Highly contradictory reviews on EOS R6 overheating limitation

[abehalpert]

47 minutes ago, wondo said:

two things really puzzle me when i read through these posts.

a: i don`t think anyone is forced to buy this camera but a lot of the posts read like people already did and now live in a constant nightmare.

People are upset because the hype was so grand.

Also I heard a rumor that R5 overheating caused the coronavirus outbreak 😉 bad joke

[Nezza]

The bollock that Canon have dropped is the marketing messages suggested the opposite of what appears to be the case, that these cameras were reliable. Expectations that *they* set appear not to have been met. This is why people get pissed off.

By the end of this week we should have detailed tests by multiple people and know the score. If it is as bad as early tests indicate, Canon's brand will take a severe kicking. Sony will be rubbing their hands. 

[phoberus]

12 hours ago, sanveer said:

Whoa. That's probably the most controversial remark yet. You could be right, though. 

A few changes to the GH5 and GH5s, starting with PDAF, and everyone would rush to Panasonic. 

Worked with the GH5s a week ago, I shot with manual focus but tested the AF a little bit and it was better then I expected. I googled and found out, that they fixed the AF like a half year ago (it's not on PD level, but usable for some situations). GH6 with IBIS, PDAF and more MP would be a dream

[sanveer]

33 minutes ago, phoberus said:

GH6 with IBIS, PDAF and more MP would be a dream

Couldn't agree more. PDAF can give Panasonic even better autofocus (on par with Canon and Sony). 

24MP MAR Sensor for GH6, and an even larger sensor 12MP for GH6s (than the GH5s). 

[Video Hummus]

2 hours ago, phoberus said:

Worked with the GH5s a week ago, I shot with manual focus but tested the AF a little bit and it was better then I expected. I googled and found out, that they fixed the AF like a half year ago (it's not on PD level, but usable for some situations). GH6 with IBIS, PDAF and more MP would be a dream

I think the G9 is even slightly better. So something that is a 30% improvement on the G9 is the minimum needed if they continue down the road with DfD.

I mean in some cases the G9 is on par or better than the XT-4, which currently suffers from a lot of AF issues.

If they want to shake the stigma of bad AF they need to go PDAF and have something that performs with their competition. 

[Andrew Reid]

It just keeps getting more and more ridiculous.

What was Jordan Drake doing in the EOS R6 review saying it's fine for 1 hour of oversampled 4K.... Is that what counts as a review on the most high profile digital photography site now... turn camera on for an hour, have a beer, come back?

Total BS

By the way I just re-bought a Panasonic G9, after sold my original ages ago. Will be checking out the new AF and 10bit 4K. The handling is superb.

3 hours ago, Nezza said:

The bollock that Canon have dropped is the marketing messages suggested the opposite of what appears to be the case, that these cameras were reliable. Expectations that *they* set appear not to have been met. This is why people get pissed off.

By the end of this week we should have detailed tests by multiple people and know the score. If it is as bad as early tests indicate, Canon's brand will take a severe kicking. Sony will be rubbing their hands. 

It isn't just about marketing it.

It is about people spending thousands of dollars and expecting to use the key headline features.

Sure, Canon could have marketed it as a line skipping 4k camera with just the low quality modes, and completely disabled the exotic features.

But then that wouldn't sell many cameras would it?

And if you are implying Canon should release the camera with 8K and not market it as 8K or even mention it, you are living in cloud cookoo land!

[newfoundmass]

I'd like to hear more from Jordan about his test and how he came to that conclusion, but nothing will top Matti putting the camera in the fridge to make sure it's cold MULTIPLE TIMES and then in the same video telling people afterwards that he doesn't think overheating will be an issue for most people. 

[Oliver Daniel]

46 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It just keeps getting more and more ridiculous.

What was Jordan Drake doing in the EOS R6 review saying it's fine for 1 hour of oversampled 4K.... Is that what counts as a review on the most high profile digital photography site now... turn camera on for an hour, have a beer, come back?

Total BS

By the way I just re-bought a Panasonic G9, after sold my original ages ago. Will be checking out the new AF and 10bit 4K. The handling is superb.

It isn't just about marketing it.

It is about people spending thousands of dollars and expecting to use the key headline features.

Sure, Canon could have marketed it as a line skipping 4k camera with just the low quality modes, and completely disabled the exotic features.

But then that wouldn't sell many cameras would it?

And if you are implying Canon should release the camera with 8K and not market it as 8K or even mention it, you are living in cloud cookoo land!

Canon: “Our new R5  will have full frame 8K RAW and 4k120fps 10 bit, no crop.”

Pana / Sony: “Oh shit! What cooling system does it have?”

Canon: “A stick-on fan from Tilta.” 

Youtube: “The BEST cameras for CINEMATIC footage EVER. PERIOD. GRAIL.” 

[phoberus]

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

I think the G9 is even slightly better. So something that is a 30% improvement on the G9 is the minimum needed if they continue down the road with DfD.

I mean in some cases the G9 is on par or better than the XT-4, which currently suffers from a lot of AF issues.

If they want to shake the stigma of bad AF they need to go PDAF and have something that performs with their competition. 

One year ago, there were some reports about a Time of Flight camera sensor in Panasonic cams. I think it's realistic to hope for better AF in the GH6. I would picked uf the X-T4, but doesn't suit me because of the AF and the overheat. It would have been appropriate because I still have an X-T1 with the 18-55mm lens. But the Fuji AF really depends on the lens, I think the 18-55mm is not so bad. But it does not come close to Sony and Canon.

[Yurolov]

17 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I'd like to hear more from Jordan about his test and how he came to that conclusion, but nothing will top Matti putting the camera in the fridge to make sure it's cold MULTIPLE TIMES and then in the same video telling people afterwards that he doesn't think overheating will be an issue for most people. 

That's out of context. He said he got 8 min of 8k in a hot car. So he tested in less than ideal conditions. He put it in the fridge to emphasis that it did overheat. 

[newfoundmass]

6 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

That's out of context. He said he got 8 min of 8k in a hot car. So he tested in less than ideal conditions. He put it in the fridge to emphasis that it did overheat. 

No its not. He did it and then proceeded to tell people that he didn't think it'd be an issue for most people, just as I said. Watch the video again. 

BTW, are you gonna just down vote every post I make or nah? 

[Video Hummus]

The fact that Matti even put a professional mirrorless camera in the fridge and then recommends it is a sign the product has problems and the “review” was bullshit.. Did he do that with his EOS R? I’m sorry but they are blowing smoke up your asses. If he did that with any other camera from another brand you know he wouldn’t recommend it. This is the problem with sponsored reviews on YouTube. They are anti-consumer.

[Lenscamera]

7 hours ago, sanveer said:

It's all in the head. One of the issues that M43 must sort is the pipeline. It should either be 14-bit, or better still, 16-bit. It may help with the whole highlight rolloff (apart from reworking the algorithms and changing rhe VLog to the full version). 

They have way better rolling shutter, way better battery life, and generally much higher reliability. And frame rates could be pushed, even beyond what the GH5s and XT4 do (they do 1080p at 240fps).

Most people agree that PDAF is the biggest shortcoming right now. In pretty much everything in Mirrorless, M43 has been the pioneer. 

Hope I don't derail this thread but no, it's not all in the head. I have had the  Panasonic GH1, 2, and 3. I have briefly had the Sony A6300, and the Fuji XT-1. Have used a lot my friend's Nikon D7100, D750, and Sony A7 III. I have use those for personal and paid work. 

In a practical example, I have photos of my dad who recently passed that I took in 2011 with the GH2. In trying to put together a tribute to him, I found pictures of him that was taken in 2018 with a D750. I had to crop a picture a lot to get a nice portrait of him. The heavily crop D750 picture still look good compared to the GH2 especially as I had to print it on 23x23 inches. 

I also use my cameras a lot for travel photography and video. When I look at my photos taken over many years with different cameras, I like a lot those taken with my Z6. Low light photos are better, dynamic range better, skin tones better, highlight recovery better, the overall look of the full frame pictures just look better in my eyes. So no, I'm never going back to a crop sensor especially for stills. 

If Panasonic was to come out with a great GH6/s with PDAF, I will wait for them to get it to their S lineup to get onboard. Or maybe by that time Nikon would have come out with the rumored Z6s with good PDAF or Sony A7 IV comes out with good video specs. That's why I was getting excited for R6. Basically I want a good hybrid mirrorless full frame camera that I can take with me along with 2 or 3 lenses when I travel. 

[Video Hummus]

I have seen 16x20 and 20x24 prints from G9 and EM1 mark 2 (20MP) and they looked amazing. Most magazines are printing 20MP photos from 1DX and A9. They look good.

Obviously if you start cropping 16MP stills from the GH2 you’ll encounter problems at 20x24 More generally, 20MP photos printed properly are more than enough for those sizes. Billboards have been printed with less. It’s all about viewing distance, printing techniques and the like.

This guy has experience and knows what he’s talking about. M43 is fine when doing slight crops of an original.

 

Ok, I don’t want to de-rail the topic either. But the perception that M43 isn’t capable at all is false. Obiviously having more MP is a “nice to have” but it is far from a requirement! /rant

[phoberus]

20 minutes ago, Lenscamera said:

That's why I was getting excited for R6. Basically I want a good hybrid mirrorless full frame camera that I can take with me along with 2 or 3 lenses when I travel. 

That's why I was also exited for the R6. But I would disagree that M43 is basically worse. The price difference to full format is also quite big with the lenses and to travel it needs more space. Both has advantages and disadvantages.

[Emanuel]

5 hours ago, wondo said:

problem solved 🙂

 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/07/26/tilta-cooling-kit-for-the-canon-eos-r5/

The question now is to know how to properly overcome the settings limitation in-camera restricted by Canon... Stop the recording each 14 minutes 59 seconds or 19 minutes 59 seconds, respectively, as for instance to keep it rolling?

[Nezza]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It isn't just about marketing it.

It is about people spending thousands of dollars and expecting to use the key headline features.

That was my point, Canon incorrectly set expectations through the release marketing then fail to deliver in the product = pissed off customers.
 

Quote

Sure, Canon could have marketed it as a line skipping 4k camera with just the low quality modes, and completely disabled the exotic features.

But then that wouldn't sell many cameras would it?

I think the key issue is Canon just needs to deliver what it promises, because mass returns, brand damage and lawsuits are very real possibilities. 

Quote

And if you are implying Canon should release the camera with 8K and not market it as 8K or even mention it, you are living in cloud cookoo land!

 I'm implying no such thing! They just need deliver on their claims.

[newfoundmass]

"I think for most people the overheating is actually really insignificant and you'll probably never have to deal with it." - Matti Haapoja at 11:55 in the video. 

Anyone that says that, whether they're paid directly or not, is a shill. You have a responsibility, when people are looking at you to make purchasing decisions, to be blunt and not try to protect your relationship with a company at the expense of your viewers. 

Matti even starts off the video trying to dispel the notion that he's a Canon shill, ignoring the fact that even if he isn't paid directly by Canon and has turned down a business relationship with them, he still profits through YouTube revenue and the access he is given, which has helped him reach nearly a million subscribers. He clearly has benefitted from it, has no problem being used in Canon's marketing machine, and makes excuses and heaps praise on Canon. 

I mean he even said he's GLAD they didn't add any active cooling, like a fan, to the camera before bashing Sony ("I couldn't even live stream with the A7iii without it overheating and that's without recording!") and making jokes about the overheating on the R5. Because why would you wanna make a camera more usable?! Shameful. 

[Nezza]

He said it 'for most people the overheating is actually insignificant and you'll never have to deal with it'

14 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

"I think for most people the overheating is actually really insignificant and you'll probably never have to deal with it." - Matti Haapoja at 11:55 in the video. 

I think he's going to look back and regret that comment.

[Lenscamera]

33 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I have seen 16x20 and 20x24 prints from G9 and EM1 mark 2 (20MP) and they looked amazing. Most magazines are printing 20MP photos from 1DX and A9. They look good.

Obviously if you start cropping 16MP stills from the GH2 you’ll encounter problems at 20x24 More generally, 20MP photos printed properly are more than enough for those sizes. Billboards have been printed with less. It’s all about viewing distance, printing techniques and the like.

This guy has experience and knows what he’s talking about. M43 is fine when doing slight crops of an original.

Ok, I don’t want to de-rail the topic either. But the perception that M43 isn’t capable at all is false. Obiviously having more MP is a “nice to have” but it is far from a requirement! /rant

I didn't even said I cropped the photo from the GH2, I said "The heavily crop D750 picture still look good compared to the GH2 ..." I never said M43 isn't capable. People have taken and continue to take great pictures with M43, I have taken lots of pictures with them. I just like a lot more my pictures taken with a full frame camera. Your point of printing 20MP 1DX and A9 (both full frames) that looks good and "having more MP is a “nice to have” but it is far from a requirement!" supports my point of me getting excited for the R6 (which is also 20MP)