works with the subsampling. We may find 12k to 6k subsample saves a stop of noise and 12k to 4k saves 1.5 stops of noise. Maybe not.. I think there is going to be best case scenarios that will set this camera apart even further from the crowd. What Blackmagic needs to do is give the configurations and expected performance outcomes upfront so that going in people know how to get the most out of the camera in low light. ...Or maybe it is best to shoot 12k and then noise reduce and downscale in camera. Hopefully it will be good in low light natively and there will be little amount of noise to deal with in the first place. That would be a nice change. This said with appreciation that the Pocket 6k is excellent in low light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hijodeibn Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 14 hours ago, IronFilm said: Which will then push down UMP G1 prices 😉 Which will then push down UM4.6K prices! Yay, finally I can afford one. So yes, everyone please go buy a UMP 12K ASAP! an UM4.6K ending in 4 hours on eBay now around $2K, and most probably will end below $2.5K. looks like a good price! https://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-Blackmagic-Design-URSA-Mini-4-6K-Digital-Cinema-Camera-PL-Mount-FREE-2-DAY/184362250905?hash=item2aecd8b299:g:iSAAAOSwsQ5e-Umk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanWright Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Theres an OG EF 4.6k on eBay here in the UK for £1890! Similar price as the Pocket 6k now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tupp Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 22 hours ago, rawshooter said: Its real point is that it doesn't have a 2x2 Bayer matrix (as in my avatar on the left), but a 3x3 RGB matrix where all three colors are equally present. Does Blackmagic actually claim that the sensor uses an RGB filter? Also, if it is an RGB filter, wouldn't the matrix be 3x1 (but staggered?) -- similar to a striped RGB filters that we've seen on CCD sensors? If Blackmagic doesn't state that they are actually using an RGB filter, I suspect that they are doing a low level "twist" on a Bayer filter and using creative marketing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Y’all should read johnbrawley.wordpress.com it answers a lot of the assumptions in this thread. tupp, JordanWright, majoraxis and 1 other 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tupp Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, Alt Shoo said: Y’all should read johnbrawley.wordpress.com it answers a lot of the assumptions in this thread. Thanks for the link! Quote From the John Brawley blog post: Instead of the typical 2×2 grid size that you have on a Bayer sensor of GRBG we now have in the same space a 6×6 grid that has 6G, 6R and 6B as well as 18W pixels. Okay. So, this is an interesting approach! RGBW sensors have appeared before, but not in this arrangement. A 6x6 cell seems a little unwieldy and complex -- there was nothing wrong with the simple 3x1 RGB sensor on the Sony F35. However, if Blackmagic made the filter work and if the results are good, I would like to try it. I just wish that they would offer this type of sensor in a lower resolution, on a less expensive and more versatile camera body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 From people who worked on Life of Pi they need 12-16k resolution for background Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hijodeibn Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 34 minutes ago, tupp said: I just wish that they would offer this type of sensor in a lower resolution, on a less expensive and more versatile camera body. totally agree, I hope BM make sense and provide a tool with this new sensor to the indie/solo shooter which is and has been its major customer market. tupp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawshooter Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 hours ago, tupp said: Does Blackmagic actually claim that the sensor uses an RGB filter? They do, in their product release video. tupp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Alt Shoo said: Y’all should read johnbrawley.wordpress.com it answers a lot of the assumptions in this thread. Why is @John Brawley being pushed on us so much across the EOS and the net today? I thought real DP's don't hang out on the EOS? The proof will be in the footage not how technical someone talks about the NEW sensor. Let @John Brawley compare the BM12K to Alexa, RED and Venice and see if it falls apart. How much you wanna bet he never does that test? I really don't need a BM cheerleader to push their cameras. newfoundmass, Logan, Video Hummus and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, Super8 said: Why is @John Brawley being pushed on us so much across the EOS and the net today? I thought real DP's don't hang out on the EOS? The proof will be in the footage not how technical someone talks about the NEW sensor. Let @John Brawley compare the BM12K to Alexa, RED and Venice and see if it falls apart. How much you wanna bet he never does that test? I really don't need a BM cheerleader to push their cameras. Sorry about this post guys. I was a little harsh and came off as an asshole. I don't like the magenta cast on @John Brawley 12K footage. His technical break down about the sensor was awesome and @John Brawley does some incredible work. Marcio Kabke Pinheiro, Snowfun and majoraxis 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Alt Shoo said: Y’all should read johnbrawley.wordpress.com it answers a lot of the assumptions in this thread. Thanks for sharing. That's a fantastic write-up by @John Brawley. majoraxis and Alt Shoo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Definitely a great read! I honestly didn’t want it to end. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Lets wait and see when some footage becomes downloadable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said: Lets wait and see when some footage becomes downloadable. Footage is available here: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/blackmagicursaminipro Scroll down to the Colour Science heading and there's three clips. tupp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ade towell Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Super8 said: Why is @John Brawley being pushed on us so much across the EOS and the net today? I thought real DP's don't hang out on the EOS? The proof will be in the footage not how technical someone talks about the NEW sensor. Let @John Brawley compare the BM12K to Alexa, RED and Venice and see if it falls apart. How much you wanna bet he never does that test? I really don't need a BM cheerleader to push their cameras. Your ignorance is overwhelming. And I thought you were a real DP the way you big yourself up in that hot air way of yours John Brawley uses BM cameras with Alexa all the time on real sets on big productions. Check out this recent thread for example on dvxuser, the guy is a fountain of knowledge http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?367345-John-Brawley-s-quot-The-Great-quot-on-Hulu&highlight=brawley Martin83 and newfoundmass 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Here is a good read on the myths of this technology. http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2020/07/image-algorithmics-on-rgbw-color-filter.html kye and tupp 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Alt Shoo said: Here is a good read on the myths of this technology. http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2020/07/image-algorithmics-on-rgbw-color-filter.html Great article, and answers some of the question about how good the downscaling in-sensor may be, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hijodeibn Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 14 hours ago, ade towell said: Your ignorance is overwhelming. And I thought you were a real DP the way you big yourself up in that hot air way of yours John Brawley uses BM cameras with Alexa all the time on real sets on big productions. Check out this recent thread for example on dvxuser, the guy is a fountain of knowledge http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?367345-John-Brawley-s-quot-The-Great-quot-on-Hulu&highlight=brawley it is really bad to continue reading here people complaining about John Brawley for no reason, I didn't like the new BM camera at all, for many reasons, but the knowledge John provides for free in different forums is something that really almost nobody do, and people still complain, that is something I do not understand, good thing Super8 retracted somehow immediately, let's hope people understand and we will never see something like that again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 16 hours ago, ade towell said: Your ignorance is overwhelming. And I thought you were a real DP the way you big yourself up in that hot air way of yours John Brawley uses BM cameras with Alexa all the time on real sets on big productions. Check out this recent thread for example on dvxuser, the guy is a fountain of knowledge http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?367345-John-Brawley-s-quot-The-Great-quot-on-Hulu&highlight=brawley I did say this: Quote Super8 said: Sorry about this post guys. I was a little harsh and came off as an asshole. I don't like the magenta cast on @John Brawley 12K footage. His technical break down about the sensor was awesome and @John Brawley does some incredible work. John does great wonderful work. I have no problem with saying that. His blog post about the BM12k was great and I said that. Magenta cut on his footage is not great. The "first thing a camera should do is make fantastic pictures". hijodeibn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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